Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

Ananda

The Bunker Group
and while it is a good plan, and the aircraft carrier design looks great, every year we see a couple of new Russian AC-designs. And it is actually sad that it is almost 100% sure that none of them ever become reality.
True, but at least this concept is more affordable than any previous concept of CV that come. All previous one still basically using the concept from USSR era, and want to have carrier that close in parity toward US ones. This one I do see they're try to look on affordable factor.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group

This concept's quite interesting. Build several type of ships from Light Carrier (CVL), LHD, Hospital Ships, Artic Patrol Ships, and LPD using universal based platform.

The economics will be there in speedy design and standard fabrication. The design in CVL in my opinion should just omitted the dock, and make it more Light Carrier concepts. It's can be done using universal hull based design.
I saw this article at Naval News this morning. Interesting concept but little mention on the take off landing characteristics. It needs a F-35B clone IMHO. That could only come from China and China likely doesn’t want to see this capability getting more air than it is already getting in the region (SK, Japan).
 

SolarWind

Active Member

According to lenta.ru, TASS reports that construction of two LHDs began at a shipbuilding plant in Crimea ("Zaliv", Kerch) with the "formation" of hulls. Reportedly, experience gained in the construction of the Mistrals is "considered" in this project. Each ship is to displace 30k tonns, and be able to carry one thousand marines and 16 helicopters.
 
Last edited:

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

According to lenta.ru, TASS reports that construction of two LHDs began at a shipbuilding plant in Crimea ("Zaliv", Kerch) with the "formation" of hulls. Reportedly, experience gained in the construction of the Mistrals is "considered" in this project. Each ship is to displace 30k tonns, and be able to carry one thousand marines and 16 helicopters.
LHD under construction at the Zaliv shipyard....then it has to be the Project 23900 Ivan Rogov Class, right?
 

SolarWind

Active Member
LHD under construction at the Zaliv shipyard....then it has to be the Project 23900 Ivan Rogov Class, right?
That appears to be the case based on an earlier article. Apparently, it had been officially layed down, without construction progressing. I believe this has to do with unreadiness of construction documentation for the project at the time.
 
Last edited:

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
True, but at least this concept is more affordable than any previous concept of CV that come. All previous one still basically using the concept from USSR era, and want to have carrier that close in parity toward US ones. This one I do see they're try to look on affordable factor.
I think it's a terrible idea for several reasons. First off the smaller the CV, the more limitations there are on its operation. I.e. in what weather can the CV still launch aircraft? Second off, a smaller CV means more limitations on the ability to deploy things like AEW. Third off a smaller CV means the size of the airgroup shrinks dramatically and if its purpose isn't just fleet air defense but actual strikes (be it against shore or against enemy naval forces) this becomes vital. Fourth off a smaller CV, be it with a ski jump or designed for VTOL, places greater restrictions on the takeoff weights and therefore combat loads/combat ranges of the on-board aircraft. In short by going smaller you lose more then just number of aircraft. You lose a lot of your potential.

There's also the uniquely Russian problem of turbines. Russian industry can only put out a small number of gas-turbines for ships. This number will increase but realistically the frigate and destroyer programs (22350/22350M) will need all of them. A larger ship can be nuclear powered, and Russia doesn't seem to have a problem producing and operating nuclear reactors.

Finally Russia doesn't have multiple 5th generation fighters to pick from, only the Su-57. If the CV was already built there could be some logic in a deeply upgraded MiG-29K or even Su-33. But we're in the design phase. A CV being designed now will (optimistically) enter service in the second half of the 2030s. It has to have a 5th generation jet, otherwise it will be outmatched. Given the extremely high costs and lengthy development timeframes, using the Su-57 makes the most sense. Designing a light single-engine 5th gen makes less sense but still some. Designing a new VTOL from scratch (or from a YaK-141 design) makes the least sense.

In my opinion if Russia plans to operate CV (and that's a big if), it should be 2-3 large nuclear powered carriers with airgroups made up from Su-57Ks. I suspect given the pitfalls with the powerplant and design costs of a whole new jet this might even turn out to be cheaper to field (though likely not to operate) then a proposed "light" CV with a new 5-minus gen. VTOL.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The Russian Navy plans to receive 3 nuclear submarines and 3 conventional submarines this year.
- 1 Project 955A (Knyaz Oleg)
- 2 Project 885M (K-561 Kazan and K-573 Novosibirsk)
- 1 Project 636 (the Magadan)
- 2 Project 677 (B-586 Kronshtadt and B-587 Velikiye Luki)

The Kazan and Novosibirsk will be the first boats of the improved 885M version.
The original 677-design was quite a failure, so the construction of the 2nd and 3rd boats was aborted and later restarted following the redesign. Hopefully the redesigned boats will be really improvements compared to the first of class B-585 Sankt Petersburg.
 
