Abraham Gubler dug this out several years ago, a very interesting read.
View digital copy
I'll post it in the RAN thread as well as that's where it belongs.
Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
View digital copy
I'll post it in the RAN thread as well as that's where it belongs.
SpazSinbad
Active Member
Thanks for the link - I'll check it out.
Very interesting read, wonder what would have happend if......?
Thanks for putting the link up again Volk.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
Happy New Year to all.
This thread has been quiet of late, so here's a question. Some of you may have seen a suggestion from the Aussie thread that France has approached Australia to work on a Special Forces version of the NH90.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ce-eye-collaboration-on-special-force-421028/
One of the desired changes is apparently a trapdoor in the floor for fast roping. I've previously heard that fast-roping from the NH90 was considered difficult. But NZDF released video from Southern Katipo 2015 showing troops exiting both sides of a hovering NH90 without apparent difficulty (3 min 30 into this video).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmxduj0qu7Q
Any idea if NZ has fitted different door winches that support fast-roping, or why it doesn't appear to be a problem here?
In more general NH90 news, the French Army have ordered another half-dozen of the troop transport variant, largely because their foces in North Africa are heavily stretched in various counter-insurgency operations. I think this is a very positive sign, as it comes on the back of serious front-line use. While it is a French-built product, they could equally have chosen alternatives like the Airbus Caracal they also have in service.
News - NHIndustries
This thread has been quiet of late, so here's a question. Some of you may have seen a suggestion from the Aussie thread that France has approached Australia to work on a Special Forces version of the NH90.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ce-eye-collaboration-on-special-force-421028/
One of the desired changes is apparently a trapdoor in the floor for fast roping. I've previously heard that fast-roping from the NH90 was considered difficult. But NZDF released video from Southern Katipo 2015 showing troops exiting both sides of a hovering NH90 without apparent difficulty (3 min 30 into this video).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmxduj0qu7Q
Any idea if NZ has fitted different door winches that support fast-roping, or why it doesn't appear to be a problem here?
In more general NH90 news, the French Army have ordered another half-dozen of the troop transport variant, largely because their foces in North Africa are heavily stretched in various counter-insurgency operations. I think this is a very positive sign, as it comes on the back of serious front-line use. While it is a French-built product, they could equally have chosen alternatives like the Airbus Caracal they also have in service.
News - NHIndustries
The do have different rescue hoists to the Australian ones I think - or are these different from winches 
Details on the hoists on both the A109 and NH-90 are in this PDF here: http://nzsar.org.nz/Portals/4/Resou...er 2009/hoist 09 rnzaf helicopter project.pdf
That document also has an interesting map of how long they expect to take to fly a NH-90 out to various pacific islands in a SAR scenario
Details on the hoists on both the A109 and NH-90 are in this PDF here: http://nzsar.org.nz/Portals/4/Resou...er 2009/hoist 09 rnzaf helicopter project.pdf
That document also has an interesting map of how long they expect to take to fly a NH-90 out to various pacific islands in a SAR scenario
The winches are different with the ones in the RNZAF NH90s being specified in the acquisition contract. The winches in the ADF MRH are the standard winch fitted to all NH90s.The do have different rescue hoists to the Australian ones I think - or are these different from winches
Details on the hoists on both the A109 and NH-90 are in this PDF here: http://nzsar.org.nz/Portals/4/Resou...er 2009/hoist 09 rnzaf helicopter project.pdf
That document also has an interesting map of how long they expect to take to fly a NH-90 out to various pacific islands in a SAR scenario
t68
Well-Known Member
Which is the better of the two? Different SWL?
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
An interesting document - thanks for posting. Interesting that the NH90 winch photos appear to be taken from a Swedish helicopter - see the three crowns insignia.The do have different rescue hoists to the Australian ones I think - or are these different from winches
Details on the hoists on both the A109 and NH-90 are in this PDF here: http://nzsar.org.nz/Portals/4/Resou...er 2009/hoist 09 rnzaf helicopter project.pdf
That document also has an interesting map of how long they expect to take to fly a NH-90 out to various pacific islands in a SAR scenario
The intent to self-deploy the NH90 into the Pacific was still evident - not something that we have heard mentioned in a very long time. The document is titled
"hoist 09 rnzaf helicopter project.pdf"
which probably indicates it's vintage.
Zero Alpha
New Member
The presentation was developed for a briefing to the 2009 NZSAR Hoist Operators workshop hosted at Ohakea. At that point the concept of operations for the SAR role was still in the very early stages of development.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
Thanks ZA, interesting to know.
If anyone is interested, the latest APDR is out and has an interview with RNZAF's head of flight training. No other Kiwi content.
Australian Defence News | Asia Pacific Defence Reporter
The only other item of interest to me was a full-page advertisement by Sukhoi for the PAK-FA. I'm struggling to understand the reasoning behind that strategy - presumably they are targeting potential Asian customers who may read an Aussie defence journal, rather than the Aust. government!
Well you just never know. The govt for the Peoples Democratic Republic of Christchurch might read the magazine
kiwi in exile
Active Member
they often have several advertorials for Russian product.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
What intrests me is the article of australian $300 million purchase of reaper drones from America . And thier use for light attack,or even Triton for MPA could this be a possible solution for New Zealand, also perhaps to replace the skyhawks?
t68
Well-Known Member
I can't see the NZG going down the armed UAV route anytime soon although it would be a good capabilty enhancement for the JATF.Rather you get AH1Z Vipers in the role off a small LHD in the long term.
Even here in Australia people are worried about the legalities of armed UAV. I don't see much of a diffrence between someone on the ground calling the shots to someone in the air to someone standing besides them asking to do the same thing, but it's all about perceptions I guess.
Australia Needs to Be Transparent on Drones | The Diplomat
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
Was thinking Uav as a force multiplier for both MPA and strike aircraft. A much cheaper solution for NZDF, a battle tested product, and you dont need to crew them, not sure if they could operate the larger ones off Canterbury though.
FoxtrotRomeo999
Active Member
Kiwipatriot,
Strategically, I would like to see a shared defence framework for the South Pacific. Australia is delivering top end solutions, Triton and P8 for MPA and netcentric RAN/RAAF for strike/defence. If NZ developed low to medium cost UAV solutions that fit in with the higher end systems, it could also apply to Fiji, PNG, etc, this would be a great outcome and might help manage foreign interloping in our backyard.
Have a great day, FR
Strategically, I would like to see a shared defence framework for the South Pacific. Australia is delivering top end solutions, Triton and P8 for MPA and netcentric RAN/RAAF for strike/defence. If NZ developed low to medium cost UAV solutions that fit in with the higher end systems, it could also apply to Fiji, PNG, etc, this would be a great outcome and might help manage foreign interloping in our backyard.
Have a great day, FR
That may have worked prior to the late 1990s, however since the swings of NZ politics and low investment in defence, means NZ no longer has the level of trust from Canberra that it used to have.