RSN capabilities

Red

New Member
Are you posting as a fact or as a question? If question, then the answer is no, at present.
Possible. RSN is buying the Slyver launchers separately. While initial batches could be A43 launchers(im not even certain about this), the remaining batches could be A50s. As I`ve said, the A50 launchers were still undergoing testing when the Formidables were being built. The tests were pretty recent as well.

The Formidable can accommodate as many as 48 cells in front of the bridge afterall. My gut feelings is that the Formidable could possibly end up with A70 launchers(or a version of it) in the end and the RSN is actually waiting for the latter to be ready. I dont see a problem in installing them on the ship; especially if you consider the fact that she would not have a problem in putting on Mk41 tactical or perhaps strategic launchers. That would give the RSN the flexibility of putting a variety of other missiles in the launchers in the future(im assuming that the A70 launchers will be made out with that flexibility as I`ve read about it sometime not too long ago).

A version of PAAMs, the SAAM AD(consisting of both Aster 15s and 30s) is already available; for the anti-air FREMM version I reckon. That could be a possible make-out for the Formidable class; for a possible 32 Aster 30 and 16 Aster 15 missile load-out in war-time per frigate.
 

Red

New Member
I think the formidable may be upgraded if there is a need but I think it is pretty clear that the Aster 15 equips the formidable at this time
That is what has been stated officially. But that could also mean what Mindef has bought only recently. You`ve mentioned that 200 Aster 15 missiles have been purchased thus far to equip 11 ships from various navies.

How many would go into RSN`s hands? If you are to take the current percieved missle load-out of 32 Aster missiles per ship and assume that all the 200 missiles are meant for Singapore(which is not the case), that would mean that it would be just right for the 6 frigates in the RSN. But that is not the case of course and that would invariably mean that the RSN has yet to procure more Aster missiles and as a related point Slyver launchers(which could be A43 or A50) as well.

Im only speculating here.
 

Red

New Member
I'm not speculating anything. I'm just pointing out that MBDA indicated in their press release that the Aster 15 Naval will equip 6 ships in a foreign navy. No one else uses the Aster 15 naval system other than specified in the press release. By logical assumption, the Aster 15 naval system will equip all 6 ships of the RSN because there is no other navy that falls under that category with that number of ships equipped with the Aster.
Yes, I know you are`nt which is why i said that is what is known officially thus far. However, I pointed out in my previous posts that 200 Aster 15 missiles would not be enough to accomodate all 11 ships. At the mentioned current 32 vls cells per ship, the 6 formidable class ships alone would need a minimum of 256 missiles.

Hence, these navies would be making further orders of the Aster missiles and possibly slyver launchers (A43 or A50)as well. They could be Aster 30 missiles and slyver A50 launchers. If you take a look at the Al-sawari class ships, each ship is armed with just 16 Aster 15 missiles or 16 vls cells with the capacity to accomodate more in the future. The same applies to the Formidable which can accomodate more than 32 vls cells.


The press releases were in 2001 and 2002. Sure, the RSN may have changed their minds but that's speculation and very unlikely. Contract provisions rarely work that way. The Formidable was launched in 2002, 2 more in 2003 etc. At the same time, MBDA may of course be lying

Also, the Mindef fact sheet indicated that the system was similar to the CDG. They could have indicated it as similar to the Horizons etc but they didn't.
The old contracts could have been fully exercised and new ones negotiated seeing as such SAF buys her wares in batches. As mentioned, the RSN obviously has not bought all the slyver launchers and Asters at one go. Newer orders may not be reflected as the press releases which were made nearly 6-7 years ago.

Well, we are all to familiar with how charitable Mindef has been with the release of information are we not ? ;)


I think many would like to see the A70 launchers in the Formidables but that didn't happen. Haven't read anything that remotely suggest otherwise.
How could it happen when it is`nt even ready and for sale? The idea of RSN equipping her frigates with Aster 15 missiles/A43(or A50) launchers first and later the A70 launchers is`nt too far fetched.(assuming the A70 launchers can be fitted on board the ship).

You buy the launchers in packs of 8 vls cells and have it installed on the ship on the designated deck space. It does not mean that if a designated deck space has space for 48 cells(i.e 6 8-celled launchers), you`ll put all 6 launchers there immediately. You could, in the case of some navies around the world, reserve the space for future growth.
 

Red

New Member
I beg to differ Weasel, the current inconclusive evidence is that the RSN has not bought all the Aster missiles and launchers. That the RSN has bougth some. So, the question begs to be answered. What about the rest?

Also, it is a clear indication that the Formidables will be equipped with long range SAM missiles and other armaments just by looking at the design, expansion slots and systems she carries.

However, you are probably right in saying that it would be a somewhat sensitive procurement. It is already that sensitive that RSN did not want to be named by EADs in the press releases for the purchase of Aster 15s. You might see them in photo shots if my speculation is true or when they eventually buy it and make it known officially. We`ll have to see. But there are some things SAF has never acknowledged having. For example, we do not have Tempest tanks. :D Or Python 4/5 missiles. Or whatever strange looking missiles or bombs that we see sometimes hanging from RSAF planes in amateur photo shots. We never bought them. Really
 

SGMilitary

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #48
Dear Weasel,

I've to agree with Red.

