Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member



Tweet containing a video of the fire -
Provorny, that's the second ship of Project 20385, isn't it?
With such an intense fire, i am afraid that this new ship can directly go to the scrapyard.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
Provorny, that's the second ship of Project 20385, isn't it?
With such an intense fire, i am afraid that this new ship can directly go to the scrapyard.
Given the slow pace of Russian shipbuilding, this would be a great loss. I can't help but wonder about the coincidence of this event to the Russian placement of demands with USA and NATO.
 
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kazkazkaz

New Member
Images deleted because they breach international IP and copyright rules.

@kazkazkaz I realise that you are new here. We have rules for posters and you have broken two with this post. The first is that you didn't post a link to the source for the images which breaches both copyright and Forum rules; and you didn't insert two lines of original text explaining your reasons why your posted the images. Copying and pasting of material without original input from the poster isn't acceptable.

One problem that I had with your post when I looked at it was what's it about? There's nothing to explain what the images were referring to or what what had happened. All I could see was a flash ship and then the results of a fire. What's the connection? I can guess a lot but that's all they would be, guesses and don't add to the story.

Ngatimozart
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
->Kazkazkaz,
I just wanted to welcome you and tell you to add some more than just a single image, like some comment/information and the source where you get this photo from. But Ngatimozart already did it.

Anyway at this link we can see several videos from different angles. Also a the day after video. It looks quite devastated and i am afraid it will end up like USS Bonhomme Richards LHD-6.

 
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SolarWind

Active Member
The range of Otvet, the Kalibr class anti-sub missile, will be doubled. The associated work is undergoing. The Otvet system is reported to have been recently tested in the Sea of Japan by Project 1155M Frigate Marshall Shaposnikov. The torpedo successfully hit its underwater target. The system's current characteristics are reported to be 50 km range, depth of 800 m, and 60 kg warhead.

Official video of the launch in the link below.
Otvet means "Answer" in Russian.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The range of Otvet, the Kalibr class anti-sub missile, will be doubled. The associated work is undergoing. The Otvet system is reported to have been recently tested in the Sea of Japan by Project 1155M Frigate Marshall Shaposnikov. The torpedo successfully hit its underwater target. The system's current characteristics are reported to be 50 km range, depth of 800 m, and 60 kg warhead.

Official video of the launch in the link below.
Otvet means "Answer" in Russian.
Russia seems to have made some gains in missile engine or fuel tech, since the range of X-35s and Yakhont's has all been reportedly extended. However Russia's real anti-submarine problem is the lack of modern MPAs. Even the Novella system, dated as it is, is being purchased in token quantities. There's still no new ASW helo, and the Ka-27M package leaves the ASW suite almost the same. And it's not the helo that needs to be new, it's the loadout.

Given the slow pace of Russian shipbuilding, this would be a great loss. I can't help but wonder about the coincidence of this event to the Russian placement of demands with USA and NATO.
I doubt there's any connection. Russian shipbuilders have set a number of ships on fire in recent years, including the aircraft carrier, one of the new mine trawlers, and others. It's probably the usual incompetence/poor safety practices.

EDIT: It looks like the Provorny will be getting rebuilt, as only the superstructure burned down.

 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
At last, after a failed start in 2005, the first stage of the sea trials of the Project 677 submarine Kronstadt, has begun.

Kronstadt (B-586) is the second of the Lada-class of submarines, and the third one, B-587 Velikiye Luki, is under construction.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The Novosibirsk 885M sub has entered service, along with the Knyaz Oleg 955A. The Novosibirsk will be the first Yasen-M at the Pacific fleet. The Knyaz Oleg will also go to the Pacific Fleet where it will join the Aleksandr Nevskiy and Vladimir Monomakh.

Overall the Pacific fleet is badly in need of larger blue-water vessels, both submarine and surface, so this does help, but not by much, and I can't help but wonder if it would be smarter to deploy at least 3 Yasens to one location, before starting deployment to another fleet.


EDIT: A quick overview of major warships of the Pacific Fleet, I'm leaving out the SSBNs;

4 20380 corvettes, 1 20385 corvette.
0 frigates
4 1155 destroyers including the first 1155M (1 will leave service soon for an extended upgrade)
1 956 destroyer (1 more in refit, but will likely not return)
1 1164 cruiser, upgraded and overhauled

4 949 subs (1 more out of service for refit/upgrades)
1 971 active (3 more inactive in various stages of refit)
6 877 Kilos
3 636.3 Kilos (3 more expected, 1 of the current ones in service hasn't arrived in the Far East yet)
 
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SolarWind

Active Member
Some information that Project 1155 Admiral Levchenko that last sailed in 2015 and has been in refit since, received replacement engines. It is a mystery, however, where those engines came from. They could be successfully repaired engines cannibalized from another 1155 that was less lucky.

