Thanks Reg for you considered reply.Could you possibly post links to some of these findings (I'm a sucker for putting names to claims) as some of what I have been sourcing somewhat contradicts or does not match up and I am unsure why organisations such as MFAT, MPI, customs and indeed navy would say one thing if they mean another especially if it is not in their interest to do so and merely creates confusion.
I would'nt assume radio live is prone to making up things but I guess wikipedia shows anything is possible.
Customs lacks resources to patrol NZ seas | Radio New Zealand News
Alittle coincidental this report is also around the time the IPVs were being parked up but I'm sure their crews had other more pressing jobs.
Warning over Navy patrol cuts | Radio New Zealand News
If even the navy admitted they had crewing issues in 2013 then I'm inclined to believe them and even if they recruited immediately after this there is still no way those pers would be fully qualified in the skilled trades even now, taking into account actual naval training/activity times before they even begin their trade training for specific roles. I spent a career in the forces doing courses and nothing happens overnight in fact they would still be considered junior now if anything dependant on what level of seniority, experience and skill level left initially and therefore slots that needed replacement. I also have naval friends who have either recently had postings cut short, trips denied or roles adjusted to fill slots so unsure why you could'nt possibly think of ships being mothballed due to manning issues and it's therefore BS? If so then as there should have been 2 spare crews floating around (pun intended) for the remaining IPVs/OPV then these should have at least been able to meet if not exceed their proposed at sea days, figures show this was not the case, or did we just stop all together? On the plus side they have probably been promoted quicker then they otherwise would have considering.
MPI also states we have 1300 commercial fishing vessels in NZ with 50 of these deep sea vessels including 26 international (I assume these would be the likely candidates for monitors and cameras as well as they catch 60% of our fish) that are permitted to fish in our EEZ so a few more than 300 to patrol unless the rest have recently parked up in the past 2-3 years?
The same report that stipulated we ideally have 3 OPV in the same vein reccommended 5 IPV as well so obviously we don't always get what we ask for but seems they did in fact ask regardless (or at least someone did). Is the statement navy did not want IPVs in an official document somewhere as I would be interested to see their reasonings and updated data to support in regards.
Now don't get me wrong I understand an OPV would be far superior to an IPV in terms of capability in most instances I am just more wondering if it is more of a case of you can have this OR have that (a classic NZDF trait) but you need to choose as we are not going to pay for both regardless of role and is mainly being pushed by lack of resources vs lack of requirement as TBH the conducted patrols by even the remaining fleet is pitiful IMO when surely the remaining should be getting used more if anything to compensate? 9 days this year so far for fisheries across the 'patrol fleet' to me seems alittle inadequate even if they are just burning diesel considering protection/patrolling of our EEZ should be a cornerstone of our navy. Seems to me they are justifying a 3rd OPV for EEZ reach when we barely even seem to be doing that. Actual patrol days (incl OPV) have been steadily declining for the past 5 years and while I'm sure technology can account for some I'm quite sure there are underlying reasons as well.
I get you think IPVs are a waste of rations and OPVs are the way of the future and I am not arguing the benefit of a 3rd OPV (just as I support 3 frigates) however I just feel they are being alittle disingenuous in their reasonings behind their (IPV) sudden fall from grace and expecting more from them knowing full well they would be unsuited and thus creating doubts to their ability, I would rather them just blatantly say we cannot afford both options instead of making excuses as to why they essentially sunk $60m.
Whilst I may resign to the fact Brownlee will sell off these ships to fund something else does not automatically mean I will agree with it and it's much akin to how me and Helen disagreed over the ACF decision and I guess how others look at that. Oh well yet another downgrade/upgrade in the NZDF toolbox, lets see how it goes over time.
I have changed the 300 claim of registered commercial fishing license holders to 1300 as you correctly state. I accepted my faulty memory on the numbers though the principle still stands that following the rationalisation of the commercial industry and the transfer of quotas to fewer players has completely changed the local fishing industry. There are far fewer small scale players than in the past.
Incidently I have zero trust in the NZ MSM and always assume that they are stretching the truth.
