Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

ngatimozart said:
No way because there's all them luverly minerals, including hopefully hydrocarbons in the NZ Antarctic territory, just waiting to be extracted. In order to fully fund Defence, we just need to start extracting the oil and gas in the Southern Basin just below the South Island. It is thought to have significant hydrocarbon resources possibly on par with the Saudi fields or greater, but it hasn't yet been fully explored and quantified.
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Isn't there a ban on mineral extraction from the Antarctic? With regard to oil and gas, climate change awareness will make most future projects in both polar regions less attractive to energy companies. It is less expensive to concentrate on extraction from easier regions and there would be less political hassle. The latter point would be especially true in NZ's case. It will interesting to see how both Canada and NZ approach development of their fossil fuel resources in their respective polar regions given the increasing opposition to continued use by our electorates.
 
John Fedup said:
Isn't there a ban on mineral extraction from the Antarctic? With regard to oil and gas, climate change awareness will make most future projects in both polar regions less attractive to energy companies. It is less expensive to concentrate on extraction from easier regions and there would be less political hassle. The latter point would be especially true in NZ's case. It will interesting to see how both Canada and NZ approach development of their fossil fuel resources in their respective polar regions given the increasing opposition to continued use by our electorates.
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The Antarctic Treaty prohibits commercial activities such as mining in Antarctica. However, NZ has a substantial EEZ between the South Island and Antarctica which could contain sub-sea oil and minerals, and which is not covered by the Treaty. It would, however, be a very high-cost environment to mine/drill, due to remoteness and hostile conditions. Not to mention the policy of the current government.
 
40 deg south said:
The Antarctic Treaty prohibits commercial activities such as mining in Antarctica. However, NZ has a substantial EEZ between the South Island and Antarctica which could contain sub-sea oil and minerals, and which is not covered by the Treaty. It would, however, be a very high-cost environment to mine/drill, due to remoteness and hostile conditions. Not to mention the policy of the current government.
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I know the North Sea is a challenging environment for drilling and production rigs but surely that pales to insignificance in 20 mtr+ Southern Ocean swells. I don’t even know if that’s feasible. Being the standby tender would not be a pleasant task either.
I’ve been down there once in moderate weather and that was enough.
 
I agree, the Southern Ocean would be much more challenging than the North Sea. Worse still, the chances of “stuff” happening are greater with virtually no emergency support due to distance. A disaster would be an extinction event for the party in office. In all likelihood it will be economics that prevents drilling and by the time any polar developments happen, climate concerns will only heighten opposition. As for minerals, maybe less political opposition but the economics and ugly ocean conditions reduce the enthusiasm.
 
John Fedup said:
I agree, the Southern Ocean would be much more challenging than the North Sea. Worse still, the chances of “stuff” happening are greater with virtually no emergency support due to distance. A disaster would be an extinction event for the party in office. In all likelihood it will be economics that prevents drilling and by the time any polar developments happen, climate concerns will only heighten opposition. As for minerals, maybe less political opposition but the economics and ugly ocean conditions reduce the enthusiasm.
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The Southern Ocean has some of the most challenging conditions around as does the North Sea. The issue is not what is worse but the nature of the conditions. The Southern Ocean can generate a short period tall wave combined with a fully developed sea and this nees to be catered for. The forward structure of vessels wishing to work in this area needs to be strong enought to withstand the impact of a lot of water on the deck and allow the water to drain away.

I am ware the forward structure of the Otago Class OPV was (decks and forward bulkheads) modifed from the orignal design to address this. Basically you cannot always buy an off the shelf design.
 
alexsa said:
The Southern Ocean has some of the most challenging conditions around as does the North Sea. The issue is not what is worse but the nature of the conditions. The Southern Ocean can generate a short period tall wave combined with a fully developed sea and this nees to be catered for. The forward structure of vessels wishing to work in this area needs to be strong enought to withstand the impact of a lot of water on the deck and allow the water to drain away.

I am ware the forward structure of the Otago Class OPV was (decks and forward bulkheads) modifed from the orignal design to address this. Basically you cannot always buy an off the shelf design.
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The subject of resource development was raised by 40 deg South a few posts back and my query was about the feasibility of offshore drilling/production in such conditions. I have assumed that it would not be possible?
Is there any info on what the wind/wave/swell limits are on floating rigs?
 
John Fedup said:
Isn't there a ban on mineral extraction from the Antarctic? With regard to oil and gas, climate change awareness will make most future projects in both polar regions less attractive to energy companies. It is less expensive to concentrate on extraction from easier regions and there would be less political hassle. The latter point would be especially true in NZ's case. It will interesting to see how both Canada and NZ approach development of their fossil fuel resources in their respective polar regions given the increasing opposition to continued use by our electorates.
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I am being facetious / sarcastic. :D I know very well that under the Treaty one simply can't mine there.
 