 

SolarWind

Active Member
News of Project 1155.1 Admiral Chabanenko refit and modernization. The article mentions work will be completed and the Destroyer/Frigate will rejoin the North Fleet in two years. Apparently the engine difficulties are not as significant as thought previously.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
More information on the Project 1155.1 Admiral Chabanenko. It is currently finishing repairs near Murmansk and in January 2022 will transfer to Murmansk where modernization will start. Chabanenko will be a Tsirkon (Zirconium) missile carrier, and is expected to be able to fulfill cruiser class tasks. It will also be able to carry the Kalibr cruise missile and the "Otvet" anti-sub missile, as well as the X-35 "Uran" missiles. In late 2023, modernization is expected to complete.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
More information on the Project 1155.1 Admiral Chabanenko. It is currently finishing repairs near Murmansk and in January 2022 will transfer to Murmansk where modernization will start. Chabanenko will be a Tsirkon (Zirconium) missile carrier, and is expected to be able to fulfill cruiser class tasks. It will also be able to carry the Kalibr cruise missile and the "Otvet" anti-sub missile, as well as the X-35 "Uran" missiles. In late 2023, modernization is expected to complete.
It's planned as a modified variant of the 1155M. It will carry 16 instead of 8 X-35s, and a Pantsyr instead of the Kortik.


Also the rebuild of the burned Provorniy is estimated to be at least an extra 5 years. This probably has less to do with the length of time it takes to produce the components, and more to do with the production schedule. It's probably filled that far out.

 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
It's planned as a modified variant of the 1155M. It will carry 16 instead of 8 X-35s, and a Pantsyr instead of the Kortik.


Also the rebuild of the burned Provorniy is estimated to be at least an extra 5 years. This probably has less to do with the length of time it takes to produce the components, and more to do with the production schedule. It's probably filled that far out.

|"The main issue is the state of cables after fire. If they are in a proper state, it is possible to overhaul the corvette in five years. If they have to be replaced, the warship has to be actually built anew,” |


So its for sure that the whole superstructure needs to be removed and replaced, and probably also most electrical components.

If also the engines, electrical generators, the tubings and all wiring need to be removed and replaced, then only the hull is still the same.

In that case its maybe faster and more cost effective to build a complete new ship.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
|"The main issue is the state of cables after fire. If they are in a proper state, it is possible to overhaul the corvette in five years. If they have to be replaced, the warship has to be actually built anew,” |


So its for sure that the whole superstructure needs to be removed and replaced, and probably also most electrical components.

If also the engines, electrical generators, the tubings and all wiring need to be removed and replaced, then only the hull is still the same.

In that case its maybe faster and more cost effective to build a complete new ship.
They're talking about taking some orders away from Severnaya and redistributing to Amur and Yantar. The latter is long overdue.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Updates.

The largest drydock in Russia has completed construction at Zvezda. The second link has a proposed sketch of the dimensions, including their ability to fit the LKYa-60 and 120. There are some questions about whether it could be a candidate for the future aircraft carrier project, if it goes forward.


It appears that the Amur yards are getting some of the 22350 frigate contracts. This makes sense in principle, but I think Yantar would be a better choice. Unless they're planning a bigger series of the 11711 BDKs in which case they might already be busy. This shouldn't come as a surprise, Severnaya has had plenty of problems, and naming them as the solo supplier for 22350s, 22350Ms, and the future Lider was always a bad idea.


Another 20380, the Braviy, was laid down at the Amur yard. Handover is planned for 2025, meaning a 4 year construction cycle. It will also be a modified 20380, with the Zaslon mast. Also laid down were two 20385 corvettes, two 636.3 subs for the Pacific Fleet, and two Borey-A SLBM subs, the 9th and 10th ships of the class


The Chabanenko is undergoing an upgrade similar to the Shaposhnikov and now Vinogradov, but in the west. Among differences is the planned installation of the Pantsyr and 4 instead of 2 Uran launchers. This is a good sign and part of a pattern of shipbuilding getting split among east and west. The eastern ship-building cluster is taking shape and at this rate will be producing/upgrading all the main warship types.


The Neustrashimiy is back in service. It's still not entirely clear whether it's received X-35s or not, but the lack of news touting the improvement makes me suspect not. Which is rather strange.


