Russian Army/Ground Forces Discussion and Updates

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update.

Russia has received another batch of 2S34 Mal'va SP howitzers. This is essentially a wheeled Msta, that should properly be called Msta-K or SK. Quantity is unclear, though it's likely either a battery of 6 or a btln of 18.


The TOS-3 has made it's first public appearance. It looks a lot like a TOS-1A externally but you can tell the difference by the longer rocket pack with a smaller quantity of rockets. A closer look suggests it hasn't solved the TOS-1 problem, requiring the crew to exit the vehicle and put up the support mechanism for the launch packet.


A BMD-4M with roof cage and up-armor kit. Reportedly this is now how they will be delivered. This implies the resumption of production but of course doesn't guarantee it.


Another batch of BMP-3s got handed over. The type remains a big piece of Russian efforts, and increasing production of BMPs is probably the biggest component in whether Russia can move away from Soviet stockpiles as those run dry.


In addition to extra armor kits, Russia is apparently now making Nakidka and EW standard for BMP-3M production. Note, we don't have good evidence to support the claim just yet, but the EW piece is quite likely to be true and the Nakidka is at least plausible.


The BT-3F APC on BMP-3 chassis is up for state trials. Given that it's a relatively simple vehicle it's likely to pass. However the layout looks terrible, repeating the ergonomic issues of the BMP-3 itself. And of course without extra armor kits it's protected on a level comparable to an M113, with worse ergonomics. It probably beats MT-LBs and BMP-1s converted into APCs, but it's not a great choice. I think Russia should be shifting to re-worked BMP-3 layout, namely the Manul (not Dragun). If they really want an APC, they can do it on that basis, but at that point might as well make them all IFVs. I can only guess the reason they're not doing this is that they would have to retool the production line and that would require halting production. On the flip side, I'm not sure why they can't simply build a new factory from scratch. The Manul variant existed pre-war for some time, and they've built other factories from scratch during the war.


Russian ground forces have received a batch of Planshet automated artillery systems. They link data from UAVs and counter-battery radars, and the system reportedly involves 8 Atlet MRAPs as carriers, or alternatively can be infantry carried in pelican cases. It's not clear if they're being delivered on the Atlet chassis. Curiously enough this system can apparently also work for SHORAD to coordinate information. How exactly this works is unclear. It's also not clear if this is the first batch. One source implies this is a new thing, another that this has been used in the war already.


The UMZ-G minelayer, on T-90M chassis, was seen on a trailer in Tver'. It's possible the type is going to war. Russia actively uses remote minelayers on all kinds of chassis, including jeeps, trucks, Desertcross buggies, etc.


T-62M, upgraded at the 61st Plant heading through Novokuznetsk. Despite their age and initial use as erzats artillery, they are now being used as MBTs alongside newer tanks. They're still a minority in the Russian tank fleet, but unless something changes drastically in Russian MBT production, they're here to stay for many more years.


T-72B3s also heading westward from possibly the same 61st Plant. Previously it wasn't seen working on T-72s, but of course anything is possible. Alternatively these might be tanks from line units in the Far East being sent to the front.


An interesting look at the T-14 without the exterior coverings, showing off portions of the hull and the turret.


A trail full of new T-90Ms with the new roof cage.


An interesting modification of the ERA layout to the T-72B3 upgrade.


An interesting photo of the Sokol missile, a project for a Russian barrel-launched fire and forget missile meant for upgraded tanks, and the T-14. So far the project is in OKR status, no word on progress or trials. Reportedly it retains beam-riding capability on top of other methods.


The Lipetsk plant that was originally involved in production of the S-300V hulls is now also producing Tor-M2 hulls, suggesting increased production of the type.


The Kalashnikov concern, an umbrella company, has shipped more 9M333 missiles for the Strela-10M3. This creates an interesting contrast where Russia and Ukraine are both using Strela-10M3s but Ukraine is down to old Jordanian re-exported missiles, and Russia on the other hand is using upgraded new missiles.


