Royal Air Force (RAF-UK) Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Jambo_100
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Perhaps a specific MPA airframe design would offer superior performance but the value for money aspect would suck. Worse still, the unit cost would limit the number most nations could afford and the smaller fleet sizes would negate any performance advantages a dedicated airframe might have.
10 RAF Typhoons have arrived in the US for Red Flag 15-1. One of the key goals is to assess the P1Eb enhancements an evaluate the Typhoons swing role capability. They plan on dropping 20 500lb Paveway IV PGMs as part of that.
They've deployed to Nellis AFB, Nevada.
RAF Typhoons arrive for Red Flag test - 1/14/2015 - Flight Global
They've deployed to Nellis AFB, Nevada.
RAF Typhoons arrive for Red Flag test - 1/14/2015 - Flight Global
Typhoon integration has been rapidly increased with Phase 3 (3!) integration to be completed by 2017.
Typhoon Set For £165M Upgrade, New Missile
It has been announced today that an integration contract for Brimstone 2 onto Typhoon has been signed. Initial fit will be two racks of 3 missiles.
BAE recently unveiled an Arabic BAE site, here's a twitter link to a nice picture of an upgraded Typhoon. Weapon fitout is 2 ASRAAM, 4 AMRAAM, 6 Brimstone 2, 2 Storm Shadow, 4 Paveway IV (on twin racks) + Litening LDP.
Not a proper operational loadout mind, but nice to look at nonetheless.
https://twitter.com/chirine_SDA/status/569542177384230913
So within the next 3 years, Typhoon will be a *proper* multirole aircraft.
Typhoon Set For £165M Upgrade, New Missile
It has been announced today that an integration contract for Brimstone 2 onto Typhoon has been signed. Initial fit will be two racks of 3 missiles.
BAE recently unveiled an Arabic BAE site, here's a twitter link to a nice picture of an upgraded Typhoon. Weapon fitout is 2 ASRAAM, 4 AMRAAM, 6 Brimstone 2, 2 Storm Shadow, 4 Paveway IV (on twin racks) + Litening LDP.
Not a proper operational loadout mind, but nice to look at nonetheless.
https://twitter.com/chirine_SDA/status/569542177384230913
So within the next 3 years, Typhoon will be a *proper* multirole aircraft.
https://www.facebook.com/RAFLossiemouth/posts/932437453455744
Turns out a pair of Sentinels went for Red Flag, they've since returned to the UK but the Typhoons are still out there for another exercise.
Training with 5th gen platforms too is a must, despite it being close to a decade until we have them in significant numbers.
Turns out a pair of Sentinels went for Red Flag, they've since returned to the UK but the Typhoons are still out there for another exercise.
They also ended up dropping 25 instead of 20 Paveway IV bombs. Glad to hear it, with Saudi Typhoons now performing the first independently designated and prosecuted attacks from the aircraft itself, we need to ramp up A2G training for our Typhoon pilots.
Training with 5th gen platforms too is a must, despite it being close to a decade until we have them in significant numbers.
During a visit to Cyprus, Fallon has disclosed more info about UK involvement in Syria strikes.
UK details extent of combat activity over Iraq - 3/2/2015 - Flight Global
Currently deployed at RAF Akrotiri are
An undisclosed number (some other sources claim 4) of Reapers are there too. In terms of strikes, Tornados and Reapers have conducted 374 missions resulting in the release of 206 weapons.
One more quite interesting detail is that our Reapers have started stepping up ISR missions in Syria with 1, 4 and 8 missions being flown in November, December and January respectively.
UK details extent of combat activity over Iraq - 3/2/2015 - Flight Global
Currently deployed at RAF Akrotiri are
- 8 x Tornado
- 2 x E-3D
- 2 x C-130J
- A330 MRTT
An undisclosed number (some other sources claim 4) of Reapers are there too. In terms of strikes, Tornados and Reapers have conducted 374 missions resulting in the release of 206 weapons.
One more quite interesting detail is that our Reapers have started stepping up ISR missions in Syria with 1, 4 and 8 missions being flown in November, December and January respectively.
The RAF's first A400 - City of Bristol - has conducted its first operational mission delivering supplies to Cyprus in support of Op Shader.
RAF flies first A400M mission - IHS Jane's 360
But it's not all roses, the RAF has postponed their IOC declaration from the end of March out to September due to deliveries of aircraft slowing down. The plan was by the end of March we'd be receiving our 7th aircraft but right now we've recenty just hit 2.
Delivery slippages cause UK to delay A400M in-service date - IHS Jane's 360
FOC to be declared in 2022 (the OSD of their Herc fleet) with all aircraft to be fully capable. It'll be interesting to see if UKSF makes moves to try retain some of the C-130J fleet for their needs.