A model, of the proposed Ka-65 Minoga naval helo was spotted. It's larger then the current Ka-27 family, which raises questions about compatibility with existing vessels.


Some materials on a new unmanned submersible, meant for long-range operation. Allegedly it's meant to have an anaerobic power plant, not a nuclear one.


The 22800 Tsiklon small missile ship is undergoing trials. It's meant for the Black Sea Fleet, and carries a Pantsyr SAM.




The 23900 LHDs are planned to carry two sets of mine-clearing unmanned vessels each. In principle the VMF is badly short on modern mineclearing vessels, and this isn't a bad idea. However it would make much more sense to set up the 21600 patrol ships for the role. 3 21600 are in service with the Black Sea Fleet, a 4th under trials (6 total planned). They have a dedicated spot for modular armament/equipment.


On the subject of unmanned mineclearers, footage of the VMFs Inspector Mk2s. at least 4 were delivered, all well after the advent of hostilities in Ukraine (2015 and 2017 respectively). It's unclear if more were delivered. They're operated off of the 12700 minesweepers. More then 4 have been built so far (5 in service, 1 under trials, 1 finishing construction for trials, the 7th recently launched). Another 10 are planned for order. Currently there's one per fleet, except the Black Sea Fleet that has 2.


The VMF is planning for it's own loitering munitions. Based on the images and testing recently done, it's probably one of the Lancet variants.


Range of the Bal coastal AShM has been extended to 500kms. It uses the X-35 missile, and if this improvement is applied across the board it extends the range of armament on the 20380 corvettes, the 11540 frigates, and the 1155M destroyers as well. Of course the main problem for the VMF remains not missile range, but finding the target and providing targeting.


The navalized Pantsyr was tested for defending against mass missile strikes. This is in principle nothing new for the system, it even has combat experience from a number of conflicts. Kornet ATGMs were used as targets in this case, presenting both a very small target, and an easy way to simulate many of them. Of course their flight profile doesn't really match that of AShMs.


The number of old transport vessels purchased for the Syrian express are being disposed of, likely due to their advanced age and poor state.


Some footage of Russian carrier pilots training in Saki.


A better look at the model of the modified 11711 large landing ship.


A model of a proposed Arctic supply ship has been proposed, project 15550 Husky. Allegedly up to 14000 tonns, with the ability to carry a full motor-rifle bde (unclear how accurate since it also lists the option of 30 Kamaz trucks and 1700 tonns of diesel fuel).


The second 23120 supply ship was handed over to the VMF. A total of 3 were ordered, and it's joining the Black Sea Fleet.


Production of the APR-3M anti-submarine missile meant for Ka-27M helos has begun.

 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Updates.

The largest drydock in Russia has completed construction at Zvezda. The second link has a proposed sketch of the dimensions, including their ability to fit the LKYa-60 and 120. There are some questions about whether it could be a candidate for the future aircraft carrier project, if it goes forward.


It appears that the Amur yards are getting some of the 22350 frigate contracts. This makes sense in principle, but I think Yantar would be a better choice. Unless they're planning a bigger series of the 11711 BDKs in which case they might already be busy. This shouldn't come as a surprise, Severnaya has had plenty of problems, and naming them as the solo supplier for 22350s, 22350Ms, and the future Lider was always a bad idea.


Another 20380, the Braviy, was laid down at the Amur yard. Handover is planned for 2025, meaning a 4 year construction cycle. It will also be a modified 20380, with the Zaslon mast. Also laid down were two 20385 corvettes, two 636.3 subs for the Pacific Fleet, and two Borey-A SLBM subs, the 9th and 10th ships of the class


The Chabanenko is undergoing an upgrade similar to the Shaposhnikov and now Vinogradov, but in the west. Among differences is the planned installation of the Pantsyr and 4 instead of 2 Uran launchers. This is a good sign and part of a pattern of shipbuilding getting split among east and west. The eastern ship-building cluster is taking shape and at this rate will be producing/upgrading all the main warship types.


The Neustrashimiy is back in service. It's still not entirely clear whether it's received X-35s or not, but the lack of news touting the improvement makes me suspect not. Which is rather strange.


A model, of the proposed Ka-65 Minoga naval helo was spotted. It's larger then the current Ka-27 family, which raises questions about compatibility with existing vessels.


Some materials on a new unmanned submersible, meant for long-range operation. Allegedly it's meant to have an anaerobic power plant, not a nuclear one.