Last edited:

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update.

Serial production of the A-192M 130mm naval gun is starting. Note this doesn't mean mass production, just that a serial (standard) technological passport is now approved. Currently the gun is only used on the two 22350 frigates. 8 more are contracted (with some already under construction) and the gun is probably going to be used on the 22350M as well.

The Admiral Golovko has also gotten its turbines installed.


The second 23120 logistical support ship is starting sea trials.


A total of 4 upgraded Lada subs are planned so far. Meanwhile the run of 636.3 subs for the Pacific Fleet is planned to be completed by 2024.


A new hospital ship design has been proposed for the VMF.


Development on the navalized Tor-M2 is continuing. The type could easily be fielded on upgraded 1155s.


The 4th 22160 patrol vessel was launched on January 29th.


The VMF is getting a new electronic 533mm torpedo. They badly need it.


The 21631 Grayvoron has entered service with the Black Sea Fleet (which now has 4 21631s).


The AVMF has gotten their second Be-200PS. This comes as the MChS has ordered two more Be-200s.


There was a lengthy discussion of maritime strike capabilities for the VMF. Here's a look at real maritime strike exercises conducted by the Black Sea Fleet. They involve the Su-30SM, Su-24M and Bal coastal AShM. There are several interesting points here. First off it appears that literally a single Su-30SM and a single Su-24M were used. Second off the air-launched AShMs are not the impressive Oniks/Yakhont or even the X-35, it's the much smaller X-31. In a pinch I suspect the BSF's sole air regiment could probably put together a strike package of 4 Su-30SMs and 4 Su-24Ms, not counting the escorts. This is more then adequate for someone like the Ukrainian VMSU but probably not enough for a potential Turkish naval force.

Third off note the Bal system which performed "electronic launches" i.e. simulated launches. The targetting was provided by its own radar. We see no sign that a UAV or MPA was used to find the targets for it. Best case scenario, it exchanged data and coordinated with the Su-30SM. The type is new enough that this might be possible.


Thought there is a small light in the darkness, the AVMF is planning to take delivery of its first Kinzhal-equipped units. They're planned for the MiG-31 equipped units at Kola and Kamchatka. The Kamchatka unit has already been taking deliveries of upgraded MiG-31s.


The R-71 Shuya small missile boat has taken delivery of a Pantsyr-S1.

 

SolarWind

Active Member
Three Russian subs simultaneously break the ice in Arctic.

Admiral Gorshkov, the lead 22350, has succesfully completed LKI "factory" trial launches of the Tsirkon hypersonic missile, and is planning to begin government trial launches in May-June.
Reportedly, the 3M22 Tsirkon (Zirconium) is a hypersonic 4-6 mach anti-ship missile, able to exceed 1000km range.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Three Russian subs simultaneously break the ice in Arctic.

Admiral Gorshkov, the lead 22350, has succesfully completed LKI "factory" trial launches of the Tsirkon hypersonic missile, and is planning to begin government trial launches in May-June.
Reportedly, the 3M22 Tsirkon (Zirconium) is a hypersonic 4-6 mach anti-ship missile, able to exceed 1000km range.
I would be much more impressed if those 3 subs conducted torpedo live fire exercises under the ice. Preferably with something other then the antiquated USET-80. The new Fizik-2 (Futlyar) or TE-2 come to mind.

I'm also hoping we will at some point get a closer look at the actual Tsirkon missile. I suspect many of the renderings that have been shown off over the past decade will turn out incorrect.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
I would be much more impressed if those 3 subs conducted torpedo live fire exercises under the ice. Preferably with something other then the antiquated USET-80. The new Fizik-2 (Futlyar) or TE-2 come to mind.
Perhaps they did, how would we know? I notice we have been getting much fewer press information about their military plans and tests than several years ago.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Perhaps they did, how would we know? I notice we have been getting much fewer press information about their military plans and tests than several years ago.
Perhaps they did, we certainly might not. But there has been a pretty persistent theme of Russian submarines not conducting enough torpedo live-fire exercises, and conducting virtually none under the ice. Some have even suggested that the reason they don't do it is because they know the outcome would be poor.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
Perhaps they did, we certainly might not. But there has been a pretty persistent theme of Russian submarines not conducting enough torpedo live-fire exercises, and conducting virtually none under the ice. Some have even suggested that the reason they don't do it is because they know the outcome would be poor.
Those are rumors, and I have a hard time believing that Russians would completely mess up a technology that's over a century old on their nuclear subs, of all things. But at the same time I would not put it past them. On the other hand, strategic subs are not supposed to do any torpedo rattling, they are supposed to hide under the ice and keep quiet. So this brings us to where we started, that is we do not know.
 
