Russian Army/Ground Forces Discussion and Updates

[Feanor]

I saw that, their both workhorses in the battlefield..

Is the Pantsir-S1 the future replacement for the Tunguska?

There is a Pantsyr-SV variant being developed, on tracks, to theoretically replace the Tunguska. However right now the armed forces have been buying small batches of Tunguska-M1s, slowly replacing their Shilkas.

 

[Comrade69]

There is a Pantsyr-SV variant being developed, on tracks, to theoretically replace the Tunguska. However right now the armed forces have been buying small batches of Tunguska-M1s, slowly replacing their Shilkas.

I see, off topic again but what are the top 10 SPAAGs in the world? Based off of everyone's personal opinion obviously

 

[Bonza]

I see, off topic again but what are the top 10 SPAAGs in the world? Based off of everyone's personal opinion obviously

Not only is it off topic but it's really not the most appropriate topic for the forums bearing in mind that "x vs y" type posts are against the rules (and such a discussion would essentially come down to that). Leave top 10 lists for other places, they're entirely too subjective an approach for these forums.

 

[Feanor]

Some interesting new info. The Russian military has taken delivery of their first combat unmanned ground systems. The Platforma-M is a small tracked robot armed with 4 RPG tubes, and a PKM machinegun. No detailed info is available, but the robot was tested in the recent past together with the Tayfun-M security vehicle for the RVSN, so I assumed that's where it would go. However right now the first batch of them is in Kaliningrad.

Ð’ Калининграде покажут новейшие роботизированные комплекÑÑ‹ «Платформа-М»
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=217943&d=1398708890

 

[surpreme]

Some interesting new info. The Russian military has taken delivery of their first combat unmanned ground systems. The Platforma-M is a small tracked robot armed with 4 RPG tubes, and a PKM machinegun. No detailed info is available, but the robot was tested in the recent past together with the Tayfun-M security vehicle for the RVSN, so I assumed that's where it would go. However right now the first batch of them is in Kaliningrad.

Ð’ Калининграде покажут новейшие роботизированные комплекÑÑ‹ «Платформа-М»
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=217943&d=1398708890

Impresive the Russian forces step up it game especially in the Crimea area. I would like know can Russia still produce it weapons if Europe do a total embargo on it defense? Also I'm hearing from a lot of defense analysis that Russia Regular Army is bad and would be destroyed by US/NATO forces. I don't think that the case but I don't know the Russia training doctrine.

 

[Feanor]

Impresive the Russian forces step up it game especially in the Crimea area. I would like know can Russia still produce it weapons if Europe do a total embargo on it defense? Also I'm hearing from a lot of defense analysis that Russia Regular Army is bad and would be destroyed by US/NATO forces. I don't think that the case but I don't know the Russia training doctrine.

In the defense industry Russian reliance on imported components is fairly low. Most of the weapon systems Russia produces would still be produced the same way with little to no difficulty in the face of western sanctions.

However the Russian Military is not what you saw in Crimea. The units used in Crimea were elite units, predominantly recon and special forces. Their equipment, discipline, and training, are far superior to that of the regular units. Also they were conducting primarily a show of force, with some use of non-lethal force against a demoralized, disorganized, and poorly trained adversary. All things considered the operation was well planned and well executed but does not reflect the state of affairs in the Russian military more broadly.

 

[surpreme]

In the defense industry Russian reliance on imported components is fairly low. Most of the weapon systems Russia produces would still be produced the same way with little to no difficulty in the face of western sanctions.

However the Russian Military is not what you saw in Crimea. The units used in Crimea were elite units, predominantly recon and special forces. Their equipment, discipline, and training, are far superior to that of the regular units. Also they were conducting primarily a show of force, with some use of non-lethal force against a demoralized, disorganized, and poorly trained adversary. All things considered the operation was well planned and well executed but does not reflect the state of affairs in the Russian military more broadly.

Okay I see Thanks for the information. Overall the regular army could use a little more spicing up.

 

[Feanor]

Some interesting materials. A BTR-82 with a new combat module was seen. The new module appears to be a non-inhabited turret with a 30mm autocannon, 30mm grenade launcher, and 7.62 machinegun. The optics look interesting and might be new, but I have no information at this time.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - БТÐ*-82Ð1
bmpd -

There is a nice gallery of various photos from the recent army vehicle show at Bronnitsy. Note the large number of remote weapon stations.

