Russian Army/Ground Forces Discussion and Updates

[alexkvaskov]

Do the VDV carry ATGMs and RPGs as part of their TO&E? Also, how does the VVS intend to air drop paratroops into potentially contested airspace against a hostile air force and GBAD?

 

[Feanor]

Do the VDV carry ATGMs and RPGs as part of their TO&E?

Yes. Actually one of the big arguments in favor of the BMD-4M is the tube-launched ATGM capability. There was a specific instance during the Georgian war where VDV officers claimed they chose not to engage the Georgians, because their ATGMs were old and unreliable.

But yes they carry both.

Also, how does the VVS intend to air drop paratroops into potentially contested airspace against a hostile air force and GBAD?

They don't?

I mean that's a loaded question. It's like asking: how do you plan to survive after jumping naked into an erupting volcano?

All the airborne assault operations in recent conflicts have been primarily in areas with no enemy airspace control assets. The main way airborne assaults are conducted by the VDV these days is with helos. Which is why there is a big argument that they shouldn't even be getting air-droppable vehicles, and instead should use regular next-gen platforms, maybe slightly optimized for being transported by air. But the VDV has enough lobbying power, and independence, to push through the acquisition of the unique BMD-4M chassis as a basis for their future vehicles. They've even in the works to produce a new light tank on the BMD-4M chassis. So something like the Sprut-SD but more modern.

 

[Nick underscore]

Well the VDV is getting a small bucket of new vehicles. They're testing the first batch of 8 BMD-4M right now. Next year they're set to received 64 BMD-4M, and ~20 BTR-MDM. They're also getting an air-droppable version of the Tigr armored car. It's a testament to their lobbying power that they can opt out of the entire next generation of armored vehicles program.

All the airborne assault operations in recent conflicts have been primarily in areas with no enemy airspace control assets. The main way airborne assaults are conducted by the VDV these days is with helos. Which is why there is a big argument that they shouldn't even be getting air-droppable vehicles, and instead should use regular next-gen platforms, maybe slightly optimized for being transported by air. But the VDV has enough lobbying power, and independence, to push through the acquisition of the unique BMD-4M chassis as a basis for their future vehicles.

They certainly do indeed

With apparent discussions back in 12/13', it announced last week that VDV will double in size to 72k troops. Huge increases in vehicles (BMD-4M and BTR-MD/BTR-D3's) and combat drones.
Russia 'to double' size of airborne forces - IHS Jane's 360

Some quotes not provided by Janes - ITAR-TASS Experts opinions: Russia to create rapid reaction force as relations with West get strained

Interestingly the previous Russian Defmin Anatoly Serdyukov, wanted to half the size of the 35k strong VDV..

What's the current contract manning levels across VDV?

Impressive if this comes to fruition.

 

[alexkvaskov]

The VDV supposedly has a high rate of kontraktnik manning, well above 50%. To be perfectly honest, I would rather see new kontraktniks being directed to the SV-land forces as opposed to the VDV, they need it more.

 

[alexkvaskov]

They don't?

I mean that's a loaded question. It's like asking: how do you plan to survive after jumping naked into an erupting volcano?

Yes, I understand that the VVS and VDV have seen action primarily against foes with little to no GBAD. I guess what I'm trying to ask is, does the VDV ever keep in mind or train for drops against opponents with relatively strong IADS?

For instance, how would the VDV react (as the nation's primary QRF) to a crisis situation in an area with IADS strong enough to pose a threat to drops? I imagine the VVS would first conduct a SEAD/DEAD campaign..

 

[wsb05]

Yes, I understand that the VVS and VDV have seen action primarily against foes with little to no GBAD. I guess what I'm trying to ask is, does the VDV ever keep in mind or train for drops against opponents with relatively strong IADS?
For instance, how would the VDV react (as the nation's primary QRF) to a crisis situation in an area with IADS strong enough to pose a threat to drops? I imagine the VVS would first conduct a SEAD/DEAD campaign..

well... no such opponent exists in potential conflict zones on the borders of russia.
What little defences they have may be neutralized quickly by a preventive strike.

 

[TankovayaVoyska]

well... no such opponent exists in potential conflict zones on the borders of russia.
What little defences they have may be neutralized quickly by a preventive strike.

Even so, would it not be prudent to at the very least practice SEAD against such targets? You can never be prepared enough.

 

[TankovayaVoyska]

Will the Morskaya Pekhota be getting any upgrades? Not just IFVs, tanks etc, but does the Russian government have any plans to give the Naval Infantry similar projection powers to that of the USMC? ie expeditionary ships, carriers, etc. And as a tangent to that, will there be any plans to revive the Project OREL supercarrier?

