Royal Australian Naval Force Enhancements

A

Aussie Digger

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Re: Royal Australian Navy force enhancements

rickusn said:
ESSM isnt ready yet.

Could be it never will live up to the hype.

All A. Burke class ships that werent fitted with Phalanx are being retrofitted with it.

And all new construction ships are having it installed as built.

RAM/Sea Ram doesnt seem to be a consenus answer either.
ESSM has been operational in the RAN for over 12 months and has been fired numerous times by the RAN. It certainly seems ready in RAN service at least.

Bolide is an RBS-70 Missile, Gf, I haven't heard it mentioned for the RAN. Mistral/TETRAL has been as the touted VSRAD capability solution for the ANZAC's...

I've also seen RAM Launchers in-service on USN vessels, USS Boxer which visited Australia not 3 months ago had 3 (I think) of them fitted...
 

aaaditya

New Member
Re: Royal Australian Navy force enhancements

Aussie Digger said:
ESSM has been operational in the RAN for over 12 months and has been fired numerous times by the RAN. It certainly seems ready in RAN service at least.

Bolide is an RBS-70 Missile, Gf, I haven't heard it mentioned for the RAN. Mistral/TETRAL has been as the touted VSRAD capability solution for the ANZAC's...

I've also seen RAM Launchers in-service on USN vessels, USS Boxer which visited Australia not 3 months ago had 3 (I think) of them fitted...
what is the range of the essm ?(in globalsecurity.org it varies from 15-40kms max range),can it be mated with the aegis systems?,can you provide some link(other than global security.org) for the essm?:coffee
 

machina

New Member
Re: Royal Australian Navy force enhancements

It's interesting how in those picture cherry posted that the CEA masts attached to the Arunta are fairly different to what the finished product will look like, according to the concept pictures. I wonder whether the trial system adds as much weight as what they are planning to add when it is finished, and if not, whether it's going to be accurately tested.
 

Aardvark Fury

New Member
Re: Royal Australian Navy force enhancements

I must say I'm very pleased to see the Aus government has made the bold but ultimately sensible decision to mount the CEA PARs to the ANZAC class. It's not too often you see the Aus gov purchasing what is effectively an untried solution (and home grown at that). Nonetheless, it looks like it will provide a very impressive boost in capability. This is a great example of how Aus defence purchases can support local Aus industry. As this is new technology, and currently a niche market (but with huge potential) this decision stands to put CEA and Aus in a strong position in the global marketplace. It is much more likely foreign navies will take a close look at the CEA PARs with the Aus navy using them operationally. I've often thought the Aus defence industry needs to be less insular and seek more export opportunities. I'd like to see more decisions like this from DoD. Now, what about selling a few of those Bushmasters?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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Verified Defense Pro
Re: Royal Australian Navy force enhancements

Aardvark Fury said:
I've often thought the Aus defence industry needs to be less insular and seek more export opportunities. I'd like to see more decisions like this from DoD.
Actually a lot of the problem has been a deliberate stance to not be seen as military weapons systems "benefiters" Otherwise we could have made a small sum of money from Wedgetail (as an example) as Aust ran lead on a lot of the esoteric development.

Aardvark Fury said:
Now, what about selling a few of those Bushmasters?
Thats a bit of a cluster. the problems being to date:

1) Platform was only kept alive due to last election when Bendigo was considered a fragile seat. The Govt was selectively committed to it.
2) ADI has a French shareholder. That has effected entry into the US market (who have been keen up unto a point. They are and have been looking at the Bushies in Iraq)
3) ADI gave China (amongst significant internal concern and protest) copies of the specs to build the platform under license. That immediately resulted in a dramatic decline in interest from the US. Apart from being a gross demonstration of commercial stupidity (as we've already seen the Chinese Govt do variations of the Hecate .50 cal sniper weapon, the Tasmanian fast patrol cat (which emerged as a 2208 missile patrol vessel) and some strong indications that they've cloned Su-27's ) compliments of Clintons equally moronic policy of getting State Dept to release the Cincinatti's to their aviation industry) - then the mind boggles at the absolute naivete of them.


