Small,correction Australia's refugee intake, it was an extra 12,000 bringing the total to about 25,000
Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
But Trump is not asking NZ to lift its GDP spend to 2%. He is asking the other NATO member countries - we are not in NATO.
There are plenty of other sources of skilled legal migrants out there for NZ to consider than refugees from the Middle East and North Africa. About time the richer nations of that area did some heavy lifting on the humanitarian front and Western Europe likewise on the security front.
All projects have options to give a range of choices, costings, considerations etc and all with pathways for each ie low, med, high. The only project I have ever seen get what they wanted in numbers was the NZLAV and that was more to suit the envisaged role of motorising both battalions, a new direction from previous, but as we have seen the constraints of recruiting, operation and funding made this abit of a stretch and therefore ultimately failed and we have reverted back to what we knew, at cost.
I'm confident defence knows exactly how our government works and purposely aims for the high option knowing full well they will get at least the medium pathway (in a way securing it) everytime. I actually saw it in every day ops (albeit on much smaller scales) when requesting or justifying resources, alittle like bartering TBH, start high settle low, to be expected in a way.
Yes I still see the mooted 3 extra 109s as being the next logical step as a way of appeasing any "deficiancies" in fleet numbers and as you say seems to be no rush now so obviously the demand is not quite there or critical as in comparison 3 civspec A109s added via outright purchase/lease would be a relatively simple, straightforward and cost effective option at this stage vs more NH90s. The considerations such as extra funding, crewing, maintaining etc would still be there just not as extreme as new build 90s IMO.
NZDF have placed flight restrictions on the NH90 fleet until the cause of the recent in flight engine failure is determined.
I do not think there is a rush to buy more NH-90s at this stage for a number of reasons but with a possible refresh (possible because it has not been definitively announced post the Defence Mid-point Rebalancing Review) of the Mako circa 2018/19 they should also be looking at more A109's. These could be turnkey leased airframes using the Hawker Pacific B200 model as a reference. Raytheon Australia is contracted by the RAN to supply three LUH's for flight and crew training on the flightline providing iirc 1500 hours p.a for a cost of $24m over 4 years. So yes it is an additional cost to the bottom line but it would free up those 1500 hours for the other five Mako's for LUH duties for the NZDF/MAOT, which would alleviate some of the tasking hours on the NH90.
P8a...
Hmmm, interesting...! This of course does NOT mean a sale has been made... AIUI it is just permission to sell if NZ decides to do so.
New Zealand – P-8A Aircraft and Associated Support | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
Whilst it is 'up to 4' meaning there could be less I suspect 4 is the number. I think we've already thrashed out that 4 isn't ideal but clearly that's all the RNZAF will get if they do get the P8, which in the longer term would see a P8 doing the longer-distance stuff & as we know a smaller a/c for shorter distance SAR etc.
p.s. Once this gets out into wider circulation wait for the Labour/Greens to promise to knock it on the head!
Hmmm, interesting...! This of course does NOT mean a sale has been made... AIUI it is just permission to sell if NZ decides to do so.
New Zealand – P-8A Aircraft and Associated Support | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency
Whilst it is 'up to 4' meaning there could be less I suspect 4 is the number. I think we've already thrashed out that 4 isn't ideal but clearly that's all the RNZAF will get if they do get the P8, which in the longer term would see a P8 doing the longer-distance stuff & as we know a smaller a/c for shorter distance SAR etc.
p.s. Once this gets out into wider circulation wait for the Labour/Greens to promise to knock it on the head!
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J_Can
Member
This sounds like great news for the RNZAF and would potential add some amazing capabilities to the NZDF as a whole.
In the link it states that the usual buy of associated sensors and recievers will be bought in the potential sale, but what about weapons? I do know that the NZDF has ongoing light torepdo procurement plan, but would there be any consideration on the NZDF/RNZAF part to buy additional weapons like the SLAM-ER and such?
We won't know weapon requirements until well down the track of a sale being confirmed and as stated this is NOT confirmation of an order or sale.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
Very interesting. Not my first choice if it comes to pass.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Good news, and yes of course this does not guarantee an order is forthcoming or the final numbers to possibly be procured, but still a good indication of the NZ Governments possible intentions.
If anything the DSCA notification is possibly also a recognition that the P-8A production line won't be open forever (which appears to certainly be on or ahead of schedule, don't want to miss out, eg, missed the boat with C-17A!).
If, and I say if, the procurement does proceed, having 19 'Anzac' P-8A's + whatever number of USN P-8A's are operating/based in our region + RAAF and USN Triton too, it's a pretty good capability to have in our part of the world, and all being able to 'talk' to each other and share the relevant information seamlessly will also be a huge advantage in future operations too.
Time will tell, just have to wait and see!
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Not first choice? What and why?
Agree that less than 4 would be a disaster for the RNZAF, but it does set the upper limit. I think that this means that they are probably down to the final 2 or 3 and they would be checking on availability of the final contenders, which would mean that unsurprisingly the P8A is one of them.
4 isn't necessarily the upper limit, just the limit under this business case...
RAAF is buying 8 + 4 + 3 in various tranches.
This is it basically. There are no other realistic contenders and to be frank there never was. Other than the P-8 everything else investigated was either at the same capability level of the P-3K2 or considerably less.
Four P-8A's will provide an increase in utilisation over the six P-3K2's. Growth in capability baselines will come from an unmanned enabler.
I agree ... there really aren't any other serious contenders. The NZ white paper made it pretty clear that the P-3K2 replacement would need substantial underwater intelligence, reconnaissance and surveillance capabilities, and would need to be able to contribute to international coalition requirements.
I expect that an official order will be placed sooner rather than later.
t68
Well-Known Member
Wonder if the got a price and avalibilty on the Japanese offering?
The other point that comes out of this announcement is the cost which at $US !,46 B will be over $NZ 2.0 B. or $NZ 500 m per aircraft. this shows what some of the up coming programs are likely to cost. While this would be one of the more expensive, per unit, I think we need to be more cautious in regards to our expectations as to what the $NZ 20 B will allow us to acquire.
Except RAAF ordered all those tranches well before the order book closes - if RNZAF order the P8 they'll be one of the last able to do so before they close that order book (slated for late this year AIUI).
NZ therefore won't have the option for further tranches unless a second tranche is ordered only a matter of months later... and that it extremely unlikely.
None of this stuff is at bargain basement prices but getting the right capability is the priority. The $18.3B to be spent on platforms (the other $1.7B is on support infrastructure) will get us what we need but no more.