Last edited:

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Those are rumors, and I have a hard time believing that Russians would completely mess up a technology that's over a century old on their nuclear subs, of all things. But at the same time I would not put it past them. On the other hand, strategic subs are not supposed to do any torpedo rattling, they are supposed to hide under the ice and keep quiet. So this brings us to where we started, that is we do not know.
I can't help but wonder. It took the Turkish crisis in 2015 to get the VVS to start inducting large quantities of RVV-SD. I wouldn't be surprised if the VMF has even bigger problems. I have some serious suspicions that there is much truth to these rumors. Especially since there's no information to the contrary.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
It looks like someone is listening to me...


Адмирал Николай Евменов доложил Владимиру Путину, что в рамках арктической экспедиции впервые в истории российского Военно-Морского Флота выполнены:

- всплытие из-подо льда трех атомных подводных лодок в ограниченном районе радиусом 300 метров;

- полет в приполюсный район с дозаправкой в воздухе пары истребителей МиГ-31 с проходом географической точки Северного полюса;

- практическая торпедная стрельба атомной подводной лодкой из-подо льда с последующим оборудованием полыньи в точке всплытия торпеды и ее подъем на поверхность;

- тактическое учение с подразделением арктической мотострелковой бригады в сложных метеоусловиях.
The part in bold specifies that they conducted a live fire exercise under the ice, and afterwards recovered the fired torpedo for the first time. Literally the first time in the history of the Russian Navy (this could mean post-Soviet history). I'm curious about the type of torpedo used.
 

SolarWind

Active Member
It looks like someone is listening to me...

The part in bold specifies that they conducted a live fire exercise under the ice, and afterwards recovered the fired torpedo for the first time. Literally the first time in the history of the Russian Navy (this could mean post-Soviet history). I'm curious about the type of torpedo used.
More footage of this event here, including aerial refueling of mig-31 and arctic troops with their gear.
Some commenters suggest a recently launched double purpose arctic satellite may have had a role in the exercises.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Update.

Serial production of the A-192M 130mm naval gun is starting. Note this doesn't mean mass production, just that a serial (standard) technological passport is now approved. Currently the gun is only used on the two 22350 frigates. 8 more are contracted (with some already under construction) and the gun is probably going to be used on the 22350M as well.

The Admiral Golovko has also gotten its turbines installed.


The second 23120 logistical support ship is starting sea trials.


A total of 4 upgraded Lada subs are planned so far. Meanwhile the run of 636.3 subs for the Pacific Fleet is planned to be completed by 2024.


A new hospital ship design has been proposed for the VMF.


Development on the navalized Tor-M2 is continuing. The type could easily be fielded on upgraded 1155s.


The 4th 22160 patrol vessel was launched on January 29th.


The VMF is getting a new electronic 533mm torpedo. They badly need it.


The 21631 Grayvoron has entered service with the Black Sea Fleet (which now has 4 21631s).


The AVMF has gotten their second Be-200PS. This comes as the MChS has ordered two more Be-200s.


There was a lengthy discussion of maritime strike capabilities for the VMF. Here's a look at real maritime strike exercises conducted by the Black Sea Fleet. They involve the Su-30SM, Su-24M and Bal coastal AShM. There are several interesting points here. First off it appears that literally a single Su-30SM and a single Su-24M were used. Second off the air-launched AShMs are not the impressive Oniks/Yakhont or even the X-35, it's the much smaller X-31. In a pinch I suspect the BSF's sole air regiment could probably put together a strike package of 4 Su-30SMs and 4 Su-24Ms, not counting the escorts. This is more then adequate for someone like the Ukrainian VMSU but probably not enough for a potential Turkish naval force.

Third off note the Bal system which performed "electronic launches" i.e. simulated launches. The targetting was provided by its own radar. We see no sign that a UAV or MPA was used to find the targets for it. Best case scenario, it exchanged data and coordinated with the Su-30SM. The type is new enough that this might be possible.


Thought there is a small light in the darkness, the AVMF is planning to take delivery of its first Kinzhal-equipped units. They're planned for the MiG-31 equipped units at Kola and Kamchatka. The Kamchatka unit has already been taking deliveries of upgraded MiG-31s.


The R-71 Shuya small missile boat has taken delivery of a Pantsyr-S1.

What is actually the cause that the development of the A-192M wasn't smoothly?
I did not expect that from a country with decades of experience with the AK-130.

Besides that, does a 'normal' A-192 also exist (without the M)?
 

SolarWind

Active Member
Some evidence of torpedo use by subs during the recent Umka exercises.

Reportedly, this is significant because it may help thin the ice for the sub to surface.

More on this here:
 
Last edited:

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
TASS reports that the Project 09852 Belgorod special-purpose nuclear submarine will serve in the Pacific Ocean after passing state trials and commissioning.


From which i understand the Belgorod is designed to operate together with other equipment like the Project 210 Losharik, but it is unclear if the Losharik will be based too in the Pacific Fleet.
 
Last edited:
Top