I worked on the project where we sold modified S600's to Kuwait. So we have a good record in the ME - a clear customer base would be the ME if they chose to approach the more conservative and already pro-aust elements there. (Gulf States). On that basis, Bushmasters would be a good fit as a lot of the drivetrain already exists in some of those countries existing armoured fleets. It would cut their logisitics considerably and thus make a sale easier and more palatable.

I've spent over 25 years on various projects ranging from subs, ASW, minhunters, AP3C upgrades, Steyrs, Perenti's Ravens - not once have I seen any commercial nouse demonstrated - and the bulk of that has been idealogical - from both sides of the "house".

As a country we don't like being "seen" as weapons developers, which is absolutely ridiculous when you consider how much of our gear is used by other countries but buried from the public. We've run SCRAMJETS at 1/50th the cost that the US has poured into their prog, the US and 2 other navies use our acoustic warfare systems, we have ballistic detection systems used by the USDoD. Secret Service etc... we're regarded as the world leaders in electronic impulse kinetic weapons.

Idiots!

/rant off
 

Aardvark Fury

New Member
Re: Royal Australian Navy force enhancements

gf0012-aust said:
3) ADI gave China (amongst significant internal concern and protest) copies of the specs to build the platform under license. That immediately resulted in a dramatic decline in interest from the US. Apart from being a gross demonstration of commercial stupidity (as we've already seen the Chinese Govt do variations of the Hecate .50 cal sniper weapon, the Tasmanian fast patrol cat (which emerged as a 2208 missile patrol vessel) and some strong indications that they've cloned Su-27's ) compliments of Clintons equally moronic policy of getting State Dept to release the Cincinatti's to their aviation industry) - then the mind boggles at the absolute naivete of them.
OK, I cannot believe ADI gave the Chinese a license to produce the Bushmaster, a country that has a long history of pirating IP. Not to mention the fact that this is guaranteed to annoy the US. This looked like the most promising export market thus far. On a personal level I also have a real problem with the Australian government's pandering to China (though I can understand the attractiveness of access to its economy). This is a Communist dictatorship with a terrible record on human rights (they could even be used to put down protests at some point - wouldn't that look great?), constantly threatens Taiwan with military action (which if it eventuated would lead to a true strategic dilemma for Aus vis-a-vis ANZUS), and whose burgeoning military could eventually even conceivably directly threaten Australia... I think we should be demanding real movement on democracy, human rights and a more transparent strategic stance before we do stupid things like this! I had no idea ADI had done this and I am genuinely, genuinely disappointed.

Sorry for my rant too, I know it's off topic.
 

SATAN

New Member
Re: Royal Australian Navy force enhancements

Australia's submarine rescue unit suffers "high risks": report

SYDNEY (AFP) Oct 01, 2005
The Australian navy unit designed to rescue stricken submarines poses a significant number of "intolerable or unacceptable risks" to sailors, according to a report published Saturday.
The internal defence report, obtained by The Weekend Australian under freedom of information legislation, found the navy's submarine rescue unit was using faulty and obsolete equipment and that some staff training was poor.

A Review of Submarine Escape and Rescue Services, written in February, found that the submarine rescue system was burdened by "a significant number of high risks," the paper said.

These included "failure of critical equipment during testing and operation, competence of submarine rescue personnel and the integration of emergency procedures."

The report describes some rescue equipment as "obsolete" and warns of "critical system equipment failures" and a lack of spare parts.

The report also questions Australia's capacity to reach a submarine stranded deep below the ocean surface because of a lack of available sea and air transport.

"Although there is a requirement for the (rescue) equipment to be air transportable, cargo aircraft is not a feasible transport option... there are few suitable aircraft in Australia," it says.

The navy uses a 16.5 tonne remote-operated vehicle which attaches to a sunken sub and brings six sailors at a time to the surface to rescue submarines in difficulty.

