Royal New Zealand Air Force

[Bloke]

Nope they are part of the ADF MRH-90 pool and the Australian Army will have them. There’s no intent to divest them from the ADF.

The news has changed today. Entire fleet to be retired in favour of Blackhawks. I'd post a link, but I don't think I can.

Mod edit, via addition of a link for you.

ADF overhaul: PM to axe entire Taipan helicopter fleet in multi-billion pivot to US

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has announced the ADF’s entire Taipan fleet of army and navy helicopters will be replaced with US alternatives in a $7 billion switch.

www.skynews.com.au

 

[Bloke]

Blackhawks

 

[ngatimozart]

The news has changed today. Entire fleet to be retired in favour of Blackman's. I'd post a link, but I don't think I can.

Yep you can post links. There's nothing stopping you. It's common knowing now.

 

[Preceptor]

The news has changed today. Entire fleet to be retired in favour of Blackman's. I'd post a link, but I don't think I can.

IIRC some time ago (likely several years now) a restriction was added so that posters had to have a post count of 10+ in order to add links to a post. This was done after a spate of spammers hitting the forum.
-Preceptor

 

[Bloke]

IIRC some time ago (likely several years now) a restriction was added so that posters had to have a post count of 10+ in order to add links to a post. This was done after a spate of spammers hitting the forum.
-Preceptor

That's what I understood. I don't post much.

 

[ImJustDubzzz]

Does this mean the RNZAF could potentially purchase some of the lower hour MRH-90s seeing as there aren't enough to go around? Maybe we could get a good deal like the seasprites again

 

[KiwiRob]

Interesting times, it should also be noted that one of our NH-90's has become the first NH-90 to accumulate 2000 flight hours. The next NH90 to achieve this milestone will also be one of ours. Which probably indicates that our small fleet is being over worked, buying a few of the younger lower hour Aussie NH90's might be a really good idea.

A RNZAF NH90 First to Reach 2,000 Flight Hours

Royal New Zealand Air Force NH90 TTH serial 3302 was the first in the world of its type to reach 2,000 flying hours

www.helis.com

 

[Rob c]

Interesting times, it should also be noted that one of our NH-90's has become the first NH-90 to accumulate 2000 flight hours. The next NH90 to achieve this milestone will also be one of ours. Which probably indicates that our small fleet is being over worked, buying a few of the younger lower hour Aussie NH90's might be a really good idea.

A RNZAF NH90 First to Reach 2,000 Flight Hours

Royal New Zealand Air Force NH90 TTH serial 3302 was the first in the world of its type to reach 2,000 flying hours

www.helis.com

But you have also realize that this also means that at least we can keep our NH90's flying when we want them unlike some other operators. As I mentioned in a post in the geostrategic section , the NH90 is very expensive to fly, so the question would be will the government come up with the extra operational funding as well.

 

[swerve]

Is that the marginal cost per hour, or the number of hours divided by the cost of the fleet? If the latter, does it include depreciation, or anything like the UK government 'capital charge', i.e. an interest charge on the capital tied up in the fleet?

There have been cases where a type has a problem which causes a significant number of the fleet to be grounded. That causes the cost per flying hour to go up (fixed costs divided by fewer hours). So, some bright spark orders flying to be curtailed. Think about what happens next . . .

And things like capital charges can cause sound & useful assets to be scrapped because the armed forces are charged by the Treasury for keeping them. Attrition reserves? War stocks? Not in my accounting rules . . . .

 

[KiwiRob]

Interesting times, it should also be noted that one of our NH-90's has become the first NH-90 to accumulate 2000 flight hours. The next NH90 to achieve this milestone will also be one of ours. Which probably indicates that our small fleet is being over worked, buying a few of the younger lower hour Aussie NH90's might be a really good idea.

A RNZAF NH90 First to Reach 2,000 Flight Hours

Royal New Zealand Air Force NH90 TTH serial 3302 was the first in the world of its type to reach 2,000 flying hours

www.helis.com

But you have also realize that this also means that at least we can keep our NH90's flying when we want them unlike some other operators. As I mentioned in a post in the geostrategic section , the NH90 is very expensive to fly, so the question would be will the government come up with the extra operational funding as well.

Buying additional frames doesn’t mean increasing operations it just means spreading the existing tasking over more frames, this will probably reduce the maintenance cost.

 

[Shanesworld]

Interesting times, it should also be noted that one of our NH-90's has become the first NH-90 to accumulate 2000 flight hours. The next NH90 to achieve this milestone will also be one of ours. Which probably indicates that our small fleet is being over worked, buying a few of the younger lower hour Aussie NH90's might be a really good idea.

A RNZAF NH90 First to Reach 2,000 Flight Hours

Royal New Zealand Air Force NH90 TTH serial 3302 was the first in the world of its type to reach 2,000 flying hours

www.helis.com

Buying additional frames doesn’t mean increasing operations it just means spreading the existing tasking over more frames, this will probably reduce the maintenance cost.

