Russian Air Force News & Discussion

[Haavarla]

The US, unlike others has the capability to work on 6Gen development while concurrently churning out increasing numbers of 5Gen jets. At the same time, the 4Gen fleet is being updated and enhanced to allow them to interoperate more effectively as supporting assets in the networked battlespace.

Fact is, the F-35B with Blk 2B can go to war today and perform required counter-air, interdiction, CAS, etc. missions. The F-35A will be able to do the same with Blk 3i when it goes IOC later this year. Blk 3F will bring added functionality when it is released. The JPO refutes some of the DOT&E concerns but acknowledges others. Like previous issues, these are not show-stoppers and will be addressed and fixes found and implemented.

Overall the Program is on solid footing with production efficiencies translating into steadily declining per-unit costs. The Services have stood firm on the number of jets that they project to buy. SECNAV has even instructed the Navy to plan on acquiring 31 additional F-35Cs from money saved by cuts in the LCS fleet.

Russia OTOH has no choice but to keep buying Flanker derivatives as PAK FA has a lot of uncertainty hanging over it. So Russia is modernizing which is good but it's like equipping your lumberjacks with sharper, lighter and stronger axes while your competiion is brandishing chainsaws.

And yet, for reasons unkown, the F-35B is still far from being shipped into service on missions over Iraq, Syria and Stan...
That is where the A-10 comes in, and why its still active.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...pted-reconsideration--10-retirement/79053734/

So much for the F-35B Blk 2B and CAS missions.

Yes the Russians do not have any other options.
Still their new Su-27M3, Su-30M2, Su-30SM are active.
Both Su-34 and Su-30SM are on combat missions in Syria.
Sukhoi and NAPO are allready working on the Su-34M version.

????????????????? ??????? ??-34 ????? ?????? ? 2020 ????



And most of the Flankers can with cheap bucks be further modernized with new engines and big AESA radar, when the times are right.
They should be flying far into 2030, as they come out of production now.
The Flankers factory is still on demand world wide, and procuring a Su-35 for around $35 mill is dirt cheap for Russia.

That speaks of "get capability today, fly tomrrow" procurment plans.
The new Flankers in VKS is very capable for most missions.

Only thing, they do need a decent targeting pod.
But that is fixed by them using Su-25 and Su-34 for CAS and bombing missions anyway.
And for targeting ISIS and other terrorist, they seems to be doing fine without targeting pods.

 

[Haavarla]

KnAAZ is set to produce 10 Su-35S for VKS in 2016.

On top of that, there is 4 Su-35 for China and 4 more for unknown customer.

A total of 18 Su-35.

I'm not sure if the last contract for 16 Su-30M2 is completed yet..

NAPO produced 16 Su-34 in 2015, thats two airframes past the first state contract.
They are set to max out at 18 airframes in +2016, each year.

IAPO produced 14 Su-30SM in 2015.
Think this is the output rate, as they have limited contracts, and also they keep the Yak-130 production going.

Their Flanker production should slowly phase out at the end of this deacade(MC-21 airliner comes in), but who knows how much more Flanker export contracts they get.

 

[Haavarla]

T-50-1 - finished frequency tests, conducts revision.
T-50-5R - performed frequency tests, work underway to eliminate the detected defects.
The deadlines of production.

T-50-6-2 - handed over to LIS after assembly of the aircraft after the application of RAM - 01/02/2016, frequency tests (including with weapons) - 26.02.-12.03., First flight - 26.03., Hand over to Sukhoi - 04/04/2016.

T-50-8 - transferred to LIS 01.30.2016, applying RAM - 26.02.-15.03, rework of cockpit - 14.04.-04.05, frequency tests - 15-23.05., First flight - 29.05., hand over to Sukhoi - 05/06/2016.

T-50-9 - wings assembly 03.15.2016, transferred to LIS 30.04, hand over to Sukhoi - 31/08/2016.

T-50-10 - 01.03 fuselage docking. Docking wings 20.04. transferred to LIS 30.06., hand over to Sukhoi - 10/30/2016.

T-50-11 - 30.05 fuselage docking. Docking wings 30.07., transferred to LIS 30.09., hand over to Sukhoi - 01/30/2017.


Personaly, i think this timetable will never hold.
Judging from past expirience, there are delays upon delays..

