Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

RegR

Well-Known Member
The Navy currently has funding for 2,230 people, but Proctor said the service’s ideal end strength is about 2,340. As of Nov. 30, it had 2,117 in service, he said.

So the RNZN is underfunded by 110 people and at 30/11/22 was 113 people short of what it's funded for and 223 people short of what it actually requires. That's a whole frigate and an IPV crew short. Not good at all.

The service has “often struggled” to hit recruitment targets, Proctor noted, with the group coming in next year representing half of the service’s goal. Part of the problem is the highly competitive labor market.
“If the current attrition rate of 16.5% can be arrested, it is expected [that we] will have sufficient sailors to operate the rest of the fleet,” a Navy spokesperson told Defense News. “However, there remains a level of uncertainty until this attrition rate is reversed. This requires a number of initiatives to take effect, including addressing the widening gap between our sailor remuneration and what the highly competitive job market is offering.”

So the attrition rate is 16.5% and they can't arrest it at the moment. People are voting with their feet and the quarantine deployment has done significant harm to the RNZN and NZDF as a whole. Our political masters should be very proud of themselves; they've found another way to destroy the RNZN and NZDF.
These things happen in cycles but one thing is certain they always happen, nothing new at all. The cycles that come to mind in just my lifetime were the mining boom, the circuit, covid and MIQ as any change/oppourtunity in general routine cause anyone/everyone to re-think their situation, and rightly so as family and self improvement are forefront in anyones life plan. Whether or not you act on it depends on the perceived gains outweighing the current situation in terms of overall benefit and once the pendulum swings the seed of change is planted. All this can vary from simply more money (a major consideration nowadays), better work/life balance (ie ad hoc hours), family commitments (ie posting considerations) to overall job satisfaction and progression (marching forward vs marking time and lets be honest no one wants to make a career of repetitive nebulous BS forever).

You will find those numbers short will be in specific vital areas in terms of the amount of ships sitting idle as they have the overall numbers of people to put to sea but then being even 1-2 vital pers required for that particular ship in key appointments renders essentially the entire crew redundant due to overall safety, operation and effectiveness hence the conducting other training, leave and TODs just to keep the remaining members current, relevant and otherwise employed.

I disagree with Paul Buchanans assumption that navy made a mistake in "acquiring more ships" as in fact they didnt acquire "more" ships they merely replaced old ships with more capability and multi-role options and if anything overall fleet numbers have actually dropped and if anything we should have actually been in a better position considering the older ships generally required larger crews with more labour intensive systems vs todays more modern minimum manned and automated processes. The crewing required for the 4 Leanders alone would numbers wise cover the entire fleet today.

The irony is the shorter they get in certain trades only then compounds the problem as the few remaining then generally have to take up the slack or other trades have to take on more responsibility meaning they are now over worked, end up burning out and they themselves ultimately end up leaving and the cycle spirals. Attrition is always a problem especially if there is no redundancy to cover any gap in capability created as some trades literally require experience and expertise to fill, something you cannot recruit overnight. Its not unique to NZ and even big spenders like Australia and Canada go through these cycles. Australia has been paying incentive/retention payments as far back as the Timor days for select roles and that is on top of their already comparitively high (to us anyway) salaries and allowances so perhaps its not all about the $$$ and maybe more re the conditions? who knows but if they do not get on top of the issue and allow it to slide to far into the negatives then they will literally grind to an eventual halt, whether they like it or not. Some tough decisions need to be made.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Canterbury loaded up in Lyttelton and sailed late yesterday. It has taken on board seven Bailey Bridges and relief supplies for the Hawkes Bay. Also aboard are some ECAN (Environment Canterbury) vehicles and river science teams. It has one SH-2G(I) abard as well.

Te Mana has arrived in Napier with generators, water, and other relief supplies. Manawanui arrived in Gisborne and unloaded its relief supplies including water. It also visited isolated coastal communities on its way to Gisborne, offloading relief supplies for them.
 