Показ Ñовремнных образцов автомобильной техники руководÑтву Минобороны. Полигон 3 ЦÐИИ МО Ð*Ф г. Бронницы 29 Ð¼Ð°Ñ 2014 года | Еженедельник «Во

At the same event a new Kamaz Tayfun variant, probably the chassis for the truck-mounted Koalitsiya variant.

КÐÐœÐЗ продемонÑтрировал новое шаÑÑи 8Ñ…8 под шифром "Торнадо"

Finally a new T-72 variant with a panoramic sight. These tanks will be used by the Russian team in the tank biathlon. But this probably a precursor of what will appear on the T-72B4 variant. There is also a new 1140 hp engine.

Gur Khan attacks!:
Gur Khan attacks!:

 

[Waylander]

The T-72s need some serious FCS upgrades and not just a new panoramic sight. The firing results of the last tank biathlon were horrible...

I would have thought that specially trained crews in near perfect conditions could have gotten more hits than what we have seen.

 

[Feanor]

The T-72s need some serious FCS upgrades and not just a new panoramic sight. The firing results of the last tank biathlon were horrible...

I would have thought that specially trained crews in near perfect conditions could have gotten more hits than what we have seen.

These tanks have entirely new FCS. The first tank biathlon used T-72B and B1 tanks. These are T-72B3 tanks with the FCS and optics from the T-90. They're further upgraded with a new panoramic sight. They've been upgrading the T-72s with the T-90 FCS and sights, since 2011. There's several hundred of those tanks at this point.

 

[Waylander]

Ah, thanks for the info!

So hopefully their performance increases considerably next time.

 

[Feanor]

Ah, thanks for the info!

So hopefully their performance increases considerably next time.

Well it's basically cheating, since a lot of the contestants will be using ordinary T-72B tanks provided by Russia, because they decided not to bring their own tanks. A few countries will be bringing their own machines, but the Russian team will have a definite advantage in hardware over anyone using the regular T-72Bs, and not just the FCS or optics but the significantly more powerful engine. Khopotov already dubbed them "sport-tanks" because it's a small batch for the biathlon.

But it would be nice to see this upgrade package on all serial T-72s.

To be clear the T-72B3 package is being serially applied to T-72s in mass numbers. These tanks are T-72B3s with the added panoramic sight and new engine. The ordinary T-72B3s feature the Sosna-U and the FCS from the T-90A, new digital comm gear, and K-5 ERA.

There's also the T-72BA which features a new engine, digital comm gear, and K-5 ERA. But no Sosna-U.

Unrelated note, new MANPADS just got delivered to the 98th VDV at Ivanovo. The Verba will be replacing the Igla and Strela.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=219695&d=1401736402

 

[Waylander]

So the next Biathlon will feature the Russian teams in T-72B3s and the other teams in plain normal T-72Bs?

Not very fair...

 

[Feanor]

So the next Biathlon will feature the Russian teams in T-72B3s and the other teams in plain normal T-72Bs?

Not very fair...

Not just T-72B3s, which conceivably they could give to all the contestants since they have enough of those, but a special upgraded version of the T-72B3 with panoramic sights installed and a more powerful engine. So yes, quite the unfair advantage. Then again a few countries are bringing their own tanks entirely so I guess it will come down to a contest between those tanks and the Russian upgrades.

 

[Waylander]

Do you know who will bring which tank?

I for one would seriously welcome a more multinational field of contestants. Just imagine Abrams, Leopards, Leclercs and K1s (with the odd Ariete, Type 90 or Arjun inbetween) duking it out against different Ts. A tankers wet dream...

 

[TankovayaVoyska]

Hi Feanor, just a quick question regarding T-72/90 series.

I understand that the T-72B3 are getting optics upgrades from the T-90s. (didn't know it was the Sosna-U they were getting though, I thought it was just the 1G46). Will this also translate into an ammunition upgrade? What's the standard battle carry round for the 125mm 2A46 guns nowadays? Still the BM-42, or the BM-42M, or even the BM-46? To fit the long rods, they'd need the T-80 autoloader, so does that mean they've been given autoloader upgrades as well?

Also, why do Russian tanks still carry a large number of HEAT rounds? The BK-29 seems quite overkill in terms of penetration vs light skin targets, but I'm not so sure it will match up against composites.

 

[Feanor]

Hi Feanor, just a quick question regarding T-72/90 series.