Or possibly buy enough additional frames to part out and avoid some of the expensive supply chain?
It is a compromised layput for a military helicopter though. Cant even mount a gpmg without limiting eggress.

 

[recce.k1]

Or possibly buy enough additional frames to part out and avoid some of the expensive supply chain?
It is a compromised layput for a military helicopter though. Cant even mount a gpmg without limiting eggress.

That could be a worthwhile justification to explore ... to acquire "several" airframes/helos primarily for spares (at a reduced cost therefore reduced capital charge and depreciation costs to the NZDF budget - would require a "small" increase to overall budget to cover this), with the potential to also acquire "several" more airframes (non-flyable) to replace the six SH-2F's (used as training aids) at the RNZAF Ground Training Wing!

Operationally, would acquiring additional flyable airframes be wise when considering the "cost per flight hour" issues (facing the ADF)? NZ costs seems to be lower than the reported AU$36,000-50,000/hr (ASPI Strategist article), would that change (increase) if the MRH variant was introduced?

And how would it effect wider NZDF helicopter replacement planning (eg does RNZN prefer Sikorsky for the Seasprite replacements due to interoperability with the Navies it will most work with in the Indo-Pacific, the RAN and USN) etc?

So perhaps as spares, training and attrition airframes ... but operationally not sure except to say it could be chance to obtain additional flyable airframes 'cheaply" and if 3 Sqn has 12 flying crews it does suggest a few more airframes could be useful.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

Does this mean the RNZAF could potentially purchase some of the lower hour MRH-90s seeing as there aren't enough to go around? Maybe we could get a good deal like the seasprites again

hahahah.... hahaha.... breathe Nighthawk breathe in through the nose out through the mouth.... breathe Bwhahahaha...

You do know that this government doesn't want to spend money like that, and wouldn't see a good deal like that even if it was dropped at their feet and with the words "very very good deal" and "Don't miss this opportunity" written all over it.

 

[KiwiRob]

Or possibly buy enough additional frames to part out and avoid some of the expensive supply chain?
It is a compromised layput for a military helicopter though. Cant even mount a gpmg without limiting eggress.

why wouldn’t they egress out the rear ramp? The gpmgs could be providing covering fire as the soldiers go out the back, they couldn’t safely use the door guns with troops exiting the same doors.

 

[Shanesworld]

why wouldn’t they egress out the rear ramp? The gpmgs could be providing covering fire as the soldiers go out the back, they couldn’t safely use the door guns with troops exiting the same doors.

You can rear ramp it. But its still limiting. And the tail rotor means you have to stream to one side which as a section setting up all round d on the drop is not optimal. Workable but still limiting. But black hawk you de plane both sides and near enough have all round d. And airbus gives the gunners the massive door area that they dont need in comparison to the window on a blackhawk but is too small for troops with packs on to get past and your crossing his arcs while you unloading. Its just a shit layout. Its an after thought which for military utility transport with assault transport as a primary role is way too much of an after thought

 

[ngatimozart]

why wouldn’t they egress out the rear ramp? The gpmgs could be providing covering fire as the soldiers go out the back, they couldn’t safely use the door guns with troops exiting the same doors.

Yes you can deplane by the ramp, but the tail rotor is a rather dangerous hazard. The USMC emplane /deplane their CH-53E via the tail ramp and they don't have the same problem because as you will see in the video below, the tail rotor is quite high. The video shows them emplaning a squad into the aircraft.

If you look at the video below of a RNZAF NH90 you can see that the lost point of the tail rotor arc is almost level with the top point of the ramp. You can train people to deplane the aircraft via the ramp at an angle away from the aircraft, but you never guarantee that everyone will do it 100% of the time. It only takes one soldier to walk / run into the tail rotor and you have an avoidable fatality and a u/s aircraft. The tail rotors aren't designed for the rapid dissection of the human anatomy and combat helmets etc. In peacetime that's bad enough, however in a combat situation that's the probable loss of a valuable asset.

 

[recce.k1]

Interesting to see the NH90 doing a rolling takeoff, is that standard operating procedure at their home air base (Ohakea) too?

 

[ngatimozart]

Interesting to see the NH90 doing a rolling takeoff, is that standard operating procedure at their home air base (Ohakea) too?

I don't know. I haven't seen one in the flesh yet. Would've been a bit hard to do in the old Irowhokka.

 

[Bloke]

There are photos on the internet showing a gun mounted in the window behind the sliding door, thereby leaving the door completely unobstructed. Is there any knowledge as to why this solution has not been adopted?
The fact that the images appear to be mfrs promo shots may have something to do with it.
Google Image Result for https://fullfatthings-keyaero.b-cdn.net/sites/keyaero/files/comment_forum/2014/08/02/nh%2090.jpg

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Let me get this straight. People have been getting on and off Puma helicopters with a GPMG mounted on a swing arm in both doors for around half a century. But suddenly conducting such a task is now in the to hard category when using an NH90?