 

[Waylander]

Georgia managed to shoot down several russian combat planes. I wouldn't have wanted to jump into South Ossetia or Georgia.

Crisises tend to emerge quick and sudden. A preemptive strike may not be feasible very often. But as they are light airmobile forces they may as well get flown close to the operational area and use their organic motor and mech assets to cover the rest of the way. You get at least some critical mass to the frontline to buy some time for the heavy forces to arrive.

Look at OP Desert Shield and the US Airborn Infantry used to cover Saudi soil before heavier forces could be brought to the theater.

 

[Feanor]

Yes, I understand that the VVS and VDV have seen action primarily against foes with little to no GBAD. I guess what I'm trying to ask is, does the VDV ever keep in mind or train for drops against opponents with relatively strong IADS?

For instance, how would the VDV react (as the nation's primary QRF) to a crisis situation in an area with IADS strong enough to pose a threat to drops? I imagine the VVS would first conduct a SEAD/DEAD campaign..

They're right now having exercises where they're dropping 3k troops, and prior to the drop they're using Su-34s, and all models of attack helos, to clear the landing zone.

Will the Morskaya Pekhota be getting any upgrades? Not just IFVs, tanks etc, but does the Russian government have any plans to give the Naval Infantry similar projection powers to that of the USMC? ie expeditionary ships, carriers, etc. And as a tangent to that, will there be any plans to revive the Project OREL supercarrier?

Not the correct thread, but I'll answer. The Marines are getting a new amphibious assault vehicle to replace the BTR-80s eventually, but in the meanwhile they're getting BTR-82As, UAVs, and they're the ones testing the Platforma-M unmanned ground combat platforms. They will get the Mistrals for force projection, and there is a new aircraft carrier project on paper, but no decision has been made. It would make little sense to build a carrier, before you even have a modern destroyer to escort it. I would keep your eyes on OKR Lider as it progresses. Once they can reasonably produce modern destroyers, they will probably evaluate their financial and technical situation with regards to a new carrier.

They certainly do indeed

With apparent discussions back in 12/13', it announced last week that VDV will double in size to 72k troops. Huge increases in vehicles (BMD-4M and BTR-MD/BTR-D3's) and combat drones.
Russia 'to double' size of airborne forces - IHS Jane's 360

Some quotes not provided by Janes - ITAR-TASS Experts opinions: Russia to create rapid reaction force as relations with West get strained

Interestingly the previous Russian Defmin Anatoly Serdyukov, wanted to half the size of the 35k strong VDV..

What's the current contract manning levels across VDV?

Impressive if this comes to fruition.

The 45th SpN VDV Regiment is being upgraded to a brigade, and all the divisions are getting a third regiment, and their recon companies are being turned into recon btlns. So they're becoming much more significant, not less.

 

[Feanor]

The tank biathlon. China is using their Type-96, and Russia is using the T-72B3 modernized. The rest are using T-72B1.

bmpd - "

I think the original idea was to have countries bring quite a few of their own tanks, meaning the T-72B3M would be on par with some of the more modern machines out there, with only the small and poor countries using the T-72B1s. But because of low turnout, and nobody bringing their own tanks, the majority of countries are using the T-72B1. At least time the color scheme doesn't look as idiotic.

 

[Nick underscore]

The 45th SpN VDV Regiment is being upgraded to a brigade, and all the divisions are getting a third regiment, and their recon companies are being turned into recon btlns. So they're becoming much more significant, not less.

Yes, that's why I posted the update to the VDV. Impressive increase - as I said

 

[wsb05]

Georgia managed to shoot down several russian combat planes. I wouldn't have wanted to jump into South Ossetia or Georgia.

Crisises tend to emerge quick and sudden. A preemptive strike may not be feasible very often. But as they are light airmobile forces they may as well get flown close to the operational area and use their organic motor and mech assets to cover the rest of the way. You get at least some critical mass to the frontline to buy some time for the heavy forces to arrive.

Look at OP Desert Shield and the US Airborn Infantry used to cover Saudi soil before heavier forces could be brought to the theater.

Many things changed and will continue to do so in favour of the Russian airforce compared to their supposed opponents. There are electronic warfare equipment now and su 34s in increasing numbers.

 

[bdique]

Many things changed and will continue to do so in favour of the Russian airforce compared to their supposed opponents. There are electronic warfare equipment now and su 34s in increasing numbers.

I don't think it is fair to simply assume that Russian military developments will always keep them ahead of their adversaries, although I acknowledge that Russia does produce capable combat platforms. There is also the matter of good training (for paratroopers and commanders alike), and sufficient logistics support to the combat units when conducting missions over long distances. I am curious to know how these will be addressed as the VDV expands.

 

[Feanor]

A closer look at the new Kamaz single-body MRAP.

