Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
Whiplash34
Member
I know mate....but $40M a pop plus associated costs, training blah, blah, blah. Pollies are not that forward thinking and the funds do not appear to be there.
It would really round out our rotary wing nicely though...!
That would be awesome, but, IMO, if there was extra rotary money in the acquisition budget I'd rather get more NH90s. Better to have larger numbers of one type than small numbers of many types (maintenance, spares and training nightmare).
The NH90 is perfectly capable of moving an underslung 105mm...
Whiplash34
Member
Cool, didn’t know they had that capability, thanks beegeeThat would be awesome, but, IMO, if there was extra rotary money in the acquisition budget I'd rather get more NH90s. Better to have larger numbers of one type than small numbers of many types (maintenance, spares and training nightmare).
Stop talking sense....
The NH90 is perfectly capable of moving an underslung 105mm...
Whiplash34
Member
Uuugh.....I’m hesitant to post this up given it’s from MSM but for interest sake, Dassault are offering up a replacement option for the RNZAF 757’s, albeit solely for the VIP transport role.
Dassault touts its Falcon 8X as a replacement for New Zealand's ageing Boeing 757s
Dassault touts its Falcon 8X as a replacement for New Zealand's ageing Boeing 757s
There is about a NZ$10 million difference in the flyaway cost between each A400M and C-2 with the C-2 being more expensive. Factor in the WOLC (Whole Of Life Costs) of roughly another NZ$5 million per aircraft it soon adds up. We don't know the numbers of aircraft that will be acquired because nothing official has been stated. Yes there have been numbers bandied around on the social media, but they are about as reliable as a pollies promises during an election.
When you compare the the A400M to the C-130J on costs alone the C-130J wins hands down, but on all other metrics, even on its ground pressure footprint, it runs a poor second.
I would like to see the NZDF acquire some CH-47 Chooks because there is a need for rotary wing heavy lift. The Chooks can lillypad on Canterbury, but the ANZAC FFH AFAIK would not be able to handle Chooks due to the weight and size of the Chooks. Aotearoa, I am unsure about whether of not it can lillypad a Chook. I will endeavour to find out. I would also like to see us acquiring 2 - 4 more fully marinised NH-90 TTH helos because we are well short of them, or 2 fully marinised NH-90 TTH along with 3 CH-47 Chooks, plus fully marinise the 8 NH-90 TTH that we already have. I am also of the opinion that we should acquire 1 or 2 more P-8 with them being ordered within 2 years because the production line will close, most likely in 2024. Long lead items will have to be ordered by 2021. I think that we will need 5 to 6 P-8, not 4, plus RPAS for unmanned long range persistence surveillance and some tier 3 MPA for EEZ patrolling.
The geopolitical situation in the Indo Pacific and wider area is deteriorating, with little hope of it returning to what has been the norm, for the previous 70 years, in the foreseeable future. As Bob Dylan said, the times they are a changing and in this case not for the good. Unfortunately the Kiwi political and public service elite have their collective heads stuck firmly in a bubble of silver ferns, lattes and herbal teas, refusing to acknowledge that there are bad times a coming and that there are fundamental tectonic shifts occurring in the geopolitical and geostrategic worlds, which will shake the whole world to its core.
Nope wouldn't be able to lift some MPs and their inflight rations.
The difference between an NH90 TTH and NH90 MTTH is that the MTTH has the folding rotor & blade assembly and the uprated undercarriage from the NHF. The NH90's composite airframe was designed from the outset to operate in the marine, desert and alpine environments.
It takes a special kind of stupid to order 8 NH90's and not select the MTTH variant with the folding blades and uprated undercarriage from the outset when you have just also ordered a multi-role vessel with a hanger for four such aircraft.
It takes a special kind of stupid to order 8 NH90's and not select the MTTH variant with the folding blades and uprated undercarriage from the outset when you have just also ordered a multi-role vessel with a hanger for four such aircraft.
Well that describes fairly accurate the govt in power at the time when it came to defence and consider the fact that some of the culprits from that govt have, what some would call significant influence on the current one, leaves one shaking ones head wonder. Given the track record over the last 18 months, I am wondering whether the current NZG has an ambition to out perform the 1999 - 2008 Labour administrations in the stupidity stakes.
No, no. no...awesome aircraft but with RNZAF likely to end up with less than they need we simply do not need to entertain the idea of a small capacity VIP a/c. The B757 is less about VIP & more about service personnel plus the combi capability, AME etc. I'd get pretty shitty if they made personnel deploying sit in a C2 or A400 strategic cattle truck then a flash taxi is approved for top brass & pollies!