RAF flies first A400M mission - IHS Jane's 360
But it's not all roses, the RAF has postponed their IOC declaration from the end of March out to September due to deliveries of aircraft slowing down. The plan was by the end of March we'd be receiving our 7th aircraft but right now we've recenty just hit 2.
Delivery slippages cause UK to delay A400M in-service date - IHS Jane's 360
FOC to be declared in 2022 (the OSD of their Herc fleet) with all aircraft to be fully capable. It'll be interesting to see if UKSF makes moves to try retain some of the C-130J fleet for their needs.
FOC to be declared in 2022 (the OSD of their Herc fleet) with all aircraft to be fully capable. It'll be interesting to see if UKSF makes moves to try retain some of the C-130J fleet for their needs.[/quote]
Although the MoD was quick to point out that the delays will have a minimum impact on later A400M capability milestones it's clear that there are some serious concerns being raised regarding both delivery and performance issues.
In the UK context the speculation about further delays and the possibility of additional funds being required is particularly untimely given the uncertainty surrounding future military funding following the May elections and the SDSR.
It'll also be interesting to see if there is any impact on the AATF later down the road as the RAF/16X get back into the BG Para game. If that is pushed back beyond 2018 there could be problems, not least from a retention perspective.
Although the MoD was quick to point out that the delays will have a minimum impact on later A400M capability milestones it's clear that there are some serious concerns being raised regarding both delivery and performance issues.
In the UK context the speculation about further delays and the possibility of additional funds being required is particularly untimely given the uncertainty surrounding future military funding following the May elections and the SDSR.
It'll also be interesting to see if there is any impact on the AATF later down the road as the RAF/16X get back into the BG Para game. If that is pushed back beyond 2018 there could be problems, not least from a retention perspective.
Turning some C-130J's into SC-130J's seems like an absolute no brainer as well. The RAF's C-130J's aren't that old. They surely can't be worn out airframe-wise...
the concerned
Active Member
I've often thought that surely everyone would like the MOD to buy the P-8 posiedon . But if it is decided that a alternative is required then the SC-130 must be better than a lot of the other options. When you only just had C-130k's retired after near on 50yrs service then the C-130j's can't be that knackered after less than 20yrs. Living in Cambridge and having worked at Marshall's aerospace on a few occasions I'm sure anything that needs doing on these aircraft they can surely do.
If the Hercs are retained, they'll be retained purely for UKSFOR ops - from the RAF POV, ditching the entire supply chain for the Hercs in favour of a newer aircraft seems best. UK SFOR are apparently keen to retain something a bit smaller than A400M for insertions and short field ops.
We'll see - but I can't seen any spare cabs left over for MPA - and I'd sooner have P8.
3 Chinooks in Afghanistan are to be replaced with upgraded Puma aircraft later this month, specifics weren't reported but 3 had been thrown around before.
UK's upgraded Puma helos prepare for Afghan deployment - IHS Jane's 360
UK's upgraded Puma helos prepare for Afghan deployment - IHS Jane's 360
Figured i would reply to this over here as I can relate it to the RAF significantly more than the AdlA.
Personally, I think the A400M is a great bird for the RAF. Thanks to Iraq/Afghanistan experiences, the sort of vehicles which they'll be transporting have increased in weight and volume. This means that what the UK expects its air transport fleet to do (and driven by the requirements of the Army) requires larger aircraft to lift heavier loads and the extended ranges required.
The C-130J is a good bird, that's a no-brainier, but it simply can't match the A400M in payload, volume, range or speed. Before anyone jumps in and says that I can't compare the two, different roles, strategic v tactical etc, the thing is in this case I can because one is directly replacing the other has the primary aircraft for the UK air transport fleet. So a comparison in my mind is perfectly valid.
The loads the A400M can carry are quite good, there's a list around on the web somewhere with different load configurations. I feel 22 will stand us in very good stead as we'll be able to move much more equipment into theatre faster than before.
Of course, the crux is *into* theatre. The A400M could well be overkill for loads within theatre and I believe that as much as the A400M *could* perform that role, it shouldn't if it can be avoided. Which is why I'm very keen - in an ideal world - to see if a portion of the C-130J fleet can remain. Marshall Aerospace seem capable enough to overhaul the airframes if they've been shagged out, the fleet itself was meant to go out until 2030+ if I remember rightly.
Of course, if that were to happen then associated funding would be required. The question must then be asked if there isn't enough money, what needs to be cut?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The reality is the A400M will soon be the only Western choice for heavy loads and semi-strategic lift now that the C-17 production has ended. Until the issue of AAR for helicopters is resolved with the A400M, the C-130J will be needed and for in-theater lift, it still will be a major player for many air forces.
100% agreed. I'm not saying the A400M is the be-all-and-end-all of air transport, but it's still quite a good bird.