Russian production of Kurier unmanned ground drones is picking up. They were debuted around Berdychy west of Avdeevka, and are a volunteer project.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Russian ground forces continue to be the main focus of the war effort in Ukraine and as such they continue to receive large quantities of kit. But the war has also had negative effects, in that many more ambitious programs are put in the back burner in favor of things that can be produced quickly and in bulk. I will do a separate post about what was shown at Army-2024, both for lenth and time reasons.

For armored vehicles we have continued production of BMP-3s and T-90Ms. Not covered by reports but undoubtedly still happening in the background must be BTR-82A production, possibly the AT variant. Meanwhile tanks continue to be pulled from storage from old T-90 variants to T-62s and even T-54s sometimes. There's still no standardization there, with some going as Soviet T-62Ms or MVs, with K-1 added, others getting roof cages like the 72s and 80s, and others even getting thermal sights. T-72B3 and T-80BVM deliveries also continue, with new rubber sheeting added for protection of some sort.

During a recent Kurganmash visit we got sight of a BMD-4M batch with extra armor and a unique roof cage design. It's all being discussed as new production, including "towed guns" but Rostech in the past, but I wouldn't be surprised if these were damaged vehicles from early in the war being remanufactured or overhauled and repaired and then sent back out. If these really are new vehicles, this would be idiotic. For the current war a BMP-3M is much better then a BMD-4M. The only advantage the latter has is that it's airdroppable, which obviously isn't going to be useful here. We do have at least two separate batches delivered, but either way it's murky.

On a side-note I'm curious about the BMD-2. Russia has, in the 2000s, converted some BMD-1s into BMD-2s by simply manufacturing new turrets. If there are BMD-1s in storage, this could presumably be repeated fairly easily. One could even install 6MB-06 turrets like the BMP-1AM. They're likely not airdroppable, but that doesn't really matter. I also wonder if the spate of BMD-2s we saw in the recent fighting in Kursk might be fresh deliveries from storage.

An interesting sidenote, it appears BREM-1M production is continuing. ARVs are in short supply, especially with the balooning of the Land Forces, and the current war, so this makes sense. No word on volume, nor on whether they're remanufactured MBT hulls or new-builds. They are a war-time upgrade, carrying smoke launchers and extra ERA in addition to the regular ERA side-skirts.


Some mod'22 T-90Ms, though we've seen updated variants since then.


BMPTs keep getting spotted in small quantities at UVZ but we're not seeing them on the front anymore. It's unclear what the status of the vehicle is.


And the Bumerang is apparently still undergoing state trials. Here it is in a climate testing chamber at the 21st NIII VAT.


UVZ has apparently been testing some sort of new vehicle. Many have speculated that it's an HAPC or HIFV prototype on the T-90 chassis. Some have compared the engine noise to the T-14 and concluded that it uses the same engine. But in reality we don't have any good information, and UVZ has many strange prototypes that could be on the road for the purpose of testing some specific system with no intention of putting the vehicle in question into production. The Russian military does badly need HAPCs/HIFVs so if anything it would make sense. But sense is not always to be had.


A design for adding Kornets to the BMP-3 has shown up in the internet, and I can see some sense in being able to elevate the ATGMs, but really even adding them to the current Bahcha-U like the Berezhok does would be an improvement.


And roof cages are envisioned as a permanent fixture of armored vehicles for the forseeable future, Rostech is developing a new radar mast that is hardened and can mount through the roof cage.


More and more places are joining the new trend of manufacturing K-1 tiles in various facilities. The tiles are easy to make and can be added to basically any MBT. However the question of the filling is open.


Some of the BTR-82ATs and BMP-1AMs in Russian service are receiving frames for their 2A72 autocannon. The cannon in question is notorious for vibrations at high rates of fire, making it so that it can only be effectively used in short bursts. However this seems to be a volunteer effort rather then a centralized upgrade.


Russian ground forces have reportedly received another batch of 2S43 Mal'va howitzers, the second one (ever?). Russia currently only produced two howitzers, both self-propelled, the Msta-SM and the Mal'va, both using the Msta howitzer. Production pace of both types is very slow, and doesn't even come close to compensating for losses. Why Russia hasn't rebooted production of towed guns is beyond me especially since quantities in storage are definitely shrinking. Of course Russia hasn't even exhausted stockpiles of old SP howtizers, as witnessed by these 2S7s and 2S5s, and even 2S19s.