The vehicle can dive to more than 500 metres (1,650 feet) and is based near submarine fleet headquarters south of the western city of Perth.

The navy's Director-General of Submarines, Commodore Boyd Robinson, told the newspaper that "all issues identified in the report are being managed actively by defence."

"It is not possible to resolve all issues immediately," he said.

In August, a Russian mini-submarine stranded deep in the north Pacific Ocean was rescued by a British rescue team that flew to the site from Scotland.
 

scraw

New Member
Re: Royal Australian Navy force enhancements

Berserk Fury said:
Why not just ask for tech and buy a working SRV from the US?
It's actually a Canadian system.

The guys that run it train submariners from other nation in escape techniques so I'd guess it's a management/parts problem.
 

Berserk Fury

New Member
Re: Royal Australian Navy force enhancements

lol.
Didn't know that. But doesn't the US have a similar system?
Why not use that? Or did we integrate the Canadian system?
 

stephen weist

New Member
in this age of fiscal restaint the aus navy seems to be a bit behind. Why are two asm needed. If harpoons are alread in service why buy the penquins and start seperate logistical systems. Also if the only problem with the tanker was the bilge system i'm sure it would not have come anywhere near 50 million to fix. The saved money could have been used for more harpoons.
 

seantheaussie

New Member
stephen weist said:
in this age of fiscal restaint the aus navy seems to be a bit behind. Why are two asm needed. If harpoons are alread in service why buy the penquins and start seperate logistical systems.
So you can kill the enemy while the enemy can only kill a helicopter if they have SAMs which outrange penguin.
 
A

Aussie Digger

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Stephen, Harpoons and Penguins are also used for different roles too. Penguin ASM's are more suited to engaging smaller vessels like patrol boats or fast attack craft. Does it make good fiscal sense to destroy a $750,000 patrol boat with a $1 Million Harpoon? (For instance)

Ship fire Harpoon's also need an aircraft such as the Sea Sprite or Sea Hawk to provide over the horizon targetting. It makes sense to equip this aircraft with a missile system to allow it to conduct "hasty" attacks if necessary or immediate follow-on attacks should the Harpoon fail to significantly damage an enemy vessel.

I actually believe the Navy's Sea Sprites and Seahawk's should ALSO be equipped with Hellfire AGM's. These weapons are now in Army service so they wouldn't be a problem logistically, but would provide an excellent firepower enhancement of the Navy's helo's, particularly for close in surface defence and over-land CAS work, if required.
 

Berserk Fury

New Member
Haven't heard about Exocets in a while.
btw, why use ship-launched harpoons?
Planes would be a possible alternative unless the aussies are doing long-ranged patrols. Hellfire's would be nice though ship bombardment might also work. Or you could modify a MH-1 for ship use.
 
A

Aussie Digger

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Berserk Fury said:
Haven't heard about Exocets in a while.
btw, why use ship-launched harpoons?
Planes would be a possible alternative unless the aussies are doing long-ranged patrols. Hellfire's would be nice though ship bombardment might also work. Or you could modify a MH-1 for ship use.
Australia doesn't (and never has) used Exocets... They are still used by plenty of Navies though and a new 180K+ land attack version has just been developed if you're interested. It can be found on Google.

Ship launched Harpoon missile's provide the RAN's only long range surface to surface Missile system. The new Block II version has a land attack capability, which amongst other things, provides the ADF with it's first and ONLY long range surface to surface missile capability. RAAF F-111's, F/A-18's and AP-3C Orions can all launch Harpoon missiles, and F/A-18's and Orions are being upgraded to fire the new Block II variant.

I'm not quite getting your ship bombardment idea, or MH-1 proposal. What do you mean by this?

Strange...
 

stephen weist

New Member
Aussie, i havnt read up on RAN but do they not have SM2 AA missles, these have a surface capability and can eassily cope with any leakers who might sneak thru the outer defences. also, correct me if i am wrong, but the new harpoons with land attack capabilities do not need mid course guidence so the helecopter is not needed.
 
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