Russia wants French Helicopter Carriers...

[Alonso Quijano]

If cruise ships as large as the Norway/France can be towed, I am sure a LHD can be towed as well. Without a bridge, I don't see these ships sailing to Australia without towing...

The Australian LHDs will have their hull and powerplant built in Spain, but the superstructure and fitting out of the ships will be done in Australia...

a day carrying petroleum plant brasil
and again a huge concrete dam for the port of monaco.

I think not having problems with a ship without a government.

 

[swerve]

Will they transit to Australia under their own power or will they be towed, I don't know if there are any dockships capable of handling a ship of that length, the weight would be a problem.

If they aren't towed, I'd expect a semi-submersible to be used, not a dockship. Heavier loads have been carried. The length might be a problem, but there are open stern flo-flos, & I think they can cope with some overlap at the stern, by ballasting for balance.

There are some impressive pictures here - Fleet :: Dockwise :: Exceptional Transport Management

 

[Feanor]

And a quick update. There are rumors circulating in Russian press, that Russia will just purchase a license, or possibly even go with a domestic alternative, instead of buying a ship abroad. This coincides with a new shipbuilding program announced by prime-minister Putin.

At the same time the US Congress is looking at a resolution urging NATO states not to sell Russia major weapon systems.

Could the two have something in common? On the other hand the deal would be rather lucrative for France, who would get a rather large defense order. And would allow the first ship to be delivered much faster.

 

[nevidimka]

And a quick update. There are rumors circulating in Russian press, that Russia will just purchase a license, or possibly even go with a domestic alternative, instead of buying a ship abroad. This coincides with a new shipbuilding program announced by prime-minister Putin.

At the same time the US Congress is looking at a resolution urging NATO states not to sell Russia major weapon systems.

Could the two have something in common? On the other hand the deal would be rather lucrative for France, who would get a rather large defense order. And would allow the first ship to be delivered much faster.

I Think the French will give serious thought about the fighter competition in South Korea and SIngapore before they heed to the US resolution in this deal.

 

[Feanor]

France has just confirmed that a new request for a total of four ships is being processed right now. I'm guessing it's a total contract, for 4 ships, out of which 1 will be built in France, and the rest under license in Russia.

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There is also an unspecified technical query from Russian General HQ to the French. Additionally it's confirmed that the sale of a single ship has already been approved.

It's starting to look like the sale will go through afterall.

Russia to Order French Mistral LHDs?

Additionally DID notes that Russia has made the cancellation of a French supported Georgian TV channel, as a condition for the sale. Given that the sale is very high profile and is a new watermark for Russian-French relations, the long term political and security implications are very significant.

 

[Wall83]

The talks continue. The french president wants two of the ships to be built in France and the remaining in Russia.
He added that the mistral vessels would be built for Russia without military equipment, that shows that Russia will be using homemade hardware.

Russia, France open 'exclusive talks' on sale of 4 Mistral warships | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

 

[Feanor]

No surprises. The French basically want more of the contracts in France, so the shipyards can get more jobs. And of course the C4I on the ships, as well as the IADS need to be interoperable with other VMF assets, which means using domestic hardware.

 

[Alonso Quijano]

France has just confirmed that a new request for a total of four ships is being processed right now. I'm guessing it's a total contract, for 4 ships, out of which 1 will be built in France, and the rest under license in Russia.

ÀÐÌÑ-ÒÀÑÑ

There is also an unspecified technical query from Russian General HQ to the French. Additionally it's confirmed that the sale of a single ship has already been approved.

It's starting to look like the sale will go through afterall.

Russia to Order French Mistral LHDs?

Additionally DID notes that Russia has made the cancellation of a French supported Georgian TV channel, as a condition for the sale. Given that the sale is very high profile and is a new watermark for Russian-French relations, the long term political and security implications are very significant.

there are rumors that the French acambio the sale of ships mistral, transferred nuclear technology to build 4th generation in Russia.

 

[Wall83]

Any ideas where this wessels will be stationed in Russia when commissioned?

I`m thinking one in the Black sea, two in Murmansk and one perhaps in the Baltic sea?

 

[Feanor]

I would be surprised to see one in the BSF. One will probably end up in the Baltic, as the marine brigade in Kaliningrad has increased from 1200 to iirc 2700 in the course of the recent reforms. I'm fairly certain there will be 2 in the North Fleet, and probably one in the Pacific.

 

[Wall83]

Acourding to this Russia wants to buy the ships only if France fully-equipp them with all control and navigation means and armaments. The only thing that is going to be domestically made are the helicopters.
I doubt france will go along with this as the president has stated that the ship will be deliverd without military equipment.

Russia will only buy fully-equipped Mistral from France - Gen. Staff chief | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

 

[Feanor]

This makes little sense in terms of the armaments. The navigation and C2 systems I can understand, but the armaments?

This is also conflicting with earlier statements. This could just be another media screw up (those are common in Russia) in terms of the general contradicting the politicians. Or it could be a sign of why the negotiations are taking so long.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I think its still a possibility. France has a reputation to sell, and Russia seems very keen to buy. Helicopter carriers don't need missiles/guns as such, and much of the rest could be adapted from commerical ships.

Interesting. I thought russia would have been keen for a russian fitout.

 

[Feanor]

I'm guessing they want the command and control system aboard those ships. It's quite sophisticated. It's also something Russia lacks in. Finally, the ship is meant largely as a command ship for major amphibious operations.

 

[harryriedl]

I'm guessing they want the command and control system aboard those ships. It's quite sophisticated. It's also something Russia lacks in. Finally, the ship is meant largely as a command ship for major amphibious operations.

I didn't the C&C was as impressive as other vessels in the French Fleet as I was thinking of the Mistral as a French equivalent to HMS Ocean. Admittedly looking on wiki I see its based of the USA NTDS is that a sophisticated system which the Russians would want if so dose that indicate how far behind the Russian navy is in regards to signal processing and C&C.

In regards to large scale Amphibious ops would misral be uses as a anphib leader to LSTs the russians have in service

 

[Feanor]

And looks like we know why it's taking so long to figure things out. The French are insisting it will be sold unarmed. Basically a civilian ship. Russia seems to be determined to get it up to standards.

 

[StevoJH]

I thought the command facilities in the Mistral class were just a big empty room with network ports. You then moved a complete army field headquarters into the space and plug it into the network ports linking it all together.

 

[Feanor]

The SENIT 9 system, the radars, all that sensetive stuff. That's what the MoD wants to get their hands on. Now the purchase is starting to make a lot more sense.

 

[StevoJH]

The SENIT 9 system, the radars, all that sensetive stuff. That's what the MoD wants to get their hands on. Now the purchase is starting to make a lot more sense.

You mean the stuff that if the French sold they'd get crucified by the UK and US for selling? :ar15

 

[Feanor]

Yep. That stuff. Remember it's a fat contract. And a milestonein in Russo-French military cooperation. And a sign. If the French accept this deal, Thales could land a fat contract working with say Flanker modernizations. Or even turn out to be a subcontractor for the PAK-FA. On the other hand, turn this down, and you not only lose the contract, losing jobs, etc. you also send out the signals that you don't trust Russia. Now all of a sudden, Thales gets pushed out of the niche it's gotten. The next T-90 batches are built with domestic copes of Catherine, the next Super-Flanker export goes through with Russian targetting pods (they were recently tested on Su-24M/M2, and Tu-22M3). And what do you know, next thing Holland gets approached for the same sort of ships, offered a fat contract, and a chance to butt in on the Russian defence market.