Meanwhile there is one category of armored vehicles Russia seeming mass produces, that's armored cars and MRAPs of various types, most notably the Typhoon family from Kamaz of which the Z-STS is in my opinion a member due to commonality in many of the armored components and design, even if the automotive part is different. We also have some Ural-VV, a pre-war MRAP for the MVD and a continuing production of the Chekan armored trucks. These were initially made for Wagner specifically but it looks like deliveries are continuing to the reguar armed forces.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
A new ground forces radar called the Irbis has show up. The first ones were reported in use by battlegroup North. The description suggests that it's more than a counter battery radar, being intended to also detect drones for friendly EW and air defenses. It's the second new counter-battery system seen in this war, the first being the Yastreb-AV. Irbis is also the name of the radar on the Su-35S fighter jets, and it's unclear if this system is in any way related.


On the UAV front Russia is upgrading the Kub series of loitering munitions. They, like the Lancet, were in limited service pre-war, but unlike the Lancet they haven't done particularly well in this war. It remains to be seen if this changes but their deliveries continue anyways.

Russia is also testing satellite guidance for UAVs, which might have a pretty substantial impact of the ability of Russia to operate them over Ukraine, especially as Ukraine's air defenses run short.

Last but not least, Belousov, Russia's new MinDef, claims Russia now produces 4000 FPV drones daily. Unclear if this is only official production or volunteer-sourced systems too.


One of the new systems that seems to be getting more common is the Kurier series of ground-based drones. These are small tracked drones that can carry a single weapon system, an EW kit, or some useful cargo. They were developed by private parties and have been getting supplied to the armed forces by donations.


Other small scale but interesting innovations include a computer for the AGS-17 and AGS-30 belt-fed grenade launchers. Reportedly they are tied into the sights and allow for accurate targetting of moving vehicles. The effectiveness of this against armored vehicles is probably low, but much of front line logistics for Ukraine uses unarmored vehicles where even a near-miss from this can cause substantial damage.


Russia is continuing to expand production of artillery and mortar shells. A new production variant of the 120mm mortar shells has started showing up.


There are reports Russia is working on a longer ranged Iskander variant, with a range of closer to 1000 kms, which would make sense given both the current war and the dismantling of many arms control treaties. Some suggest the intent is to be able to use them off of the existing TELs whichw would be wise. Repeating the Iskander-Bastion idiocy would be unfortunate.


For drone-defense Russia has been testing new systems. One is the well known 2S38 Derivatsiya, but the other two are new. One is a towed quad-machinegun array with EO guidance called Anklav (Enclave). The other is the Rapira, a MRAP-mounted machinegun system with radar guidance.


Attempts to develop an alternative to the Chinese Desertcross continue with the Plastun-TT system undergoing testing.

 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

20241015_134506.jpg

Bit outdated but I believe still relevant development. Increasing Russian MIC capacity not only to support Russian war effort, but also Increasing their export customers confidence.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member

View attachment 51915

Bit outdated but I believe still relevant development. Increasing Russian MIC capacity not only to support Russian war effort, but also Increasing their export customers confidence.
I would be really interested to see what happens with resuming T-80 production. Assuming there isn't a bottleneck in turret components, a logical version would be a T-80BVM chassis with a T-90M turret. But the public statements surrounding this talked about a Burlak type finished product. With Russian MBT losses mounting and stocks of 3rd gen MBTs shrinking it will be interesting to see which route Russia takes. The silliest would be a straight T-80BVM new build.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Assuming there isn't a bottleneck in turret components, a logical version would be a T-80BVM chassis with a T-90M turret.
Yes, that will be the logical ways as all MBT turret production already geared for T-90M. Wondering tough whether that GTD-1250 can also be adopted to T-90M chasis. That will be more straight forward adjustment.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
It's been a while since the last of these and we have some accumulated materials.

Russia is testing an unmanned Ural army truck. Note we have had work done in this direction previously iirc in cooperation with Yandex, by Kamaz.


The Kondor armored evacuator on a Kamaz chassis.