Airbus doubled their production rate from 1.25 to 2.5 aircraft per month to try claw back some time left to the delays.
Airbus doubled their production rate from 1.25 to 2.5 aircraft per month to try claw back some time left to the delays.
Nice F-35 roundup on recent progress + future plans as they are now. The section on the current plans for the UK is IMO very interesting. I think it's a great article.
UK Armed Forces Commentary: An F-35 update
Seems like the plan is that by 2018 we should have the following fleet construct
17(R) Squadron is scheduled to move to RAF Marham in July 2019, there's considerable investment happening at Marham including 3 landing pads for VL training, current hardened aircraft shelters to be modernised, a new integrated training centre, a MRO facility, a VLO coating maintenance facility/RCS lab,
The LRIP split for the recently announced 14 strong order being as follows
When the F-35B enters UK service it'll be cleared for AMRAAM, ASRAAM and Paveway IV. ASRAAM is cleared for only external carriage. The rest are mix-and-match.
There's actually loads of stuff on UK integration plans and I really recommend reading it.
617 Squadron will be worked hard. 2018 is the year they plan on declaring land based IOC and begin flight trials off HMS Queen Elizabeth.
There's no word on when 809 NAS will stand up as of yet. That should be a 2015 SDSR question as it should happen before 2020. My personal opinions on the current state of aircraft numbers is that there is no way we have shrunk from 138 down to 48. I'm not so naive as to think we'll get all of them. No way. But what I definitely can see happening is an additional commitment for 24 (48+24=72) and push out the decision again for SDSR 2020
UK Armed Forces Commentary: An F-35 update
Seems like the plan is that by 2018 we should have the following fleet construct
- 3 OT&E aircraft at Edwards AFB
- 5 training aircraft at MCAS Beaufort (17(R) Squadron)
- 9 operational aircraft at RAF Marham (617 Squadron)
17(R) Squadron is scheduled to move to RAF Marham in July 2019, there's considerable investment happening at Marham including 3 landing pads for VL training, current hardened aircraft shelters to be modernised, a new integrated training centre, a MRO facility, a VLO coating maintenance facility/RCS lab,
The LRIP split for the recently announced 14 strong order being as follows
- 4 in LRIP 8
- 6 in LRIP 9
- 4 in LRIP 10
When the F-35B enters UK service it'll be cleared for AMRAAM, ASRAAM and Paveway IV. ASRAAM is cleared for only external carriage. The rest are mix-and-match.
There's actually loads of stuff on UK integration plans and I really recommend reading it.
617 Squadron will be worked hard. 2018 is the year they plan on declaring land based IOC and begin flight trials off HMS Queen Elizabeth.
There's no word on when 809 NAS will stand up as of yet. That should be a 2015 SDSR question as it should happen before 2020. My personal opinions on the current state of aircraft numbers is that there is no way we have shrunk from 138 down to 48. I'm not so naive as to think we'll get all of them. No way. But what I definitely can see happening is an additional commitment for 24 (48+24=72) and push out the decision again for SDSR 2020
Yesss ... I don't see the KC-390 as being good at AAR for helicopters.
Maybe a C-295 AAR version? Something with a plug & play system like that on A400M.
Reports coming out of The Sun that the RAF are to get 12 P-8 MPA.
I know, I don't believe it either, at least not until it's something official. Still, it's the sort of decision we expect to be made relatively soon although not really until SDSR 2015. The graphic accompanying the article (which is behind a paywall) describes how a MAD boom works. . . .
The Sun
An A400M destined for the Turkish Air Force has crashed in Spain, at least 4 are dead with two more badly injured.
MoD suspends use of two military planes after Spanish crash - BBC News
The RAF have grounded their pair of aircraft as a precaution.
I know, I don't believe it either, at least not until it's something official. Still, it's the sort of decision we expect to be made relatively soon although not really until SDSR 2015. The graphic accompanying the article (which is behind a paywall) describes how a MAD boom works. . . .
The Sun
An A400M destined for the Turkish Air Force has crashed in Spain, at least 4 are dead with two more badly injured.
MoD suspends use of two military planes after Spanish crash - BBC News
The RAF have grounded their pair of aircraft as a precaution.
A4kscooter
Member
If its true about the P8 it is great news but I hope it doesn't cost the Sentinel and/or Shadow fleets.
With the current potential threat from Russia & ISIS if the UK operated P8/Sentinel/Shadow/AirSeeker we would have very capable capabilities.
With the current potential threat from Russia & ISIS if the UK operated P8/Sentinel/Shadow/AirSeeker we would have very capable capabilities.
The Sunday Express ran a similar story: Russian nuclear submarine threat to see £2billion to be invested in RAF jets | UK | News | Daily Express