GETS | Ministry of Defence - New Zealand Defence Force Southern Ocean Patrol Vessel Industry Engagement Session

As part of the Pacific 2019 conference/exhibition in Sydney, NZMOD is running a seminar on requirements for the Southern Ocean patrol vessel. Notice copied below. Would be very interesting to hear what they say about timing.

Date: Wednesday 09 October 2019

Time: 1300 - 1430 (Australian Eastern Standard Time)

Registration: This even is open and complimentary to PACIFIC 2019 trade visitors, exhibitors and conference delegates. Click here to register (PACIFIC 2019 : INTERNATIONAL MARITIME EXPOSITION : SYDNEY AUSTRALIA 8-10 OCTOBER) your interest in attending. Please note that your expression of interest does not guarantee a place; numbers at the PACIFIC 2019 complimentary conferences are limited and spaces are not guaranteed. Attendance is subject to availability and is on a first come, first served basis.

Location: Starboard Theatrette, Exposition Floor, Hall 4, International Convention Centre, Sydney.

The New Zealand Government's requirements for a new Southern Ocean Patrol Vessel will be discussed at this industry engagement session.

Industry will hear from the integrated project team from the Ministry of Defence and New Zealand Defence Force, who are responsible for delivering this project. The session will cover New Zealand's maritime patrol requirements, provide an overview of some of the technical considerations for operating in the Southern Ocean, and indicative timing for the project.

The project aims to deliver to the Royal New Zealand Navy a capability that will enable it to undertake whole-of-Government tasking within the Southern Ocean and Ross Sea areas and conduct patrols across a wider range of ice conditions than is possible with the current naval patrol fleet. Any new vessel must meet regulatory requirements under the international Polar Code, allowing New Zealand to operate with reduced risk to sensitive environments and ecosystems, and meet expectations in relation to safety of life.

Industry need to register to attend the session. There will also be opportunities during the conference to meet one-on-one with the project.

this event is presented in conjunction with the PACIFIC 2019 International Maritime Exposition.
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ASSAIL said:
The subject of resource development was raised by 40 deg South a few posts back and my query was about the feasibility of offshore drilling/production in such conditions. I have assumed that it would not be possible?
Is there any info on what the wind/wave/swell limits are on floating rigs?
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Large Column stabalised units can operate in pretty severe conditions and units like FLNG Prelude (largest ship in the word) are designed to stay on station for 20 to 40 years .... including during cyclones. So it can be done but the investment is not insignificant.
 
40 deg south said:
The Antarctic Treaty prohibits commercial activities such as mining in Antarctica. However, NZ has a substantial EEZ between the South Island and Antarctica which could contain sub-sea oil and minerals, and which is not covered by the Treaty. It would, however, be a very high-cost environment to mine/drill, due to remoteness and hostile conditions. Not to mention the policy of the current government.
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map-new-zealand-images-south-island.jpg

Image 1.

From what I have gleaned from various sources, it is thought that the significant hydrocarbon resources lie to the south and south west of Puysegur Point the south western most point of the South Island as seen in Image 1. The Australian tectonic plate is subducting under the Pacific plate by the Puysuger Trench, south of the South Island, as shown in Image 2, and it is generally above the subduction zones that hydrocarbon deposits are found. You will note that the Taranaki hydrocarbon fields (around New Plymouth and extending offshore quite a distance - +100 nm) are above the subduction zone where, the Pacific plate subducts under the Australian plate by the Hikurangi Trough.

nz_tect_plates__1524313265802__w548.jpg

Image 2.

Also there are thought to be gas deposits in the Canterbury Basin extending east, offshore from Christchurch to about Dunedin.

On Image one, from memory, the white area is the 1,000 m isobath then it deepens by 1,000 m as each shade darkens. The long white area extending east from the Christchurch area is the Chatham Rise with an average depth of about 400 m until it reaches the Chatham Islands. At places the depth is 300 m and less and can make sailing interesting.
 
alexsa said:
Large Column stabalised units can operate in pretty severe conditions and units like FLNG Prelude (largest ship in the word) are designed to stay on station for 20 to 40 years .... including during cyclones. So it can be done but the investment is not insignificant.
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It would be an epic feet of engineering, nobody has built a platform or a floater for use in the Southern Ocean. The other way of doing it would be completely subsea with a pipeline to an onshore installation, this is how a lot of the new gas fields are being developed in the North Sea, with subsea tiebacks to existing platforms or to an onshore terminal.
 