Production of armored truck cabins for Kamaz trucks. This war has seen relatively mass deployment of armored trucks for various roles but they remain a minority.


Deliveries of Chekan armored trucks continue, and the Ladoga SBA is apparently also being purchased.


Russian forces testing new armored fuel trucks. These are improvised obviously, but at a factory.


A rare Iveco Lynx at the Army-2024 forum being shown carrying evacuation equipment for damaged vehicles.


Russia's new Rapira-2 and 3 anti-drone complex on an MRAP chassis. One of them uses small rockets, the other an HMG.


Linza MEDEVAC MRAPs sighted in Leningrad MD at a local Storm unit. Production of the type continues but they're also a drop in the bucket given the scale of the conflict.


Russian companies continue to show off various possible unmanned systems, here a tracked platform, that can presumably be used for a variety of loads, and an unmanned bulldozer.


The Lipetsk Mechanical Plant (LMZ) is now confirmed to be producing armored chassis for SAMs.


Russian MGT-LB light armor vehicle at Army-2024, meant as an MT-LB replacement. It's unclear that this is necessary, since most MT-LB based vehicles were transitioning to the BMP-3 chassis.


The new BTR-22 was shown with a giant drone cage at Army-2024. This vehicle was originally called the BTR-82 improved, likely to side-step state trials requirements. We haven't heard anything about it undergoing state trials or experimental exploitation but with the current climate and lack of transparency it's unclear if this means anything. We have entire new vehicles showing up in the war zone before being accepted for service. One of the problems with this vehicle is the engine, which reportedly isn't powerful enough for the chassis.


A great look at the Bumerang and BTR-22 side by side. They're clearly different vehicles.


Meanwhile another upgrade for the current BTR-82 workhorse has been shown, with ATGMs on the turret. The line between APCs and IFVs continues to blur.


The Kornet-D1 on the BMD-4M chassis on display. A few of these vehicles were delivered pre-war, but likely none since.


The BMD-4M itself with the new additional armor kit. These have already been spotted on the front lines though the quantities remain small. While the BMD-4M is suboptimal for the current war, it's certainly superior to most light armor vehicles on the front line from both sides.


BTR-MDM deliveries also continue. Note the pile of links represents at least two separate deliveries.


The latest BMP-1AM variant with extra armor, EW, and a roof cage. While the BMP-1 is badly outdated this variant makes it at least somewhat relevant. Some sources indicate this vehicle carries the Metis ATGM. However this system isn't mounted on the vehicle, rather it's a system to be used by the infantry when they dismount. Given the above BTR-82A with ATGM, presumably the same could be done to the BMP-1AM, they share the 6MB-06 turret.


BMP-3 deliveries continue.


A look at production of BMP-3s and BMD-4Ms. Russia has been delivering approximately one btln set (31 vehicles) of BMP-3s per month. If the pattern shown here, 10 BMD-4Ms for 21 BMP-3Ms, holds then we're looking at ~120 of them per year, which is a lot in peacetime, but very little given the burn rates of this war. Continued claims of increased production are so far unsubstantiated unless there's a lot happening that we somehow don't see.


BMP-2M and BMD-4M with extra armor kits heading to the front.


A rare Veer-P artillery command vehicle on the BMP-3 chassis sighted being taken somewhere.


A BMD-3 seen heading somewhere in Russia. Note less then 100 of these were every made and many were converted into CBRN recon vehicles for the VDV.


A healthy persons BMP-2. It's got the Berezhok turret, the extra armor and cage kit, and a roof cage. By the standards of this war it's a modern vehicle. Except all of this has been available since at least 2005. With better planning Russian ground forces could have modernized a substantial chunk of their BMP-2 fleet long before this war.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
A new camera mount for tank commanders is being tested. It's unclear how exactly this improves on existing tank commander's sights.


Russia showed off a new BREM-1 and a BREM-80U variant both with ERA, smoke launchers and anti-drone cages.


A nice video of the T-80BVM upgrade line in OTM. We can see the giant new roof cages and rubber leaves in the tanks leaving the factory in the end.


