Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
This week the Singapore-New Zealand Enhanced Partnership will also step up collaboration in

– trade and economics;
– security and defence;
– science, technology and innovation;
– and people-to-people links.

The prime ministers will also witness the signing of the upgraded Agreement between New Zealand and Singapore on a Closer Economic Partnership (ANZSCEP), around 17 or 18 May 2018. The ANZSCEP was Singapore’s first bilateral free trade agreement, and New Zealand’s second such agreement. It came into force in 2001.

Presently, Singapore and New Zealand cooperate closely on defence through platforms such as ADMM+ and the Five Power Defence Arrangements. I would support the growth of closer ties with NZDF, especially on technical training for crew and instructors for schools.
I agree and I think that a closer defence relationship and cooperation between Singapore and NZ is very desirable on all fronts.
The MRCV class of vessels is intended to be built between 2025 to 2030; and ST Marine will be keen to extend the production line by 2 to 3 ships - with the Singapore Navy keen to provide additional support in the area of operator training and technical support with respect to exchangeable modules to be introduced over time, as the 5,000 ton Vanguard 130 design is optimised for unmanned vehicle operations, and features flushed doors on its port and starboards sides to support launch and recovery of remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) and autonomous underwater vehicles (AUVs). While current UAVs can extend a ship’s field of vision by 100km because of their range, RADM Cheong said it’s likely that those on the MRCV can go farther. “In the future, this range will increase because the control capabilities will improve,” he added. “It’s not very far-fetched to say that easily the ship will have awareness of maybe 150km around it” (Read more at Meet the Navy’s new ‘mothership’ that fights with unmanned drones and vessels). The Singapore Navy will allocate space in courses for NZDF personnel to be trained in UAV, ROV and AUV support at sea that our DSTA is working hard on, especially on counter mine warfare.

From what I see, ST Marine has taken the Littoral Mission Vessel’s (“LMV”) manning concept and transplanted to this class of ship - for a maritime security role (reflecting on lessons learnt from our navy’s counter piracy deployments to the gulf); and their impressive bridge simulator. Complex simulators used by the navy will lower training costs, increase safety and improve scenario training for the crew. The MRCV is likely to use the existing LMV Combat Management System that features a fusion and identification engine to track contacts, and provide threat evaluation weapon assignment. And you can tap on the same spiral upgrades that we will introduce for this class of ships without NZ bearing cost overrun risks - as the Singapore Navy would have implemented the upgrade by then.
The MRCV does look interesting and well worth investigating. We would of course have our own requirements however UUV, USV, & UAV capability and integration would be appealing. We may also be looking at frigate capable AEGIS as well by then so any CMS will have to be include that. The JMMS is something else that would be worth having a close look at, especially if it's a LHD along the lines of the proposed ST E-170 design.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
AIUI RNZN is expected to lose 4 x IPV in order to get 1 x SOPV so they damn well need to spend top $$$ to get the right thing for the job... the southern ocean is a nasty place & the design needs to be robust & proven.
In the end it was 2 IPV's for the chop for one new SOPV with 2 to be retained. However, with the improving relationship with Fiji, a necessity to be more present in the South Pacific, saw them been able to be more fully utilised and forward deployed.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Looks like the Quartermaster on L421 forgot to order some Navy grey! Most probably been well deployed over the last six months.
In the old days sailors would've been over the side chipping and painting so that when she came alongside she looked tiddly. Now because of these outsourced maintenance contracts they aren't allowed to do that and they look like scran bags. Also I believe that the RNZN has changed the shade of battleship gray that it uses and Canterbury will have been painted in the old shade whereas Edda Fonn is in the new shade.
 

Xthenaki

Active Member
Running maintenance in "the old days" certainly kept ships "Spick and span". Now days with the emphasis on keeping our environment in better shape and the use of technology maintenance contracts are the way to go.
 

kiwipatriot69

Active Member
In the old days sailors would've been over the side chipping and painting so that when she came alongside she looked tiddly. Now because of these outsourced maintenance contracts they aren't allowed to do that and they look like scran bags. Also I believe that the RNZN has changed the shade of battleship gray that it uses and Canterbury will have been painted in the old shade whereas Edda Fonn is in the new shade.
How often do they paint the ships? Are the navy helicopters done at the same time?
 