The 22800 Tsiklon small missile ship is undergoing trials. It's meant for the Black Sea Fleet, and carries a Pantsyr SAM.




The 23900 LHDs are planned to carry two sets of mine-clearing unmanned vessels each. In principle the VMF is badly short on modern mineclearing vessels, and this isn't a bad idea. However it would make much more sense to set up the 21600 patrol ships for the role. 3 21600 are in service with the Black Sea Fleet, a 4th under trials (6 total planned). They have a dedicated spot for modular armament/equipment.


On the subject of unmanned mineclearers, footage of the VMFs Inspector Mk2s. at least 4 were delivered, all well after the advent of hostilities in Ukraine (2015 and 2017 respectively). It's unclear if more were delivered. They're operated off of the 12700 minesweepers. More then 4 have been built so far (5 in service, 1 under trials, 1 finishing construction for trials, the 7th recently launched). Another 10 are planned for order. Currently there's one per fleet, except the Black Sea Fleet that has 2.


The VMF is planning for it's own loitering munitions. Based on the images and testing recently done, it's probably one of the Lancet variants.


Range of the Bal coastal AShM has been extended to 500kms. It uses the X-35 missile, and if this improvement is applied across the board it extends the range of armament on the 20380 corvettes, the 11540 frigates, and the 1155M destroyers as well. Of course the main problem for the VMF remains not missile range, but finding the target and providing targeting.


The navalized Pantsyr was tested for defending against mass missile strikes. This is in principle nothing new for the system, it even has combat experience from a number of conflicts. Kornet ATGMs were used as targets in this case, presenting both a very small target, and an easy way to simulate many of them. Of course their flight profile doesn't really match that of AShMs.


The number of old transport vessels purchased for the Syrian express are being disposed of, likely due to their advanced age and poor state.


Some footage of Russian carrier pilots training in Saki.


A better look at the model of the modified 11711 large landing ship.


A model of a proposed Arctic supply ship has been proposed, project 15550 Husky. Allegedly up to 14000 tonns, with the ability to carry a full motor-rifle bde (unclear how accurate since it also lists the option of 30 Kamaz trucks and 1700 tonns of diesel fuel).


The second 23120 supply ship was handed over to the VMF. A total of 3 were ordered, and it's joining the Black Sea Fleet.


Production of the APR-3M anti-submarine missile meant for Ka-27M helos has begun.

Thanks for sharing.
The range from the Kh-35 extended from 120 to 500 km, that's a huge difference! I just wonder how they could achieve that.


According to this post the planned Project 09853 seems to be the Project 885M Ulyanovsk. Is this correctly?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Thanks for sharing.
The range from the Kh-35 extended from 120 to 500 km, that's a huge difference! I just wonder how they could achieve that.
Range on the Kh-35U was already increased to 260kms. It possibly has to do with gains in fuel technology or engine design.

According to this post the planned Project 09853 seems to be the Project 885M Ulyanovsk. Is this correctly?
I was about to say that the chart in question is horribly out of date, then I checked his blog. Navy-korabel is back after a year long hiatus, so we can once again look forward to excellent and detailed information on the status of the VMF and shipbuilding programs. And the answer to your question is yes, though personally I think this is a bad idea. I think the 885Ms are far more valuable as regular warships then as WMD carriers.
 

At lakes

Well-Known Member
ry-russian-tech-firm-unveils-new-version-of-its-submersible-patrol-ship/

About 9 or 10 months ago the Russian design tech firm Rubin put out a proposal for a submersible Patrol vessel, now they appear to have updated this design. Not sure what to think of it the design seems to make it very capable.

edit : I cocked the link up try this one

 

Gryphinator

Active Member
ry-russian-tech-firm-unveils-new-version-of-its-submersible-patrol-ship/

About 9 or 10 months ago the Russian design tech firm Rubin put out a proposal for a submersible Patrol vessel, now they appear to have updated this design. Not sure what to think of it the design seems to make it very capable.

edit : I cocked the link up try this one

I saw this on twitter last night.
Admiral Raeder approved the design :)
 

At lakes

Well-Known Member

Rubins concept of the submersible patrol vessel is not new, the RN had very heavy caliber guns on submarines in WW1 used for shore infrastructure bombardment. The French had a couple as well. Where Rubins has a small hanger aft of the sail for a small UAV etc the RN had a hanger for a small float plane as did the French and towards the end of the 2nd War the Japanese.Most of these submarines were not hugely successful and some were very dangerous. Rubins has taken the concept and modernized it with with rockets etc instead of the heavy weapons.
 
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