The seating in the C-2 / A400M is more comfortable than that in C-130H or Bristol Frightener. Both even have a dunny unlike the C-130H which is literally a can on the ramp.No, no. no...awesome aircraft but with RNZAF likely to end up with less than they need we simply do not need to entertain the idea of a small capacity VIP a/c. The B757 is less about VIP & more about service personnel plus the combi capability, AME etc. I'd get pretty shitty if they made personnel deploying sit in a C2 or A400 strategic cattle truck then a flash taxi is approved for top brass & pollies!
Mate, don't worry, there's no chance of them buying that aircraft. The one thing NZ politicians do understand is popularity and vote winning. If they spent millions of tax payer dollars on an aircraft that can only be used for their VIP travel they would be slaughtered by the media and public. Remember the fuss made over Ron Mark using an NH90 to ferry himself and some visiting top brass around, or when John Key used a chopper to get between two events? That would be nothing compared to the world of hurt that would come down on them in this case.No, no. no...awesome aircraft but with RNZAF likely to end up with less than they need we simply do not need to entertain the idea of a small capacity VIP a/c. The B757 is less about VIP & more about service personnel plus the combi capability, AME etc. I'd get pretty shitty if they made personnel deploying sit in a C2 or A400 strategic cattle truck then a flash taxi is approved for top brass & pollies!
In fact the C-2 has two bogs
- similar to standard commercial airliners as well as gallery equipped with refrigerator and microwave. Like long haul wide bodies the crew have bunk beds. With palletised seating and blue tooth enabled tablets with headphones for in flight entertainment a C-2 is a world away from a C-130H. The C-2 was designed to swallow a 40 foot ISO container so would not have any trouble swallowing one of those US VIP modules
https://www.knightaerospace.com/vip-modules
https://www.knightaerospace.com/modular-systems
https://www.knightaerospace.com/pallets
t68
Well-Known Member
Whilst NH90 can sling a 105, can it sling and carry a pallet or 2 of EO on the same lift, as I have seen photos of Chinook sling loading a gun plus ammo in a single liftThat would be awesome, but, IMO, if there was extra rotary money in the acquisition budget I'd rather get more NH90s. Better to have larger numbers of one type than small numbers of many types (maintenance, spares and training nightmare).
The NH90 is perfectly capable of moving an underslung 105mm...
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
The VIP one should come with a Cargo Parachute delivery system so the Crew can just drop off the Pollies on a deserted Island smoewhere without having to land and leave them thereIn fact the C-2 has two bogs
With palletised seating and blue tooth enabled tablets with headphones for in flight entertainment a C-2 is a world away from a C-130H. The C-2 was designed to swallow a 40 foot ISO container so would not have any trouble swallowing one of those US VIP modules
https://www.knightaerospace.com/vip-modules
https://www.knightaerospace.com/modular-systems
https://www.knightaerospace.com/pallets
Their
Regards S.
The C-2 seats are typically cargo plane agricultural but it was pointed out they are the largest in size compared to other competing alternatives..........Apparently good for long distances.!!!!!!
Regards S.
I think the CH47 is a fabulous aircraft, however it is in my opinion just too big an acquisition for the NZ defence force unless some serious coin is thrown in long term.
Keep the number of types of aircraft to a minimum to help with training and logistics.
The rotary mix is fine, just add a couple more NH-90s to the fleet and ensure what you actually have in service, is funded and enhanced to the maximum of the fleets potential.
Fixed wing I have stated my case, but for the addition of a 5th P8.
Regards S
Keep the number of types of aircraft to a minimum to help with training and logistics.
The rotary mix is fine, just add a couple more NH-90s to the fleet and ensure what you actually have in service, is funded and enhanced to the maximum of the fleets potential.
Fixed wing I have stated my case, but for the addition of a 5th P8.
Regards S
They are also very quiet, the noise in there cargo hold is reportedly similar to a comersial airliner. The RNZAF did have some pallets of airliner type seating in the 60's and 70's for the C130's but they were seldom used (the pollies did not like the noise ) and were ditched after we got the 727's due to Piggy being upstaged by the then Assie PM who offered him a ride in something more comfortable.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Frankly, I don't think the pollies deserve this kind of luxury, if at all possible have them fly economy class, if their really serious about saving the govt money. Although Gerry Brownlee and a few others might need special seating.