 

[John Fedup]

The US, unlike others has the capability to work on 6Gen development while concurrently churning out increasing numbers of 5Gen jets. At the same time, the 4Gen fleet is being updated and enhanced to allow them to interoperate more effectively as supporting assets in the networked battlespace.

Fact is, the F-35B with Blk 2B can go to war today and perform required counter-air, interdiction, CAS, etc. missions. The F-35A will be able to do the same with Blk 3i when it goes IOC later this year. Blk 3F will bring added functionality when it is released. The JPO refutes some of the DOT&E concerns but acknowledges others. Like previous issues, these are not show-stoppers and will be addressed and fixes found and implemented.

Overall the Program is on solid footing with production efficiencies translating into steadily declining per-unit costs. The Services have stood firm on the number of jets that they project to buy. SECNAV has even instructed the Navy to plan on acquiring 31 additional F-35Cs from money saved by cuts in the LCS fleet.

Russia OTOH has no choice but to keep buying Flanker derivatives as PAK FA has a lot of uncertainty hanging over it. So Russia is modernizing which is good but it's like equipping your lumberjacks with sharper, lighter and stronger axes while your competiion is brandishing chainsaws.

Yes, the US has the capability to do development work on 6th Gen fighters but finding the money to produce them in quantity is another matter, e.g. F-22 comes to mind at only 187 jets. Does anyone here really believe the US can fund 2400 JSFs considering the other high priority projects like the Ohio replacement, the Ford carriers, and the New bomber?

 

[colay1]

And yet, for reasons unkown, the F-35B is still far from being shipped into service on missions over Iraq, Syria and Stan...
That is where the A-10 comes in, and why its still active.

USAF Vice Chief: ISIS, Russia Prompted Reconsideration of A-10 Retirement

So much for the F-35B Blk 2B and CAS missions.

Yes the Russians do not have any other options.
Still their new Su-27M3, Su-30M2, Su-30SM are active.
Both Su-34 and Su-30SM are on combat missions in Syria.
Sukhoi and NAPO are allready working on the Su-34M version.

????????????????? ??????? ??-34 ????? ?????? ? 2020 ????



And most of the Flankers can with cheap bucks be further modernized with new engines and big AESA radar, when the times are right.
They should be flying far into 2030, as they come out of production now.
The Flankers factory is still on demand world wide, and procuring a Su-35 for around $35 mill is dirt cheap for Russia.

That speaks of "get capability today, fly tomrrow" procurment plans.
The new Flankers in VKS is very capable for most missions.

Only thing, they do need a decent targeting pod.
But that is fixed by them using Su-25 and Su-34 for CAS and bombing missions anyway.
And for targeting ISIS and other terrorist, they seems to be doing fine without targeting pods.

1. The Marines know the capabilities of the F-35B better than anyone else. If they say it's ready and capable, you are free to try and prove them wrong. The firdt F-35B squadron is being employed to help the next squadron's maintainers get up to speed on the jet. Deploying the jet to combat would disrupt the rollout schedule for succeeding squadrons and is deemed unnecessary given the coalition airmassetsnin theater.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-marines-say-f-35-could-deploy-to-middle-east/
US Marines Say F-35 Could Deploy To Middle East

The US Marine Corps said it is capable of deploying their F-35’s to the Middle East, if necessary. The F-35B variant was declared combat-ready by the Marines in July and set for deployment to Japan in 2017. However, as tensions rise over Islamic State terrorist activity in the Middle East, deployment plans could change.

Marine Corps Deputy Commandant for Aviation Lt. Gen. Jon Davis said:

“If a contingency arose, and I’ve got an IOC squadron, I could put six or more F-35Bs on the USS Wasp and sail into harm’s way and do the job and basically do what our nation needs to do with a fifth-generation aircraft from a seabase, the first one ever.”.In declaring it operational, Dunford described the advanced plane as “capable of conducting close air support, offensive and defensive counter air, air interdiction, assault support escort and armed reconnaissance.”

2. The A-10 belongs to the Air Force. The F-35B is USMC.

3. Russia continues to invest heavily in 4Gen aircraft fleets when 5Gen is the new standard for advanced combat aircraft. Axe vs. Chainsaw. Upgrade it as much as you want, it's just lipstick on a pig.