RegR

Well-Known Member
Canterbury loaded up in Lyttelton and sailed late yesterday. It has taken on board seven Bailey Bridges and relief supplies for the Hawkes Bay. Also aboard are some ECAN (Environment Canterbury) vehicles and river science teams. It has one SH-2G(I) abard as well.

Te Mana has arrived in Napier with generators, water, and other relief supplies. Manawanui arrived in Gisborne and unloaded its relief supplies including water. It also visited isolated coastal communities on its way to Gisborne, offloading relief supplies for them.
Wonder if CANs landing craft can get up the Wairoa river like the barge did in Cyclone Bola, be interesting to see.
 

ngatimozart

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Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Wonder if CANs landing craft can get up the Wairoa river like the barge did in Cyclone Bola, be interesting to see.
Gabrielle was big and more damaging than Bola so maybe, maybe not. This is Geoff Mackley's video from around Eskdale in the Hawkes Bay. If the Wairoa river is anything like this ...

 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
Gabrielle was big and more damaging than Bola so maybe, maybe not. This is Geoff Mackley's video from around Eskdale in the Hawkes Bay. If the Wairoa river is anything like this ...

Devastation crikey! Bang goes our easter roadie to Napier (Bayview actually, even worse!)

What's with the flashing lights on the 4WD!?!
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
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Verified Defense Pro
Devastation crikey! Bang goes our easter roadie to Napier (Bayview actually, even worse!)

What's with the flashing lights on the 4WD!?!
Link to a Facebook post that has 350 photos of the destruction

WRT the flashing lights on the 4WD, Geoff Mackley is media and he most likely has them to warn other traffic of a potential hazard. His YouTube channel is well worth having a nose through.
 

kiwi in exile

Active Member
Navy Today - Issue 273, January/February 2023 Royal New Zealand Navy | Navy Today - Issue 273, January/February 2023

RNZN is battle labbing miniguns. About time some of you will say.
"The goal is to be able to mount the weapon on selected fleet units, the future Littoral Manoeuvre Craft and future RHIBs"
Future Littoral manouvre craft??- any info on this?

No mention of helo mounts, but if the battle lab testig is positive it may happen.
Or M3M .50 would be good.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
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Navy Today - Issue 273, January/February 2023 Royal New Zealand Navy | Navy Today - Issue 273, January/February 2023

RNZN is battle labbing miniguns. About time some of you will say.
"The goal is to be able to mount the weapon on selected fleet units, the future Littoral Manoeuvre Craft and future RHIBs"
Future Littoral manouvre craft??- any info on this?

No mention of helo mounts, but if the battle lab testig is positive it may happen.
Or M3M .50 would be good.
Excellent short-ranged counter-UAS capability, like a ‘Phalanx-Lite’... USMC are using the weapon for the same concept…

Would be hellish against small boats, too…
 

ngatimozart

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Navy Today - Issue 273, January/February 2023 Royal New Zealand Navy | Navy Today - Issue 273, January/February 2023

RNZN is battle labbing miniguns. About time some of you will say.
"The goal is to be able to mount the weapon on selected fleet units, the future Littoral Manoeuvre Craft and future RHIBs"
Future Littoral manouvre craft??- any info on this?

No mention of helo mounts, but if the battle lab testig is positive it may happen.
Or M3M .50 would be good.
The M3M was battle labbed a few years ago and the army asked if the RNZN & RNZAF were interested. Never heard anything more about it, but I think that the M3M would be better for helos than the MAG-58. The miniguns are ideal but maybe to warlike for the current govt.
 

RegR

Well-Known Member
They will be the RHIB replacement.
Doubt they will be the RHIB replacements as at 12.5m way too big to fit the existing davits with maybe only Manawanui having one able to accomodate or as deck cargo for Man, the OPVs, CY or AO (ie limited hulls to deploy) so more likely replacements/complements for the current deployable littoral craft, which were designed to fit in the current C130s, as conveniently these would fit in the new J models. To put into perspective they are as big if not bigger then the SAS boats so not your average RHIB.
 

ngatimozart

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Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Doubt they will be the RHIB replacements as at 12.5m way too big to fit the existing davits with maybe only Manawanui having one able to accomodate or as deck cargo for Man, the OPVs, CY or AO (ie limited hulls to deploy) so more likely replacements/complements for the current deployable littoral craft, which were designed to fit in the current C130s, as conveniently these would fit in the new J models. To put into perspective they are as big if not bigger then the SAS boats so not your average RHIB.
There was a tender out for the RHIB replacement and that's why I thought so.
 