Reportedly the first contract for T-90Ms with Arena-M was signed at Army-2024 and at least one T-90M was spotted on the conveyor at UVZ with what looks like Arena installed. It's unclear how effective this system will be on a battlefield dominated by drones and with top attack munitions in play.


We also have some footage of a T-72B3 with Arena-M installed.


We have some sightings of new T-72B3 mod'24s with the rubber leaves, and T-90Ms with the same.


A T-90 variant in UVZ hands. Either it's a rare Russian T-90A or a Vietnamese T-90S.


A look at the UVZ conveyor shows much the same, many T-72B3s, some T-90Ms.


Russia has had issues with side-mounted ERA for a while, and is now using chains to secure them.


Russia delivered captured Leopard and Abrams tanks to the UVZ factory.


Russian tank training now involves learning how to drive turtle-tanks. A relevant skill no doubt.


Another look at the unmanned D-30 variant that Russia has been testing. It's mounted on an unmanned tractor and has a magazine of 4 shells. I think it's questionable that they're using the D-30 for this. As a tech demo, ok, but for the production variant this is unsuitable.


The 120mm Floks gun-mortar system continues to be shown off at arms shows. It's unclear why it's not being produced for the armed forces. Russian troops on the front line have been contorting themselves into weird shapes to make their 120mm mortars more mobile, including mounting them on the backs of trucks. A system like this, and on an armored chassis, would be very useful, in whatever quantities could be acquired.


The 2S42 Lotos is starting state trials. This is essentially an upgraded Vena on a BMD-4M chassis for the VDV. No word on why the Vena itself isn't being produced for the ground forces.


TOS-1A deliveries continue. Despite the TOS-2 being in production, and the TOS-3 which is also an MBT chassis being shown off, the TOS-1A is still being built.


A look at new TOS-1A and TOS-2 with anti-drone cages.


A new Russian artillery system has shown up in the war. It was presented as footage of the Mal'va but observers immediately spotted that it uses a Giatsint artillery piece. It's also claimed to have a range of 50kms with guided artillery shells, which is possible with the more powerful Giatsint artillery system. Note there isn't an immediate explanation for this. Best case, Russia has decided to restart Giatsint production to improve the range of artillery systems. The worst case scenario is that Russia wasn't producing the Msta artillery pieces for the Mal'va and isn't producing the Giatsint artillery system either, and is instead converting legacy towed guns into this. There is some evidence that this system is a towed Giatsint placed on the Voschina armored truck chassis however there's just too little information to say anything for certain. It's even possible that the Mal'va howitzers are newbuilds but the Giatsint variants are conversions.


Another look at newly produced Russian artillery shells that shows Russia is producing shells identical to Chinese ones but with Russian markings. I suspect Russia purchased an entire production line in China.


The Mikhailov artillery academy training students on the new Mal'va howitzer.


Russian artillery units will now include the Lancet units which up until now were formed in various other units. It appears Lancet loitering munitions will be utilized in conjuction with the artillery recon UAVs.


Russian inflatable decoys being shown at the arms show. Note they're probably already obsolete with the improved camera quality of modern drones.


The former LNR and DNR Army Corps have been reformatted into Combined Arms Armies. The DNR forces are now the 51st CAA, and the LNR forces are the 3rd CAA.


Russia is creating new forces of UAVs as an organizational structure. It won't be in charge of all UAV units like the Artillery Forces aren't in charge of all artillery. But it will mean some way to organize and standardize UAV usage, and systematize actual use experience.


Russian ground forces have been receiving SVCh designated marksman rifles to replace the ubiquitous and at this point legendary SVD.


Russian troops in South MD training with shotguns against UAVs. Note the shotguns they're using aren't standardized. There is currently a common practice of purchasing many models of shotguns on the civilian market.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update.

2 updated versions of the Z-STS MRAP are supposed to enter production. One will be a slightly modified version of the current one, the other will use a Kamaz Mustang chassis, suggesting an overall increase in output volume. The Z-STS is a war-time vehicle whose production was a response to the needs of this war. While it's not a great vehicle for assaulting enemy positions, for UAV teams, front-line logistics, and other units that have to operate near and on the front-line it's a good option.


A batch of new guntrucks, converted from trucks by Chechenavto, handed over to Russian forces.