 

[Feanor]

3. Russia continues to invest heavily in 4Gen aircraft fleets when 5Gen is the new standard for advanced combat aircraft. Axe vs. Chainsaw. Upgrade it as much as you want, it's just lipstick on a pig.

Don't be silly. 4th gens dominate the market today and due to price tag and politics will continue to for a long time. Even the US is still buying Super Hornets. And Russia doesn't have an American defense budget. Compare Russia to countries with similar budgets, Germany, France, etc. They're buying Rafales and EFs. 5th Gens are not the standard and will not be the standard for quite some time. Rather they will be the higher end portion of fighter jets in the world.

 

[colay1]

Don't be silly. 4th gens dominate the market today and due to price tag and politics will continue to for a long time. Even the US is still buying Super Hornets. And Russia doesn't have an American defense budget. Compare Russia to countries with similar budgets, Germany, France, etc. They're buying Rafales and EFs. 5th Gens are not the standard and will not be the standard for quite some time. Rather they will be the higher end portion of fighter jets in the world.

.

OK, they are the new benchmark for high performance combat aircraft that many of the most advanced air arms are procuring or planning to procure.

 

[Toblerone]

What is this discussion about? USA easily has the edge in airforce capability, numbers, experience and tactics. And their game-changing stealth strike fighter (in variants for all the branches) will hit IOC way before PAKFA or the chinese faux 5th gen J-something. Like, a decade before them.

Meanwhile the russian workhorse in Syria is still the su-24. It's as if USA was nowadays performing strikes with upgraded Aardvarks

And the su-34 gets plans for su-34m suspiciously early, no? :

 

[Feanor]

What is this discussion about? USA easily has the edge in airforce capability, numbers, experience and tactics. And their game-changing stealth strike fighter (in variants for all the branches) will hit IOC way before PAKFA or the chinese faux 5th gen J-something. Like, a decade before them.

Meanwhile the russian workhorse in Syria is still the su-24. It's as if USA was nowadays performing strikes with upgraded Aardvarks

And the su-34 gets plans for su-34m suspiciously early, no? :

Nothing suspicious about it. The Su-34 went into LRIP in 2006, and really got rolling around 2011. An upgrade program only now starting would maybe produce an upgraded Su-34 by 2020. At that point the type will be 14 years old. The US is planning for 6th gens right now, when the F-35 has just barely come online. As for the Su-24, those Tornados the Europeans use are of similar vintage. Again consider the available funding and when that funding became available.

 

[Blackshoe]

Yes, the US has the capability to do development work on 6th Gen fighters but finding the money to produce them in quantity is another matter, e.g. F-22 comes to mind at only 187 jets. Does anyone here really believe the US can fund 2400 JSFs considering the other high priority projects like the Ohio replacement, the Ford carriers, and the New bomber?

Sure it could; easily. The US is the richest country in the world for a reason.

Now, whether the political will to do so is there or not, especially in a situation short of major crisis? Different question.

But capability isn't.

 

[Toblerone]

Nothing suspicious about it. The Su-34 went into LRIP in 2006, and really got rolling around 2011. An upgrade program only now starting would maybe produce an upgraded Su-34 by 2020. At that point the type will be 14 years old. The US is planning for 6th gens right now, when the F-35 has just barely come online. As for the Su-24, those Tornados the Europeans use are of similar vintage. Again consider the available funding and when that funding became available.

Oh I thought su-34m production was starting, nvm then.

About the rest, you agree with me that USA is far and beyond the others in terms of airpower. I just get weirded out when people overestimate the enemy threats and act like their governments are putting them in danger by not investing or doing enough military-wise. It's like the Cold War Era overestimation of soviet equipment.

Then again there are New Zealanders here afraid of a chinese invasion and australians afraid of N.Korean ballistic attacks. :sick

 

[Feanor]

Oh I thought su-34m production was starting, nvm then.

About the rest, you agree with me that USA is far and beyond the others in terms of airpower. I just get weirded out when people overestimate the enemy threats and act like their governments are putting them in danger by not investing or doing enough military-wise. It's like the Cold War Era overestimation of soviet equipment.