KiwiRob said:
It would be an epic feet of engineering, nobody has built a platform or a floater for use in the Southern Ocean. The other way of doing it would be completely subsea with a pipeline to an onshore installation, this is how a lot of the new gas fields are being developed in the North Sea, with subsea tiebacks to existing platforms or to an onshore terminal.
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But the wells still have to be drilled. Is that possible sub sea now?
 
This is starting to stray close to my area of expertise (geophysics) so I thought I'd share some thoughts, even if it is a little off topic.

Oil and gas deposits are located exclusively in thick sedimentary basins, and a number of factors need to come together in just the right way in order to create a reservoir large enough to be economically exploited. Ngati's comment above suggesting they are connected to subduction zones is not quite correct, and active tectonics plays more of a secondary role in helping to create the accommodation space for such sedimentation to occur, and modifying the subsurface structure to create fluid pathways and traps.

In NZ oil and gas seeps have been observed in a number of basins (e.g. Hawkes Bay, Canterbury, and the Great South Basin), but so far Taranaki is the only place where economic discoveries have been made. There are currently a number of active exploration permits outside of Taranaki (see NZP&M's website for an interactive webmap), with the Great South Basin seeming to hold the most potential. I believe OMV is planning to send a rig down there this summer to drill a few exploratory wells. I seem to remember reading that any discovery there is likely very gas prone, and if an economic discovery is made it would be a huge boon to the South Island, which does not currently have any gas transmission infrastructure. I believe coal is still widely used for process heat down there so the ability to replace this with gas would do great things for our CO2 emissions profile.
 
milliGal said:
This is starting to stray close to my area of .expertise (geophysics) so I thought I'd share some thoughts, even if it is a little off topic.
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Thanks milliGal. My thoughts had been around development much further south in NZs EEZ and hence my queries although still noting the unkind conditions closer to the coast.
I would love to find out more about the challenges of tough environment drilling but that’s for another forum and promise mods, no more pollution of the RNZN thread. But hey ngati, you started this:)
 
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milliGal said:
This is starting to stray close to my area of expertise (geophysics) so I thought I'd share some thoughts, even if it is a little off topic.

Oil and gas deposits are located exclusively in thick sedimentary basins, and a number of factors need to come together in just the right way in order to create a reservoir large enough to be economically exploited. Ngati's comment above suggesting they are connected to subduction zones is not quite correct, and active tectonics plays more of a secondary role in helping to create the accommodation space for such sedimentation to occur, and modifying the subsurface structure to create fluid pathways and traps.

In NZ oil and gas seeps have been observed in a number of basins (e.g. Hawkes Bay, Canterbury, and the Great South Basin), but so far Taranaki is the only place where economic discoveries have been made. There are currently a number of active exploration permits outside of Taranaki (see NZP&M's website for an interactive webmap), with the Great South Basin seeming to hold the most potential. I believe OMV is planning to send a rig down there this summer to drill a few exploratory wells. I seem to remember reading that any discovery there is likely very gas prone, and if an economic discovery is made it would be a huge boon to the South Island, which does not currently have any gas transmission infrastructure. I believe coal is still widely used for process heat down there so the ability to replace this with gas would do great things for our CO2 emissions profile.
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Thanks and I stand corrected because I was doing it from memory. Coal is still used in the bottom of the South Island with large deposits of coal in Southland. In Eastern Southland it's lignite, whilst in Central Southland around Ohai its hard bitumous coal. However the coal is being phased out now and clean energy is being pushed. There are also minerals in the National Park as well including uranium, but not lots of that. Also uranium in Northland. :D

However the offshore resources are the ones that we need to watch and that's what we require a navy and air force for amongst other things that they do.
 
ASSAIL said:
But the wells still have to be drilled. Is that possible sub sea now?
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A drillship or drilling platform would be needed for that, which would be a major undertaking, but after the wells have bred drilled going unmanned and subsea would be the safest option IMO, there’s no need for a manned platform if you can get away without one.
 
RNZN - Aotearoa

30 November 2018
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Members of the Royal New Zealand Navy have been training at HMS Raleigh (Royal Navy) in preparation for the delivery of HMNZS Aotearoa, in 2020
A team of 19 have been using the replenishment-at-sea (RAS) training rig at the base in Torpoint, to practice transferring stores, fuel and other items from ship-to-ship at sea. The facility, which started life as a trials platform to test equipment for the new Queen Elizabeth Carriers, is run off a Rolls Royce electric system; the same system which will be fitted to HMNZS Aotearoa
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While checking the RNZN site for a post on the RAN forum, I noticed the snippet above. Not sure if it has ever been mentioned here. Nice to see we have been using the RN's shore-based training system while NZ is temporarily without a tanker to practice on.
 
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