A look at the Titan MRAP, which looks a lot like a modification of the Kamaz Tayfun 4X4, though it's possible that it's a similar armored hull on a different chassis.


The new Russian self-propelled howitzer with a Giatsint 2A36 cannon on a BAZ Voschina armored truck chassis now has an official name. It's the 2S44 Giatsint-K. This is a very logical name. It has two advantages. There are a good number of Giatsint-B towed guns in storage to convert. And it's a higher power artillery piece of longer range then the Msta family. Some reports claim that with guided Krasnopol'-M shells it can reach 50 km ranges.


Russia's artillery academy shows off their 2S43 and 2S44 howitzers.


New Kornet variants displayed recently. One features a UGV platform that can be by cable or by radio signal with 3 missiles. The other is a more basic remote control static variant with a single munition.


A new Russian guided weapon called Solist is under development. It seems to be somewhere half way between a loitering munition and a guided missile.


An interesting sighting at the UVZ factory that involves a T-72B3 either on a T-90M chassis or with a Relikt module installed. My personal guess is that this is a T-72A getting the T-72B3 treatment, and the Relikt is added to the hull to improve protection levels.


Another piece of footage from the recent UVZ footage shows a mystery vehicle.


Also from the recent UVZ visit, the T-90M with Arena, and claims that they are now putting out T-72B3s and T-90Ms with Arena. To me the absence of a roof cage is suspicious. It doesn't look like a production vehicle.


A T-14 transmission spotted in one of the halls of UVZ.


Recently GABTU put out some interesting materials. First off there's an interview where they talk about the evolution of tank sheds, indicating more robust shed-shells but turret mounted are coming. Second-off they show a tank they call the T-72B3A. They show it side by side with a T-72B3 mod'24 with Arena, and don't label them the same. I think they're upgrading T-72As with a modified version of the T-72B3 package. They showed the BMP-2M with the same protection package upgrade, small roof cage, and turret upgrades. They also showed a BREM-80, a ARV on the T-80 chassis. It's not the worst idea, but the chassis isn't in production currently.


A look at the T-80BVM mod'24. Note the rubber leaves, and robust turret cage that also covers the engine compartment.


Right before the new year Russian ground forces got another batch of T-90M and T-72B3.


BMP-3M and BTR-82A deliveries continue. Both are probably going to remain the main-stay for motor-rifle units augmented by increasing quantities of MRAPs and other light-armored vehicles.


Devlieries of the Kurier UGV also continue. It started as a very small grass roots project but it seems to have some staying power.


A look at the Krona-E SAM Russia is displaying. It's clearly a combination of the Sosna module with upgraded Strela missiles. Russia has been fielding upgraded Strela missiles that can hit even fairly small UAVs, though the cost trade-off can't possibly be good.

 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
Is there any information on the different types of Russian tanks and their age being brought back into service being a production issue it could certainly be very labor intensive
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Is there any information on the different types of Russian tanks and their age being brought back into service being a production issue it could certainly be very labor intensive
There is information. What specifically are you looking for? Russia has been pulling large numbers of T-80BV and B back into service, some fielded as BVs, some upgraded under the BVM program. Russia has been pulling T-72B and A variants, with the B variants mostly going through the B3 upgrade program, the As have mostly gone as is, some getting K-1 tiles making them a sort of T-72AV. Russia produces engines, cannons, and FCS, for both the T-72 and T-80 tank family so restoring those to service isn't that hard. T-62s are being restored to service at the 61st Armored Repair Plant. These are significantly older. Some are being upgraded with K-1 tiles and with thermals, some are not. This program was first activated to send some T-62Ms to Syria and to Khaftar's forces in Libya, though the tanks they got had no upgrades. Lastly Russia is pulling T-55/54s out of storage in small quantities. Note most of Russia's old T-55/54 fleet went to scrap so the numbers available are actually smaller then the T-72 and T-80 tanks. I don't know which factory does these, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same 61st plant.