I understand that the T-72B3 are getting optics upgrades from the T-90s. (didn't know it was the Sosna-U they were getting though, I thought it was just the 1G46). Will this also translate into an ammunition upgrade? What's the standard battle carry round for the 125mm 2A46 guns nowadays? Still the BM-42, or the BM-42M, or even the BM-46? To fit the long rods, they'd need the T-80 autoloader, so does that mean they've been given autoloader upgrades as well?

I don't know.

Also, why do Russian tanks still carry a large number of HEAT rounds? The BK-29 seems quite overkill in terms of penetration vs light skin targets, but I'm not so sure it will match up against composites.

Heh. I don't know. I don't even know if it's still the case. But if it is, I imagine inertia is the main reason.

Do you know who will bring which tank?

I for one would seriously welcome a more multinational field of contestants. Just imagine Abrams, Leopards, Leclercs and K1s (with the odd Ariete, Type 90 or Arjun inbetween) duking it out against different Ts. A tankers wet dream...

Western countries have opted out of the Tank Biathlon, probably due to the Ukrainian crisis. Kuwait has decided not to bring their own tanks. So everyone will use T-72B1, Russia will use the T-72B3M (or B4), and Chine has brought their Type-96.

Here's a shot of the Type-96 in Alabino.

http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/280164.html

 

[peschernik]

Also, why do Russian tanks still carry a large number of HEAT rounds? The BK-29 seems quite overkill in terms of penetration vs light skin targets, but I'm not so sure it will match up against composites.

HEAT shells enter in the ammunition of Russian tanks because they have some abilities that are unusual for APFSDS. These features is as follows:
1. Cumulative shell - is a versatile munition. It is effective against armored vehicles, fortifications and engineering constructions, firing positions of artillery, mortars, rocket launchers. In addition to the cumulative effect, such shells also have fragmentation effect and, if necessary, can be used to destroy and suppress manpower and fire weapons located in shelters or open field type.
2. HEAT shells does not lose the ability to armor penetration even if the distance to the target is 4-5 km.
3. Georgia, Ukraine, and other countries who have a common border with Russia, do not have tanks of Western Europe. All these countries has only tanks T-72B in the main. (Among them only Ukraine has some T-80 in storage.) So, the third feature is that - the fact is that - the HEAT shells (with tandem charge like Russian ZBK-29) has a 100% chance to penetrate the armor of the T-72B. On the other hand, APFSDS similar to M829A1 APFSDS and even similar to M829A2 APFSDS are not always able to give a guarantee for hundred percent probability to penetrate the forehead of the T-72B. They certainly may penetrate but not always (especially M829A1). Because the tank is protected by reactive armor Kontakt-5. This armor gives 20-50% resist against APFSDS (and 80% resist against HEAT ammunition). But for HEAT ammunition with tandem charge this resist is zero. The first charge of ZBK-29 destroys the reactive armor, and the second charge breaks the composite armor of the T-72B. (Armor-piercing ability ZBK-29 is 650mm against steel.) Kontakt-5 gives zero resist against Russian ZBK-29 and ZBK-29M. This is the third reason due to which Russia continues to use the HEAT ammunition and continues to develop new types of tank's HEAT shells. The latest Russion development is a ZBK-31. (ZBK-31 is known as a mostly powerful tank's HEAT shell in the world. And, I'm afraid, it can be dangerous even for Abrams M1A2...)

 

[Feanor]

Well the VDV is getting a small bucket of new vehicles. They're testing the first batch of 8 BMD-4M right now. Next year they're set to received 64 BMD-4M, and ~20 BTR-MDM. They're also getting an air-droppable version of the Tigr armored car.

http://military-informant.com/index...ye-vojska-v-2015-godu-poluchat-64-bmd-4m.html
http://military-informant.com/index...niki-dlya-vdv-prokhodyat-v-novorossijske.html
Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Ðовый бронеавтомо±Ð¸Ð»ÑŒ Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð’Ð”Ð’

 

[Feanor]

Well the VDV is getting a small bucket of new vehicles. They're testing the first batch of 8 BMD-4M right now. Next year they're set to received 64 BMD-4M, and ~20 BTR-MDM. They're also getting an air-droppable version of the Tigr armored car. It's a testament to their lobbying power that they can opt out of the entire next generation of armored vehicles program.

http://military-informant.com/index...ye-vojska-v-2015-godu-poluchat-64-bmd-4m.html
http://military-informant.com/index...niki-dlya-vdv-prokhodyat-v-novorossijske.html
Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Ðовый бронеавтомобиль Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð’Ð”Ð’