Customs have long wanted replacement vessels. They did their own needs review following the 2000 Maritime Review They are again pushing for this as it was something promoted again during the recent Martyn Dunne tenure. The following document outlines this on pages 18-30.
http://www.dpmc.govt.nz/sites/all/files/publications/annex_iv_customs.pdf
Customs only have the 16m launch Hawk IV. What they really have been after is two 30-40m vessels and two inshore craft larger and more stable than the Hawk IV. They have had interest in a Q-West type vessel for that inshore role.
Customs now want to run their own show and not be tied into the patrolling patterns of MFish or the Navy. They are actually more intel lead and reactive by necessity than MFish's patrolling requirements. There areas of interest are also different - the Cook strait and the BOI / Hauraki Gulf. They are also wanting interception at and beyond the 24nm zone for larger vessel boarding.
Looking through the lens of the Navy per crew manning numbers wise will never allow one to get to the actual issue here. If numbers are an issue it is in the competing training methodologies that a small navy has to endure and not the emphasis of the actual manning numbers of sailors to sea (or is that ship person or something from now on). Frigates v OPV's v IPV's - plus the specialist AOR, MCM and CY.
The sea tasking requirements MFish and Customs are essentially incompatible with each other. They want to be in different places and approach a target differently. One role (MFish) is more overt the other role (Customs) is more covert and directed in interception. One wants to be around the Campbell Islands monitoring Korean Factory Ships or 200ks off the West Coast when the other wants to be north of Great Barrier intercepting a private yacht or inspecting a 40000 tonne container ship.
The one size fits all solution of the IPV's is not helping any of the interested parties to deliver their remits to the government. No one is winning at present. In a way the policy failure comes down to loading the civilian parties onto a compromised vessel.
The Maritime Forces Review 16 years ago did indeed suggest 3 OPV's and 5 IPV's. It did not speculate on size requirements of the vessels at the time.
In many respects what should have happened is what may eventuate if all parties now get their way.
1. Customs get the vessels that they were after to monitor their geographically specific choke points. Two 30-40m vessels that they have long envisaged supplemented by 2 smaller vessels around the 20-24m size.
2. Fisheries get similar vessels that suit there specific needs. They could operate jointly as an NZ Maritime Boarder Security Service but have the right resources to meet their needs out to 24nm. Funded staffed and manned accordingly.
3. The RNZN gets the 3rd OPV to conduct tasking specifically in the deep South and South West. This will leave the Civilian agencies in conjunction with the NMCC to look after their very different tasking requirements in very different localities, whilst the RNZN can deliver the long range persistent enforcement where it best meets the EEZ needs. Ideally of course with a 4th OPV then NZ can also conduct the emerging South Pacific Patrols to protect the outer EEZ of the island states.
What is evolving is an eventual transition away from a one size fits all policy that has not worked for any of the parties per the IPV's. Defence wants to recover more of its core military role, both Customs and MFish as the most evoked EEZ parties want to be able to focus on ending their competing needs without the tasking compromises that have stemmed from incompatible vessels. The IPV's are too big and possibly too few for one role and too small for the other.
Smaller inshore patrol vessels operated by the current customers to suit their needs. Even if it is under combined flag of a Maritime Border Protection Agency - buy having the maritime constabulary taskings under their control and budgets we could ring fence that out of the NZDF equation. Yes the NZDF can chime on in with the outer EEZ stuff where bigger and more specialised vessels and indeed aircraft are needed.
As to canning the IPV’s - I actually agree with it. I do not see it as a downgrade but a way for solving the current incompatibility of solely using the RNZN to look after the competing maritime needs of 6 other government agencies that have competing interests within our inner EEZ, Customs and MFish in particular. By taking the NZDF substantially out of the equation and letting the civilian agencies take ownership is better for the nation as a whole.
If all 4 IPV's can be converted into 2 further OPV's joining the Otago and the Wellington to make 4 OPV's, one of which is specifically built for SO/Antarctic tasking, plus a new larger LWSV, a new MPSV, the CY and the 2 upgraded frigates, well all we would be missing then is the 3rd frigate. That is the pathway back to a good little Navy again and not half a little Navy and half a little Coastguard.
The good little 'coastguard' or 'maritime security service' can be formed from Customs and Fisheries and the other civilian agency partners. Maybe the a couple of the Pacific Patrol Vessels coming through from Australia in the next few years would be ideal with four 20m Cats from a local builder like Q-West.
Cheers MrC
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