Защищённый автомобиль КамÐЗ-63969 «Тайфун»

And a new Land Forces SAM, a Strela-10 replacement. It's called the Sosna-U and it's meant as a last line of defense against PGMs and helicopters. It has a range of 1-10 kms. A combat load of 12 missiles, with a reload time of 12 minutes. It carries TV and IR cameras for guidance. It can simultaneously track 50 targets.

I'd like to see if it can protect an armored column on the march from a mass PGM strike.

Gur Khan attacks!:

 

[Knjaz]

Interesting how the browser still remembers my username/password, didn't log for a while...

Anyway,
Депутат: раÑходы на оборону в РФ в 2015 году увеличатÑÑ Ð½Ð° треть | РИРÐовоÑти

Next year, Russian military spendings will be increased by 31%. Despite all the comments by official/public figures (like, Duma deputy), it was publicly known several years ago that large-scale deliveries of military hardware were to begin in 2015. Glad to see they still managed to find the resources to go forward with the rearmament.

 

[Feanor]

Interesting how the browser still remembers my username/password, didn't log for a while...

Anyway,
Депутат: раÑходы на оборону в Ð*Ф в 2015 году увеличатÑÑ Ð½Ð° треть | Ð*ИРÐовоÑти

Next year, Russian military spendings will be increased by 31%. Despite all the comments by official/public figures (like, Duma deputy), it was publicly known several years ago that large-scale deliveries of military hardware were to begin in 2015. Glad to see they still managed to find the resources to go forward with the rearmament.

It's insane, and ultimately unnecessary. If they weren't playing expensive games, and running too many parallel programs, they could still re-arm to a set of unified platforms, without needing this overspending.

Meanwhile, new robots for the VDV, planned for experimental airdrops. The goal is to see whether they can paradrop robots into an area.

ЧаÑтный руÑÑкий жуѻ - РоÑÑийÑкие Ñухопутные военные роботы учатÑÑ Ð¿Ñ€Ñ‹Ð³Ð°Ñ‚ÑŒ

 

[CheeZe]

The tank biathlon. China is using their Type-96, and Russia is using the T-72B3 modernized. The rest are using T-72B1.

bmpd - "

I think the original idea was to have countries bring quite a few of their own tanks, meaning the T-72B3M would be on par with some of the more modern machines out there, with only the small and poor countries using the T-72B1s. But because of low turnout, and nobody bringing their own tanks, the majority of countries are using the T-72B1. At least time the color scheme doesn't look as idiotic.

fftopic
I know it's old but hilarious to see Chinese tanks with all the 8s on them. Luckiest number in Chinese numerology, followed by 2. Am assuming then that Tank 808 was their flagship with the best crew since it has two #8s. Where was this held?

 

[Feanor]

fftopic
I know it's old but hilarious to see Chinese tanks with all the 8s on them. Luckiest number in Chinese numerology, followed by 2. Am assuming then that Tank 808 was their flagship with the best crew since it has two #8s. Where was this held?

Alabino, a tank-ground 60 kms from Moscow.

 

[Feanor]

Some updates. A new Motor-Rifle Brigade is being formed in West MD, near Elnya, Smolensk region. It will take the place of the disbanded 144th Motor-Rifles Division that was there back in the 90s.

bmpd -

An example of a new electro-optic for Russian infantry, developed by a Scientific Company of the Russian military (i.e. conscripts that have a science background).

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Прицел

Special assault units will be formed out of Land Forces combat engineers. These will likely be CQB specialists.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - О штурмовых подразделениÑÑ…

There are now 5 Iskander-M Brigades, and it appears that the same TELs are used for ballistic and cruise missiles.

bmpd -

The Bumerang APC program is behind schedule and the APCs will not participate in the May 9th parade. The Armata program is, however, on track and will be there.

Ðовейший роÑÑийÑкий бронетранÑпортер не Ñможет учаÑтвовать в параде 9 маÑ
ПроизводÑтво новейших роÑÑийÑких танков Ðрмата идет по плану

Interesting photos from a BTG of the 5th Tank Brigade. Note the combat optic on the rifle. It's different from the rifle combat optic that Pafic Fleet Marines were recently spotted with (155th MarBde) but the pattern is unmistakable. The Russian military is in the process of providing rifle combat optics to regular infantry units on a mass scale. The second link is from the 155th MarBde, where you can see the optic they have, in use.

bmpd -

And the Sprut-SD Self-Propelled anti tank gun (air-droppable light tank really) is being upgraded and unified with the BMD-4M. How is unclear, given that it has a completely different chassis. The article mentions the suspension, powerplant, and drive train.

Берлога Бронемедведа - "Спрут-М" модернизируют и унифицируют