Then again there are New Zealanders here afraid of a chinese invasion and australians afraid of N.Korean ballistic attacks. :sick

Remember, the USA also has some very serious commitments. So while US airpower is in a class of its own, it's also stretched over pretty much the entire world. And situations often develop very rapidly where total force strength never comes into play. The only thing that matter is what you can get into theater within a relevant timeframe. If all the US has to respond to a crisis in time is a CVBG with Super Hornets, then all the F-35Bs in the world don't matter. So it's not quite so simple. Can Russia pose a credible threat in certain theaters within a set timeframe? The answer at this point appears to be a definite yes.

 

[Ranger25]

Remember, the USA also has some very serious commitments. So while US airpower is in a class of its own, it's also stretched over pretty much the entire world. And situations often develop very rapidly where total force strength never comes into play. The only thing that matter is what you can get into theater within a relevant timeframe. If all the US has to respond to a crisis in time is a CVBG with Super Hornets, then all the F-35Bs in the world don't matter. So it's not quite so simple. Can Russia pose a credible threat in certain theaters within a set timeframe? The answer at this point appears to be a definite yes.

Agreed, and the Russian VVS is employing similar tactics to the USAF. Why use high cost per hour airframes when you use less. I.e. Using the SU24 similarly to the USAF and the A-10. It's a low threat environment, why use all high dollar aircraft?

 

[SolarWind]

Yes, the US has the capability to do development work on 6th Gen fighters but finding the money to produce them in quantity is another matter, e.g. F-22 comes to mind at only 187 jets. Does anyone here really believe the US can fund 2400 JSFs considering the other high priority projects like the Ohio replacement, the Ford carriers, and the New bomber?

Sure it could; easily. The US is the richest country in the world for a reason.

Now, whether the political will to do so is there or not, especially in a situation short of major crisis? Different question.

But capability isn't.

The US budget is not infinite, nor is the ability to keep borrowing without serious side effects impacting economic well-being, state and individual wealth. And what kind of serious crisis are you talking about? There is no conventional or nuclear threat from any state on this side of the globe and there is very little chance of a major war elsewhere. The aim for the US forces seems to be to project power worldwide and respond quickly to minor crises around the world. I am not suggesting the US should cut defense spending, but there is little or no reason to expand the real defense budget either.

 

[Toblerone]

Maybe the solution for the USA is less interventionism, especially in regions where they don't have an ally to support. Recent history has shown that "partner building" does not work. And neither does toppling regimes to reroll another one friendly to you. Maybe it used to work but not anymore.

If you face no threat on your half of the planet and 10 aircraft carriers and having bases around the globe is not enough power projection for your policies to survive ... then change your policies.

 

[Haavarla]

According to this source, the Southern MD Russia will receive 20 Su-30SM this year, they will be splitt between VKS and AVMF. Think some will be deployed to Krimea.

http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2016/1/29/4848/

 

[Haavarla]

Su-35S deployed to Syria.
Guess we finally can call the IOC on the Su-35S.

http://sputniknews.com/military/20160201/1034035764/su-35s-syria-russia.html#ixzz3ywXAsCsb

 

[John Fedup]

Sure it could; easily. The US is the richest country in the world for a reason.

Now, whether the political will to do so is there or not, especially in a situation short of major crisis? Different question.

But capability isn't.

The US debt now exceeds the annual US GDP and deficits continue each year. At some point, lenders are going to stop buying US debt. The oil situation for the US has dramatically eased the trade deficit but how long will this last? Will interest rates stay low because if they don't the interest on 18 trillion will represent a huge chunk of future budgets leaving minimal funding for all other government programs.

 

[Haavarla]

A very interesting vid about Su-35S in Syria.
What is interesting here is the brand new armament, R-77-1.

It has an increase range of 30km =/=> 110km, which make it a serious platform in the region.

https://youtu.be/gpVEWipSx5k

It also has new ECM wing pods:

https://youtu.be/JBpRTsOXTGI

 

[Kasatka]

Thanks for the footage Haavarla.

Indeed the Su-35S+RVV-AE could become a game changer (if hostilities broke out). But I believe that it is more so due to the multiple track/engagement capability that the the aforementioned combo brings into play, than the range of the missile per se. The ECM pods are also a very interesting detail.

Do Russian forces have any AWAC/GCI dedicated platforms in Syria? I didn't find anything about that, but I do recall there being some ground based radars (besides the ones used by SAM batteries).