Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Padman
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Link to PDF with Internal Arrangements. PDF is to large to upload. Repeats much of the detail given by NG but gives some additional details regarding fuel consumption, differs slightly on speed. Slightly on the aged side @ 15 years but that was never a problem for the navy when looking at ships taken up from trade. Overall not a bad acquisition - I've already worked out where the Wardroom and Senior Rates mess will go - just can't figure out where to hide the beer store.
The way I see this is she's an older ship that's probably been well flogged in the North Sea, she's nearing the end of her economic life, the owner is selling her off after her current contract is up, which means they won't need to pay for a major survey before going onto a new contract. IMO the NZ govt have bought another Charles Upham.
Yeah pretty happy with the specs - good sized moon-pool & cranage, good onboard facilities, chopper pad ... RNZN should be quite happy. Initial thoughts was 15 years old was a little older than I expected but you're right Lucasnz... a ship of this type doesn't age systems-wise in quite the same way a FFG would... these are physical workhorses and with upgrades etc she'll serve the RNZN well for at least 25 years I'm picking.
AIUI the LOSC capability is shelved, not dropped. Regards to the beer fridge, that mini-moonpool will be a perfect place to chill off the beer prior to 'refreshments' being served...just hope they remember it'll need to be secured otherwise the divers will have an urgent rescue mission on their hands!
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Except the Charles Upham was trying to turn an old cargo ship into something it wasnt ment to be, whereas this was built for the intended purpose, no major refit requried.And how many years was Manuwanui in service, despite being second hand, 30 yrs?
As Lucas will concur, the beer being lost from the moonpool thru deep sixing won't be the problem, it'll be the bubble heads never ending thirst that will be the problem. It is written in their standing orders never to share beer.Regards to the beer fridge, that mini-moonpool will be a perfect place to chill off the beer prior to 'refreshments' being served...just hope they remember it'll need to be secured otherwise the divers will have an urgent rescue mission on their hands!
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
One this im curious about though is i read ice class "c" rating, did i read that right, does that mean it can potentially assist in antarctic waters like the resuply of mcmurdo? And if it can handle a Super Puma, is that comparitve size to a NH90? Im getting slight variations in size from online aviation sources.
IIRC the 1C rating is the current Protector OPV rating. It depends which country's rating system is being used. Regarding the flight deck rating, the Super Puma is about 1 tonne and a tad and a bit lighter than the NH90, so to use the NH90 the flight deck will have to be strengthened to 11 tonnes to be rated for the NH90. Given the location and accessibility of the flight deck, it may not be that difficult, however I am not an engineer.
Thinking about some of the likely changes RNZN may make, I'd imagine they'd want a couple of RHIBs... most likely spot for davits would be in the area either side of the modular handling tower (sitting above the moonpool); a couple of manually operated HMG's (as previous Manawanui had); decompression chamber (AIUI the pan is for a TEU based module); small-arms armoury. Guess helideck strengthening may need doing but yes Ngati on paper it should be fairly straight forward. Anything else?
edit: oh yeah and a wet diving bell!
Just hope no 'nasties' are uncovered once the modifications start.
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kiwipatriot69
Active Member
I suppose though not ideal, the super seasprites the navy has could be used given the weight issues? Save modification.
Yes no doubt there will be as many, if not more SH-2G landings on the new vessel than there will be NH-90 ones, but I dare say prudent thinking will ensure the NH-90 should be catered for. Then there's the potential for allies choppers (esp. ADF NH-90 & FANC Puma). Given the flight deck can take a super puma that is only slightly lighter & shorter, it shouldn't be a job of marathon proportions... but again I'm no engineer.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
There is a bit more info on the Navy Facebook page, including that she will also be renamed the Manawanui with a home port of Gisborne.
Govt buys new navy ship with remaining money after frigate blowout
Also media coverage from Stuff with the usual inane comments section.
I have mixed feelings - the overall specs are adequate and the capability gap needs to be plugged. Still, $100 million for a 15-year-old vessel doesn't seem like great value. A real shame the frigate costs came in over budget, and a purpose-build littoral vessel was sacrificed to make up the difference.
Govt buys new navy ship with remaining money after frigate blowout
Also media coverage from Stuff with the usual inane comments section.
