I can't seem to find how to edit my own post so I'll post a reply instead. I hope I am allowed?!?!?! Yeah I am a little irked that I am apparently not allowed to juxtapose experiences that different defense procurement organizations seemingly have with suppliers from a certain country.
Yet the Damen reference had nothing to do with whatever they built for Australia but to illustrate how the Dutch navy and Defense Materiel Organization take an active role in in the design and development. This cooperation which is called the "gouden driehoek" in the Netherlands is often credited as the reason why the Dutch navy can acquire some pretty high quality warships for very competitive prices. And also why they experience very little "hiccups" with ships they acquired from within this "gouden driehoek".
I don't know how the Hunter class frigates have anything to do with what I said about Naval and the Attack class submarine program, nor have I said anything about BAE. Others may have mentioned them but it's unfair to put that on me!
Anyway. The reason for this post some links:
Defence Department decides 'Attack' is the best name for new subs
Future submarine project deadlocked as French shipbuilder digs in on $50 billion contract
Report warns submarine program 'dangerously off track', urges nuclear option
Some links from the state broadcaster. Would they report on things if nothing was going on? If everything was hunky dory would ABC have enough sources to establish a news story and confirm it? To me this is an indication that there's smoke, and where there's smoke...
https://venturaapdr.partica.online/...the-attack-class-costing-337-billion-too-much
Australia's future submarines: Do we need a Plan B? | APDR
Some articles from APDR. One of the remarkable things I get from these articles is how the Australian government seems to have to go through the French government to negotiate or even communicate with NAVAL about the program. Another thing I find remarkable is that there seemingly already are cost overruns before the sub has been laid down. Some of what is mentioned in these articles look like worrying indicators about the relationship between Naval and their client.
Submarines for Australia
These citizens have created an action group out of fears for the poor track record of Australian defense procurement. It seems they have some serious concerns about the submarine program.
However, my intention with this was to illustrate and juxtapose the relationship between defense procurement organizations and their suppliers. And the importance of the nature of these suppliers. The Dutch DMO is not the greatest organization and the reality in Dutch defense procurement is often disappointing. But when the navy and DMO work with their usual partners they seem to get pretty decent results for a very competitive price.
The problem I wanted to illustrate in the discussion above was why I have a mistrust of the French defense industry and Naval in particular, the main reason being that they just have a bad reputation. And how this is worrying (in the context of this thread) because the Belgian government just awarded a major Belgo-Dutch naval procurement program to the French competitor. Why I don't like the French and how they operate within the defense industry is because a lot of people in the Dutch defense sphere have had bad experiences with the French.
And this is discussed here at
defensieforum.nl , I don't think I can link to specific threads. But the thread about the cougar helicopters has lots of complaints about the acquisition, training, operation and quality of both the product and the customer service offered by the French defense industry and government in regards to these helicopters. And the threads "vervanging Alkmaarklasse" and "vervanging Walrusklasse" illustrate the frustration with the mine sweeper replacement program and the fear of the Naval offering being chosen in the tender. The similarities in what the Dutch and Australian navies are looking for in their next submarines (displacement, range, capabilities, etc.). Makes a comparison between the two programs a common thing, and the fact that the "winner" of the Australian program Naval Group is still competing for the Dutch tender with a similar product. Makes the Attack class and how the program progresses, interesting in a Dutch context.
I hope I have illustrated how Naval and the French defense industry are relevant in many ways in the context of a discussion about the Dutch navy. But here are some articles that are more on topic in this regard. They are Dutch language though, but this is my favorite source on the Dutch navy and Dutch is my language. (oh I just found a translate thing at the top of the articles. LUCKY!)
Kritische reacties in Nederland op keuze voor Franse bouwer mijnenjagers
An article about the critical reaction on the selection of Naval Group for the mine hunter replacement program. Some of the things discussed there are the apparent pressure the French government exerted on their Belgian counterpart. And how Naval seems to have given a 100 or 200 million Euro discount to the Belgians. Not to the Dutch customer mind you, because we weren't making the decision this time. In that vein there are also complaints about the international procurement agreement between the Netherlands and Belgium that led to these ships and hopefully the replacement of the M-class frigates in the next decade. The main thing I take away from this is that the Belgians sold us out to the French for a measly discount that, seeing their reputation and track record, Naval will more than make up for in cost overruns.
Mijnenbestrijding: Nederlandse industrie voor 30 jaar uitgeschakeld
Here's a very good article on this program and some of the rumors surrounding it. And an interesting discussion of how European tenders work and false competitions in an environment of state owned companies.
Overzicht artikelen nieuwe mijnenbestrijdingsvaartuigen
........
The Malaysian Scorpene Submarine Affair – Compendium of Arms Trade Corruption
More corruption in Malaysia
French Manufacturer Building Indian Submarines Suffers Major Data Leak
French Rafale jets deal sparks political storm in India
And some incidents from India