The Australian has a special report on Pacific 2019 that is available to non-subscribers.
Pacific 2019 Special Report
Pacific 2019 Special Report
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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Got to say Sammut was noted for his presentations. He tends to cut a more direct and less buzz word driven communication. He will always be famous for his explanation to Pauline Hanson for what a Pumpjet is not. I think Sammut is happy where he is and the project he has. Going up to Navy chief I think has always been a bit about those who enjoy the hobknobing and doing those sort of things.
Hi all.
I've just read the Type 31 gun choice, which lead me to wonder what the rationale for a 5 inch gun was for the RAN, since as far as I can google, it doesn't do artillary support.
So for example, if the Oto Melara 76mm gun single/dual superfiring position (like the Iver huitfedt) /dual side by side (like the Horizon Class) was used instead, they'd have a wide range of shells, with a range up to 40 km (manufacturer claims), and with Strales- anti aircraft/missile capability. It's frustraing that little data is available on the effectiveness of any of these systems.
I know the 5 inch gun is locked in, but I wonder if it's just to have commonality with the US, logisitics or if there's another reason, rather than other options
I've just read the Type 31 gun choice, which lead me to wonder what the rationale for a 5 inch gun was for the RAN, since as far as I can google, it doesn't do artillary support.
So for example, if the Oto Melara 76mm gun single/dual superfiring position (like the Iver huitfedt) /dual side by side (like the Horizon Class) was used instead, they'd have a wide range of shells, with a range up to 40 km (manufacturer claims), and with Strales- anti aircraft/missile capability. It's frustraing that little data is available on the effectiveness of any of these systems.
I know the 5 inch gun is locked in, but I wonder if it's just to have commonality with the US, logisitics or if there's another reason, rather than other options
Read up on the Battle of Al Fawr, where apparently HMAS Anzac was prevented from providing NGS by her 5" gun. It would have been the first time since Vietnam if she had the ability...
oldsig
Xaviers third report on Pacific 2019. This one focuses on the Attack submarine project. It's a short report.
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
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Remember reading somewhere at the time that the MK 45 127mm ran rings around the RN ships armed with the MK 8 114mmRead up on the Battle of Al Fawr, where apparently HMAS Anzac was prevented from providing NGS by her 5" gun. It would have been the first time since Vietnam if she had the ability...
oldsig
With the rapid development of HVPs the 5" gun will supplement or even replace missiles in some roles. While this tech may find its way to the 76mm, the current developments are aimed at the large number of 5" guns currently in service.
Takao
The Bunker Group
I might be misunderstanding you, but HMAS Anzac did provide NGFS...Read up on the Battle of Al Fawr, where apparently HMAS Anzac was prevented from providing NGS by her 5" gun. It would have been the first time since Vietnam if she had the ability...
oldsig
https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/a-big-48-hours-for-the-navy-20030325-gdghlf.html
21 March 2003. HMAS Anzac fire-support mission – The Australian Naval Institute
Edit - never mind, I missed @oldsig127 's humour! Sorry mate
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You are. Hence the winkey thing underneath my post and the very deliberate reference to an easily searchable example. The notion that we might be cutting ourselves off from providing NGS by using a gun that has been being used for that for decades struck me as quite silly enough to merit a little facetious post. My apologies.
oldsig
Xaviers final report from Pacific 2019.
In the report Navantia Australia have released a concept design for a JSS. Details are:
Also, there is an item on concept cabin design for the attack subs and another on the MTU diesels for the subs.
In the report Navantia Australia have released a concept design for a JSS. Details are:
- 300 embarked forces
- 160 crew - hopefully less
- 3,600 tonnes fuel capability
- 500 tonnes vehicle cargo capacity
- 176 m overall length
- 25 m beam
- 20 kt speed approx
- 6,000 nm range approx
Also, there is an item on concept cabin design for the attack subs and another on the MTU diesels for the subs.
t68
Well-Known Member
Is this for the Pacfic support ship that was announced sometime ago?
Redlands18
Well-Known Member
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Agree, does appear to be an attempt by Navantia to have a foot in both camps when it comes to a decision on either the 3rd AOR or 2nd LPD.
Actually they can offer three different designs, a pure AOR such as another Supply class ship, or a pure LPD based on their Enforcer design ships, and a hybrid as above.
There certainly was something about interaction of waveforms between the hulls, but I can’t for the life of me remember what it was. Where’s Richard Lamacraft when you need him?
No official link to the Pacific ship. Too big to be built in Australia at currently facilities (!). Not sure if this is what they had in mind for the Pacific ship.
But it would seem that it was known to be in development and in development for a need. Merging the AOR/Amphib has been tried before. However, I quite like this combo. I think instead of a 3rd AOR something like this might get a look in. It can do the AOR role, but with additional capabilities. I guess the crew for this comes from Choules?
But it would seem that it was known to be in development and in development for a need. Merging the AOR/Amphib has been tried before. However, I quite like this combo. I think instead of a 3rd AOR something like this might get a look in. It can do the AOR role, but with additional capabilities. I guess the crew for this comes from Choules?
My thinking is that it might be aimed at being a Choules replacement. It would fit the bill in most aspects, plus add AO capabilities that wouldn't go astray. I see the JSS capability as something that would greatly enhance the RAN amphib capabilities, more so than Choules has.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Poor old Choules, she seems to be in line for a kicking from time to time, she seems to be treated like the poor step sister at times too.
Looking at the Navantia JSS proposal firstly, one thing that is said in the Naval News video from Pacific 2019, is that the JSS will have 70% of the load capacity of Choules and 70% of the fuel capacity of Success, in other words the JSS is a compromise ship, neither fish nor fowl, listen to the video at the approx. 1.35min mark:
The JSS is a long way from being an enhancement of the RAN amphibious capability, it is actually a backward step from what Choules currently delivers, 30% less. Yes she was a purchase of opportunity, but at $100m, I think she was a bargain, and especially when you look at the ship she replaced, eg, Tobruk, she is a massive leap in capability (equally when you look at the two LHDs vs the two LPAs, all three ships are a massive leap in amphibious capability across the board).
The reported dimensions of the JSS appears to be pretty much the same as Choules, which is pretty much the same as the Netherlands Johan de Witt, all three ships are approx. 176m in length.
https://products.damen.com/-/media/...Landing_Platform_Dock_HNLMS_Johan_de_Witt.pdf
Personally I'd rather see Choules be replaced by a Johan de Witt over the JSS any day of the week, if Government does decide to add that second LPD, then two copies wouldn't go astray either.
If Government decides on a 3rd AOR and just replace Choules one for one (no second LPD), then I'd rather see the 3rd AOR be another Supply AOR and the Choules replacement a single Johan de Witt.
Anyway, just my opinion of course.
Cheers,
The JSS seems a very interesting concept.
I'm one that does like the Swiss army knife approach for a Navy of our size.
Jack of all trades and master of none etc.
Just wondering how such a hull for works carrying both a significant amount of fuel storage and at the same time having a well dock and the need to ballast.
Seems like a lot of variables to play with.
Talking of HMAS Choules, I noticed she was berthed with the Spirit of Tasmania in the Port of Melbourne today.
We don't see much of the fleet here, so it's a;way a treat when a naval ship passes through.
Regards S
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Optimizing the RCN ‘s initial JSS design required years and finally became so expensive the government cancelled it and restarted the process. The RCN then ended up with a minimally modified Berlin AOR. Granted this was mostly due to our appalling procurement process but I think doing a Swiss knife approach to an existing design will mission creep it to death unless there are stringent limitations imposed.
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