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Um, the quartermaster in a ship is responsible for steering it at sea (with the assistance of some helmsmen) when Special Sea Dutymen are not closed up, and for providing gangway security when not under way. The people in the Navy responsible for ordering things for the ship work for somebody variously called the Logistics or Supply Officer. Quartermaster in a supply context is an Army term.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
This week the Singapore-New Zealand Enhanced Partnership will also step up collaboration in

– trade and economics;
– security and defence;
– science, technology and innovation;
– and people-to-people links.

The prime ministers will also witness the signing of the upgraded Agreement between New Zealand and Singapore on a Closer Economic Partnership (ANZSCEP), around 17 or 18 May 2018. The ANZSCEP was Singapore’s first bilateral free trade agreement, and New Zealand’s second such agreement. It came into force in 2001.

Presently, Singapore and New Zealand cooperate closely on defence through platforms such as ADMM+ and the Five Power Defence Arrangements. I would support the growth of closer ties with NZDF, especially on technical training for crew and instructors for schools.

The MRCV class of vessels is intended to be built between 2025 to 2030; and ST Marine will be keen to extend the production line by 2 to 3 ships - with the Singapore Navy keen to provide additional support in the area of operator training and technical support with respect to exchangeable modules to be introduced over time, as the 5,000 ton Vanguard 130 design is optimised for unmanned vehicle operations, and features flushed doors on its port and starboards sides to support launch and recovery of remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) and autonomous underwater vehicles (AUVs). While current UAVs can extend a ship’s field of vision by 100km because of their range, RADM Cheong said it’s likely that those on the MRCV can go farther. “In the future, this range will increase because the control capabilities will improve,” he added. “It’s not very far-fetched to say that easily the ship will have awareness of maybe 150km around it” (Read more at Meet the Navy’s new ‘mothership’ that fights with unmanned drones and vessels). The Singapore Navy will allocate space in courses for NZDF personnel to be trained in UAV, ROV and AUV support at sea that our DSTA is working hard on, especially on counter mine warfare.

From what I see, ST Marine has taken the Littoral Mission Vessel’s (“LMV”) manning concept and transplanted to this class of ship - for a maritime security role (reflecting on lessons learnt from our navy’s counter piracy deployments to the gulf); and their impressive bridge simulator. Complex simulators used by the navy will lower training costs, increase safety and improve scenario training for the crew. The MRCV is likely to use the existing LMV Combat Management System that features a fusion and identification engine to track contacts, and provide threat evaluation weapon assignment. And you can tap on the same spiral upgrades that we will introduce for this class of ships without NZ bearing cost overrun risks - as the Singapore Navy would have implemented the upgrade by then.
Though I am yet to see the more comprehensive details there seems to be a similar philosophy underpinning ST's MRCV design and that of MHI's 30FFM for the JMSDF in that littoral mission capabilities are given emphasis alongside the traditional frigate role understandably in the context of the western Pacific rim. Both vessels are of similar sized per 5000t plus and 130m. It will be fascinating to see this platform and the 30FFM develop over the next few years.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
The MRCV does look interesting and well worth investigating. We would of course have our own requirements however UUV, USV, & UAV capability and integration would be appealing. We may also be looking at frigate capable AEGIS as well by then so any CMS will have to be include that.
EASR and COMBATT21-SS + MRCV = quite an interesting future surface combatant proposal for the RNZN?
 

40 deg south

Well-Known Member
Nova
I was just about to post that link, but you beat me to it!

However, the whole premise of the article seems a bit suspect to me. The Vard spokesman suggested that the two Protector-class OPVs are due to be replaced around 2022 due to heavy use in the southern ocean. None of the NZ defence planning documents I've seen suggest this.

The official view expressed in the previous government's Defence Capability Plan is that a specialist 'southern OPV' with some ice protection (and presumably built like the proverbial brick outhouse) would be purchased for sub-antarctic patrols, and the existing OPVs would be used around NZ and in parts further north. The Protector-class OPVs are only about 10 years old, and if replaced in 2022 would be under 15 yrs. In NZ service, that hardly counts as being 'run in'.