RegR

Well-Known Member
There was a tender out for the RHIB replacement and that's why I thought so.
It would make sense to keep it in the family in terms of support and logistics with either these or the relatively newish group boats.

Usually I generally have a chuckle at any suggestion we should/could make our own local vehicles/aircraft/weapons etc but actually in the case of Navy replacing the GP RHIB fleet I would like to think we do have the expertise and know how within NZ industry to confidently bid for that project as a whole with our maritime heritage and it's not often we can say that!
 

Nighthawk.NZ

Well-Known Member
They are only contracted for 3 of them and are being called a high-speed littoral manoeuvre craft (LMC). The article says 12.5m which is pretty big, just under twice the size off the average RHIB in the RNZN at 7.2m. Also being made from HDPE (me being a plastic fabricator my ears perked up) I guessing anti mine warefare???
 

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
They are only contracted for 3 of them and are being called a high-speed littoral manoeuvre craft (LMC). The article says 12.5m which is pretty big, just under twice the size off the average RHIB in the RNZN at 7.2m. Also being made from HDPE (me being a plastic fabricator my ears perked up) I guessing anti mine warefare???
Here you go, straight from GETS....

Background:
The LMC is one of a series of systems being procured as part of the Littoral Warfare Systems Project which seeks to provide the Royal New Zealand Navy deployable maritime capabilities, known as HMNZS MATATAUA with an improved ability to detect and respond to underwater threats through the provision of new and updated systems.

Littoral Warfare missions are supported by a number of boats, which are primarily controlled by MAT. Boats are a key enabler for the LW Force, with the majority of operations taking place either on or from them.

The LMC will be delivered as part of the LWS project. Its primary purpose is to tactically project Expeditionary Reconnaissance and Mine Counter Measures teams, complete with FC530 RHIB, from HMNZS MANAWANUI or a coalition platform over the horizon to the objective area. Once there, it will host the tactical commander, and act as a Control Point and communications relay.


Basically the FC530 zodiac will piggy-back on the LMC at speed to a deployment location then once deployed the LMC will act as oversight; comms & protection... plus allow a quick pull-out.

Not RHIB replacements but a new capability... one wonders if it is a concept used by other navies!?!
 

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
Sorry to change topic quickly but crikey scanned some 30 odd pages of DT's Navy & Maritime thread and couldn't find an Irish Naval Service thread so will post this here (and seeing there doesn't seem to be any Irish contributors to this forum anyway?), just noting the fact that two former RNZN IPV's have been formally handed over to the INS.


Seems the IPV's will also add a new capability to the INS.

Flag Officer Commanding the Naval Service, Commodore Michael Malone added:
"The IPV acquisition will augment fleet strength, introduce certain new Electronic Warfare and intelligence gathering capabilities and enhance the patrol profile of the Naval Service on the East coast at a time of increased recruitment effort. Their timely delivery is a vital part of the Naval Service’s HR regeneration efforts."​
Pics to prove it happened! (Cripes the Irish Minister's constituents seem a tad "pissed" - mind you it might also have been St Patricks Day at the time)!
 

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile HMNZS Canterbury is in Fiji for exercises with the RFMF and to conduct other govt taskings. Apparently Canterbury is also carrying two NH90's and an AW109LUH which will be on its first overseas deployment. Be great to find out a bit more about AW109 operations (eg simply light utility support or command, control and communication support for the NH90's)?

 

RubiconNZ

The Wanderer
That’s a negative to it fitting in the C130, even the J-30 would barely have a metre spare for length and the beam is too wide regardless.
 
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