I have mixed feelings - the overall specs are adequate and the capability gap needs to be plugged. Still, $100 million for a 15-year-old vessel doesn't seem like great value. A real shame the frigate costs came in over budget, and a purpose-build littoral vessel was sacrificed to make up the difference.
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My view is that the current govt is playing politics with that claim, because I am positive that any frigate upgrade shortfall could have been covered in the 2018 budget with a supplementary allocation without any drama. @MrConservative will be able to comment more accurately whether or not this would have been quite feasible.
The 1A1 Ice-C rating is used by Det Norske Veritas which is actually the equivalent of the Protector class OPV's.
https://www.trafi.fi/filebank/a/151...04_03_04_01_00_2016_Vastaavuusluettelo_EN.pdf
Can be used in light ice so unless Antarctica melts it wont be resupplying McMurdo not that they would ever use it for that. They are getting a much more heavily ice strengthened (PC-6 which is equivalent to 1A1 Ice-A) AOR that can transport a lot more people and gear then what she can.
As to the cost of the vessel can't say I'm too impressed. Either that $103m is mostly made up of modifications or they over paid. Australia got the ADV Ocean Protector when it was 8 years old for give or take 50 million and she is a much larger more capable ship and was only 8 years old when we acquired her.
https://www.trafi.fi/filebank/a/151...04_03_04_01_00_2016_Vastaavuusluettelo_EN.pdf
Can be used in light ice so unless Antarctica melts it wont be resupplying McMurdo not that they would ever use it for that. They are getting a much more heavily ice strengthened (PC-6 which is equivalent to 1A1 Ice-A) AOR that can transport a lot more people and gear then what she can.
As to the cost of the vessel can't say I'm too impressed. Either that $103m is mostly made up of modifications or they over paid. Australia got the ADV Ocean Protector when it was 8 years old for give or take 50 million and she is a much larger more capable ship and was only 8 years old when we acquired her.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
So happy to see progress on this project. This will be a fantastic addition to the RNZN and the NZDF as a whole. If this was a vessel manufactured in China and was 15 years old I would be concerned but it is a Norwegian built vessel. These ships are well built and well maintained as witnessed by similar vessels operating out of Halifax over the years.
If the upgrades can be completed in NZ this is an excellent opportunity for NZ engineering companies to show their capabilities. I haven't had a chance to get too deep into the layouts as I am at work but will comment later. If you compare the costs to what we Canadians are about to pay for the acquisition and upgrade of three similar sized vessels for use by the Coast Guard, yet with less sophistication, $610 million then I would say you got a good deal at $103 million.
This is a big ship compared to Manawanui with very significant sub sea capabilities. Congratulations RNZN you have done well for yourselves.
If the upgrades can be completed in NZ this is an excellent opportunity for NZ engineering companies to show their capabilities. I haven't had a chance to get too deep into the layouts as I am at work but will comment later. If you compare the costs to what we Canadians are about to pay for the acquisition and upgrade of three similar sized vessels for use by the Coast Guard, yet with less sophistication, $610 million then I would say you got a good deal at $103 million.
This is a big ship compared to Manawanui with very significant sub sea capabilities. Congratulations RNZN you have done well for yourselves.
We don't know how much of that $103m is ship base price. There could be all sorts of things included in that price, like specialized dive/hydrography equipment, machinery overhaul/refurb, RHIBs, guns and training costs. I doubt the navy would be happy with 15 year old civilian navigation, radar, communication and control systems. If I was them, I'd want a mil spec underwater communication system at the very least. And that's NZD, so $93m Aus or $69m US.
The flight deck strengthening could possibly be one of the cost items already in the $103m. That may help explain the large-ish cost.
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kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Was just thinking exchange rates and installed systems costs ,thanks. Still, no reason i suppose it cant do a few runs down to the kermadecs like HMNZS Canterbury
I doubt that they need to strengthen the flight deck. These ships were all designed to handle medium helos, NH 90 style.
The article lists modifications, training and bringing into service as included in the price and if you search for Edda Fonn you can see the flight deck details.
The flight deck strengthening speculation stems from the Edda Fonn spec sheet which lists 9.3 tons for the flight deck, which is a little light for a loaded NH90. But you could be right, it may be strong enough as is.