As far as the process being labor intensive, I suspect that's the case, but I've only seen comments about it with regards to the T-72B3 program at UVZ, where some observers have argued that this is poor use of the factory as disassembling and rebuilding old tanks is suboptimal, and that work should be handed off to armored repair plants, while UVZ should exclusively produce new tanks. To be fair, it's not clear how accurate this is, and for some reason I don't see any similar arguments being made about OTM. It's also not the older tanks in question, so I'm not sure if that's what you were looking for.
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
My question was not to argue against this but leaving equipment out in the open open to the elements for decades led me to think addressing some of the issues this could cause would make restoration difficult whether as you say bring them into a armoured repair plant would you bring in those of a certain type as a priority and attempt to simplify the process than having different types all at once , I am not aware if there are reports on the challenges faced with this restoration program ,how many people involved it would not surprise if there were more involved than actually man them ,certainly many of the tanks deployed seem to have additional "covering" going into action as many of these tanks can sustain serious damage during action are they then brought back to their original refurbishment plant or forward bases for adhoc repair
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
My question was not to argue against this but leaving equipment out in the open open to the elements for decades led me to think addressing some of the issues this could cause would make restoration difficult whether as you say bring them into a armoured repair plant would you bring in those of a certain type as a priority and attempt to simplify the process than having different types all at once , I am not aware if there are reports on the challenges faced with this restoration program ,how many people involved it would not surprise if there were more involved than actually man them ,certainly many of the tanks deployed seem to have additional "covering" going into action as many of these tanks can sustain serious damage during action are they then brought back to their original refurbishment plant or forward bases for adhoc repair
I'm sure restoration of some of these vehicles is difficult. I would point your attention to the fact that Russia scrapped thousands of in-storage tanks between 2005 and 2020. I suspect many of the worst-condition tanks were scrapped. I have not seen reports of these challenges, so we don't have good details on this. As for it being harder to restore them then to man them (and by man I assume you mean provide crew) this is certainly the case. For ad-hoc repairs it's a mix. Russia has repair btlns and repair companies that work on fixing damaged vehicles, and I've posted photos from these units in some updates. If the damage is more substantial they might go to a rear area repair base, and for even more damaged vehicles they might have to go back to the factory. As it stands there were some reports that Russia is accumulating a pile of war-damaged vehicles over 1000 armored vehicles deep that are not currently undergoing repairs but could be repaired in the future, which suggests to me that the factories prioritize getting vehicles out of storage into working order with or without upgrades over repairing battle-damaged vehicles.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Meanwhile Russia's first Arena-M equipped tanks are now on the front lines. If they're prepared to deal with FPV drones, that will certainly adjust things. If they're not, deploying them is a sign of institutional incompetence. Assuming they at least intend them to work that way, we might get a good first had look at the interaction between an APS and a robust drone threat.
It appears we have our answer. Russia's newest Arena-M variant can engage targets from above. Here are videos of top and side intercepts in action. Some might point out that the angle doesn't represent what a top-attack ATGM like an NLAW would come at. But I don't think it's meant for them anyways. I think this is meant to intercept FPV drones as the far more significant threat on the Ukrainian battlefield.


We also have another look at the T-90M with Arena. Note the previous showing was incomplete, the full variant carries the anti-munitions on top of the turret at various angles.

 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
It appears we have our answer. Russia's newest Arena-M variant can engage targets from above. Here are videos of top and side intercepts in action. Some might point out that the angle doesn't represent what a top-attack ATGM like an NLAW would come at. But I don't think it's meant for them anyways. I think this is meant to intercept FPV drones as the far more significant threat on the Ukrainian battlefield.


Can the APS hit slow flying drones? The fibreoptics especially come in slow and with precision, will the Arena-M be able to detect and set off for something at that slow a speed?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Can the APS hit slow flying drones? The fibreoptics especially come in slow and with precision, will the Arena-M be able to detect and set off for something at that slow a speed?
Unclear. Presumably it would, deploying it otherwise, and testing it against threats from above would be kind of pointless. But we will probably have to wait for footage from the front lines. Also, I know they will lose some of these tanks. The drone threat is so great that they will overwhelm the defenses. So we will have the additional difficulty when the first footage of one getting hit shows up of figuring out if this is after it expended it's Arena-M munitions or if they failed to work.
 
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