The RSN had only purchased 12 Slyver A43 VL.

They are procuring 12 more Slyver VL which has been much anticipated to

be A50.

The entire SAF is moving towards long range precision strike.

It make sense for the RSN to equip her frigates with Aster 30.

Thank you.


Best Regards
 

LazerLordz

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
Dear Weasel,

I've to agree with Red.

The RSN had only purchased 12 Slyver A43 VL.

They are procuring 12 more Slyver VL which has been much anticipated to

be A50.

The entire SAF is moving towards long range precision strike.

It make sense for the RSN to equip her frigates with Aster 30.

Thank you.


Best Regards
Think about it, getting the ASTER 30 would provide us with a rudimentary near-BMD or more realistically, an air defence system off our coast on the cheap.
 

LazerLordz

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
RSS Intrepid, RSS Steadfast and RSS Tenacious have been launched today.

3 new 'stealth' warships help boost air defence

By David Boey, Defence Correspondent
SINGAPORE'S navy will mark a milestone on Tuesday morning when it commissions three new 'stealth' warships expected to add unprecedented muscle to the country's defences.

The 114m-long frigates - Singapore's largest combat vessels - will be armed with anti-aircraft missiles and cutting-edge sensors that allow them to destroy enemy warplanes from up to 15km away.


Read more here. Link
 

SGMilitary

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #52
I'm looking forward for the installation of Aster 30 and Slyver A50 on these

ubiquitous ships.

What are the upgrade plans for the Victory class missile corvettes and

Landsort 47 class mine counter measure vessels.

Are there any plans for the RSN to procure two more mcmv as normally a

squadron of ship consist of 6 ships.

Is the RSN replacing her Fokker 50 MPA and procuring more S70B's?

Are there plans to procure two more amphibous vessels with capabilities

to accomodate more helicopters or VTOL aircraft?

Please comments.

Best Regards
 

Red

New Member
Hah. Trust Singapore Straits Times to toe Mindef`s line. The cat is finally outta of the bag it would seem.

" Singapore has a special SAAM configuration on its new frigates, combining Thales Herakles radar with the Slyver A50 launchers and a mix of Aster 15 and Aster 30 missiles."

:p:


source Aviationweek in an interview with MDBA. Go here;

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/aw/dti0108/index.php

Go to page 38-39. It includes other stuffs about the future development of the Aster series of missiles.
 

Red

New Member
As a corollary, this adds fuel to rumours that the SAF is looking at the land-based SAMP-T system to replace the I-hawks. There has been a string of meetings between Singapore officials and France recently. Teo Chee Hean will be meeting the French defence minister in the incoming 44th Munich Conference on Security Policy in Germany from 7to 11 Feb 08 among other officials.
 

Red

New Member
They may not even retire the I-hawks. Maybe retire the guns at 160 sqn first leaving the blindfire rapiers to handle airfield point defence. The guns are obsolete and the battalion-sized unit already has the necessary structure. The I-hawks are still useful eg area defence in support of ground troops like the marines.
It has been reported that the I-hawks are good for another 10 years or less after the upgrades; probably less than that if you take into account the issue of ten years or less from when henceforth? lol. Usually, SAf makes announcements about commissioning systems 1-2 years after testing a particular system. That`s more than enough time to order and integrate new systems like the land-based Aster 30 missile system. But i kindda of agree with you that the i-hawk would still have its uses then. I mean we can use it to hit cheap and non-threatening projectiles.

The rapiers will not be around for much longer in spite the recent upgrades i think. A RFI has been issued to have the Rapiers replaced recently. Im thinking Crotale Mk3. Could be wrong. Cheers
 

Red

New Member
I got it. I wont post it here due to possible copyright issues. JDW Oct 24 2007 - Making the Connection. You can check it out.

Singapore`s chief of airforce said that an RFI has been issued to replace the Rapier MK2s. He added that the RBS 70s will be replaced in 5 years time and the I-hawks will be replaced in around 8 years time. All backdated to 2007 of course. I guess it also implies the orders for these new systems will be made much earlier to allow for testing and integration work. I suppose they could bring forward the inception of these systems as well if they feel it is necessary.

Odd though they are going to replace the upgraded Rapier MK2s first as you have said in the preceding post. Cheers
 

LazerLordz

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
It's no secret that we announce the "procurement & operationalisation" of a particular system and it turns out that it's been in the works for years, and the fellas trained on it are about to end their National Service term (conscription).

For this reason, I presume the timeline between actual trial and announcement to be at least 2-3 years in nature.

I've heard about our interest in the Crotale for years, peppered in many defence magazines..
 

SGMilitary

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #60
It's no secret that we announce the "procurement & operationalisation" of a particular system and it turns out that it's been in the works for years, and the fellas trained on it are about to end their National Service term (conscription).

For this reason, I presume the timeline between actual trial and announcement to be at least 2-3 years in nature.

I've heard about our interest in the Crotale for years, peppered in many defence magazines..
Crotale missile system?

Pardon me but I thought the French going to phase this out as its considered

antiquated?

Isn't MICA or surface launch AMRAAm more advanced?

Between, since the Formidable frigates are equipped with Slyver A50 VL/Aster 15 & Aster 30, doesn't that makes RSN the 1st navy in the world to operationalise the Aster 30 system?

Cheers!
 
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