The current government's updated DCP is nearing nine months overdue, so it could conceivably signal a change of direction. It will certainly catch a lot of people by surprise if it signals the early retirement of the current OPVs.

Is the Vard 7 series the same base platform as Canada's AOPS?
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Nova
I was just about to post that link, but you beat me to it!

However, the whole premise of the article seems a bit suspect to me. The Vard spokesman suggested that the two Protector-class OPVs are due to be replaced around 2022 due to heavy use in the southern ocean. None of the NZ defence planning documents I've seen suggest this.

The official view expressed in the previous government's Defence Capability Plan is that a specialist 'southern OPV' with some ice protection (and presumably built like the proverbial brick outhouse) would be purchased for sub-antarctic patrols, and the existing OPVs would be used around NZ and in parts further north. The Protector-class OPVs are only about 10 years old, and if replaced in 2022 would be under 15 yrs. In NZ service, that hardly counts as being 'run in'.

The current government's updated DCP is nearing nine months overdue, so it could conceivably signal a change of direction. It will certainly catch a lot of people by surprise if it signals the early retirement of the current OPVs.

Is the Vard 7 series the same base platform as Canada's AOPS?
Perhaps they are talking about replacing the Protector class Inshore patrol vessels. For some confusing reason the OPVs and IPVs are both called the Protector class.
 

Novascotiaboy

Active Member
40 deg South the "Harry Dewolfe" is the Vard 7 Ice.

The first has been in the water since last year and has been experiencing first of class teething problems. She is due to be handed over to the RCN later this year. The second has just had the bow section mega block rolled out of the assembly hall and its being attached.

I like the lines of the new offering and the increased size of the bow cannon over the typical 25 mm in RNZN service is nice to see.

Hauritz given the low build cost of all the Protector fleet maybe the initial lack of investment is showing today in the build not being able to handle the extremes to which they have been exposed? Instead of one new SOPV maybe the intention is to acquire a new fleet of vessels for domestic operations replacing the current OPVs and IPVs?

Maybe their time in RNZN service has provided a learning opportunity and revised design work may allow fit for purpose hulls. Given the constant talk of recruitment and retention issues regarding personnel having better vessels with more automation allowing reduced staffing is the plan?

Four multi purpose OPVs sure is better than two overworked OPVs and the four under worked IPVs.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Nova
I was just about to post that link, but you beat me to it!

However, the whole premise of the article seems a bit suspect to me. The Vard spokesman suggested that the two Protector-class OPVs are due to be replaced around 2022 due to heavy use in the southern ocean. None of the NZ defence planning documents I've seen suggest this.

The official view expressed in the previous government's Defence Capability Plan is that a specialist 'southern OPV' with some ice protection (and presumably built like the proverbial brick outhouse) would be purchased for sub-antarctic patrols, and the existing OPVs would be used around NZ and in parts further north. The Protector-class OPVs are only about 10 years old, and if replaced in 2022 would be under 15 yrs. In NZ service, that hardly counts as being 'run in'.

The current government's updated DCP is nearing nine months overdue, so it could conceivably signal a change of direction. It will certainly catch a lot of people by surprise if it signals the early retirement of the current OPVs.

Is the Vard 7 series the same base platform as Canada's AOPS?
The RCN AOPS is the Vard 7-100-ICE, which I think is the better option for SOPV, because by the time we order one and start building it should be derisked. Also they have the VARD 7 100 - Vard Marine which would be an ideal replacement for the current Protector class OPVs. For the IPV replacement maybe the VARD 7 055 - Vard Marine or the VARD 7 065 - Vard Marine. Yes we await the DCP. They who wait also serve. The old service carry on - hurry up and wait. :D
 

oldsig127

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Perhaps they are talking about replacing the Protector class Inshore patrol vessels. For some confusing reason the OPVs and IPVs are both called the Protector class.
Because they were all built as part of "Project Protector"

You're lucky that HMNZS Canterbury isn't also called Protector Class, because it was similarly built as part of the project. Three different types, one class..

Very economical people, the Kiwis. It explains the use of one all purpose vowel too.

oldsig
 
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