Royal Canadian Navy Discussions and updates

John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
@t68, yes those Boeing advertisements are quite common at the moment. IMHO, Boeing's attempt to hype its tarnished image is a waste of money, it won't do much for them. Many Canadians could have cared less about Bombardier until Boeing turned Bombardier into an abused puppy with the 300% tariff on the C-Series. Even putting aside the 18 SH interim purchase, Boeing has certainly given a future air refuelling tanker sale to Airbus and the P-8 potential is now minimal as well.
 
John Newman

John Newman

The Bunker Group
John Fedup said:
Me too.

No, steel has not been cut yet. Worse, the 2.6 billion is now apparently not enough. This is confirmation, to me anyway, that this type of ship should be built offshore like the U.K. did. It is also confirmation that the BC lower mainland cost of living is a huge issue for SeaSpan as Nova also pointed out.

Indeed, and just further confirmation that these vessels are best built outside of Canada.

It will likely be 3-4 years after the RAN receives its first ship that the RCN gets one (if ever).:(
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John, yes actually I do remember reading a while ago that the budget allocation of C$2.6b for the two new build AORs is likely to go up again (maybe towards or past C$3b??), again that just staggers me!!

And I still can't believe that steel hasn't started to be cut yet.

I reckon it would almost be cheaper for the Canadian Government to cancel the contract, pay a cancellation fee, pay the workers a couple of years pay, ring our Spanish friends and add two more Cantabria class AOR's to the end of the RAN's production run (which of course again is A$650m for 'two' ships) and still have 'change' left over, and of course probably still have them delivered early too!

Oh dear, I just shake my head!
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Complete with a partially Canadian radar, already fully integrated with US missiles that I think Canada wants . . . Could be a good selling point.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Yes, it seems to have what the RCN needs. Not sure what the thinkng is on radar. Although Canada helped develop the Thales APAR it wasn't selected for the Halifax class. This time around, I think it stands a better chance. I assume the hanger may have have to be modified as the CH-148 is larger than a NH-90.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
APAR was too late for the Halifax class. First ship commissioned with it was 6 years after the last Halifax.

It could have been fitted in refit, but that would have meant some reconstruction.
 
C

cyberevoblog

New Member
The Canadian Surface Ship also known as the Canadian Surface Combatant will see two contracts, with one for a Warship Design (WD) contractor and second for the Combat System Integrator (CSI).

The warship's design will have at minimum the following features:

A length of 90 metres
Surface to air missiles,
Surface to surface missiles,
A naval gun larger than 56mm.

Furthermore, the warship will have a hull mounted sonar or towed sonar array; torpedoes be capable of supporting at least 1 maritime helicopter; [ 2 Helicopters is the preferred option.]

The potential WD must be a prime or sub-contractor for a NATO Government, with a successful and proven major warship design and construction history.

The CSI bidder (I believe Lockheed Martin Canada will be chosen) must have designed, integrated and delivered the command and control software, networked processing, display surface warfare, anti-submarine warfare, long-range, surveillance and fire-control radar suites for a surface combatant of at least 90 meters.

Likely Warship Design:

The Danish Iver Huitfeldt appears to be the most likely candidate. It has an APAR, SMART-L radar and CEROS-200 fire control systems. Fires the ESSM and SM-11A AAW missile's, and Harpoon ASCM's.

The Iver Huitfeldt Class frigates have all been shock tested in accordance with NATO STANAG 4137 yet while the hull design combines both a wide beam for stability, and excellent sea keeping performance concerns regarding survivability remain, due to commercial versus military construction practices.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
The government's announcement about the progress of the National Ship Building Program....big yawn! Just a discussion about retaining ship building skills as work falls off, the exact purpose of the program! The work flow is a cluster because junior's fools can't procure jack$hit. The proper solution is for Irving to build another Arctic patrol vessel for the RCN, not as the dip$hit pollie suggested, finding a foreign buyer. These vessels are overpriced and no other nation has a need for a 6500 ton ice capable under-armed patrol vessel. As for the AOR build and SeaSpan, nothing of note mentioned. The only positive, no spreading out of naval builds to a third yard (Quebec's Davie yard).

Federal government tries to head off potential layoffs at Irving shipyard | National Post
 
K

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
John Fedup said:
These vessels are overpriced and no other nation has a need for a 6500 ton ice capable under-armed patrol vessel.
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Technically France just bought one in that size category, a bit smaller and slightly more focused on something more useful, i.e. logistics. Ordered in 2015 and delivered two months ago L'Astrolabe will start supply runs to Dumont d'Urville on Antarctica next year.

They only spent about 10% of what the Canadians did per ship though, with the winning bidder subcontracting the design to a Finnish company and the construction of the hull to a Polish shipyard.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
As I have said numerous times on this thread, pointy end naval warships built in Canada makes sense, AORs absolutely not, and the AOPS, questionable. My biggest beef with the AOPS is lack of armament ( pathetic 25 mm on a 6500 ton 3/4 of a billion dollar naval ship) and the Canadianization cost for a ship that cost Norway about 200 million. Inflation is a factor but it shouldn't be almost 500 million for a patrol ship!
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Another news story about Irving's desire for foreign AOPS sale. Again, I am at a loss as to what country needs this ship as most nations which have a need already have something similar. The asking price seems unrealistic to any potential foreign buyer. If the Canadian government and Irving want to retain skilled workers for a smooth transition to the CSC then negotiate a sixth AOPS build for the RCN. Hopefully the CSC decision will be made before it becomes necessary to add a seventh AOPS!

Irving wants to sell Arctic patrol ships to other customers but are the vessels too expensive? | Ottawa Citizen
 
J_Can

J_Can

Member
John Fedup said:
Another news story about Irving's desire for foreign AOPS sale. Again, I am at a loss as to what country needs this ship as most nations which have a need already have something similar. The asking price seems unrealistic to any potential foreign buyer. If the Canadian government and Irving want to retain skilled workers for a smooth transition to the CSC then negotiate a sixth AOPS build for the RCN. Hopefully the CSC decision will be made before it becomes necessary to add a seventh AOPS!

Irving wants to sell Arctic patrol ships to other customers but are the vessels too expensive? | Ottawa Citizen
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I thought it was already understood they where going to purchase the sixth vessels in the class? I wonder which countries could possible want this vessel of monster we created. The speed of a minesweeper, the hull of an icebreaker, the sensor/ EW/ decoy outfit of a minor surface combatant, yet with armament of a minor coast guard vessels.

Maybe Iceland I am guessing? They tend arm their coast guard ships lightly while having a modest sensor outfit. They would also like the ability to transport supplies and break through light ice perhaps? Maybe Finland but with the ship being up-gunned? From what I understand the ice there is not that bad; and their coast guard which seconded from their navy is in need of a new command ship. Then begs the question though why either one of this countries by something so overpriced and time-delayed in Canada when they could just go to Norway?
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
At the present time, the sixth ship has not been ordered and clearly the government doesn't want to fund it. However, they may have to keep Irving's workforce intact. I agree that any country looking for an ice capable patrol ship would opt for a Norwegian build over Canadian.
 
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