Royal Air Force (RAF-UK) Discussions and Updates

[RobWilliams]

The Sunday Express ran a similar story: Russian nuclear submarine threat to see £2billion to be invested in RAF jets | UK | News | Daily Express

Yeah, they both rank the same in terms of credibility, they usually piggy-back eachother in stories like this.

Still, glad to see buying the P-8 getting some sort of press, credible or not.

If its true about the P8 it is great news but I hope it doesn't cost the Sentinel and/or Shadow fleets.
With the current potential threat from Russia & ISIS if the UK operated P8/Sentinel/Shadow/AirSeeker we would have very capable capabilities.

I'd be quite happy to bin Sentinel if we could wangle 2-3 more P-8 airframes and see if we could get a few AAS kits. IMO that'd be fantastic, although i do accept i'm wandering into fantasy fleet territory.

The numbers have been called into question & rightly so, most assume a small purchase of something like 6-8 being enough to tide us over or even leasing something like 4 similar to the C-17 procurement program.

P-8 isn't without problems though. Either we pay to integrate Stingray and use the airframe at lower altitudes thus stressing the airframe more, or buy a limited stock of Mk46 with wingkits.

Frankly, i'd prefer the latter.

 

[RobWilliams]

Interesting snippet in this piece about UK C-130 upgrades, it appears (according to DefenseNews at least) that there's still debate going on inside the UK about whether to hang on to 7 or 8 Hercs for SF work.

UK Set To Start C-130J Upgrade Flight Tests

Course, that's an SDSR problem right there.

 

[StobieWan]

Interesting snippet in this piece about UK C-130 upgrades, it appears (according to DefenseNews at least) that there's still debate going on inside the UK about whether to hang on to 7 or 8 Hercs for SF work.

UK Set To Start C-130J Upgrade Flight Tests

Course, that's an SDSR problem right there.

Doesn't surprise me - the A400M is a mighty lifter but it's a big old girl to get into a short strip doing sneaky Pete stuff.

 

[the concerned]

People here would know I quite often sit down at Duxford and watch aircraft movements and have seen c-130's go in and out . Could the A-400m get in there or not.

 

[StobieWan]

People here would know I quite often sit down at Duxford and watch aircraft movements and have seen c-130's go in and out . Could the A-400m get in there or not.

Yes - the paved run way is 1500m long, about double the tactical length the A400 needs.

 

[RobWilliams]

No UK Spear Cap 3 Decision on F-35 until 2018

Not great, but not unexpected. I really hope the UK decides to go with Spear 3 over SDB II. It's been considered as being the way the UK could conduct SEAD/DEAD considering it'd be an 8-capacity internally carried weapon.

Block 4 software's still a bit of a clusterf*ck as it hasn't yet been defined IIRC

 

[RobWilliams]

Soon the UK will start testing the A400M to suit UK specific equipment like parachutes, air delivery systems etc.

UK to begin testing national A400M capabilities shortly - IHS Jane's 360

The UK plans to role out the capabilities in multiple tranches. Tranche 1 is the basic strategic airlift capability (Sept 2015), tranche 2 is 'Non-permissive environment' and inter-theatre capability in 2016 with the latter being a deployable capability in 2017, tranche 3 is tactical airlift and para-drops in late 2017 And tranche 4 being full operational capability including full support capability for 16 Air Assault brigade in the 2018-2022 timeframe.

The article also describes pilot training, all pilots will be capable of the strategic airlift mission, the cream of those will go on to tactical training with a cadre of those doing low level flight training and other SF tasking training.

The 3rd A400M has been delivered to Brize Norton today too.

 

[Gibbo]

T6C for RAF

Has the deal with Affinity for new trainers etc been signed yet? Just curious as to when an order for T6C is likely.

 

[RobWilliams]

Don't think so, I haven't heard much and when I look into it all I can find is reports dating to October last year when they won the contract.

Most likely it'll come after SDSR 2015.

 

[ngatimozart]

I see that the Kawasaki P1 is going to be present at this years RIAT on 17 - 19 July 2015 at RAF Fairford. The aim is to market it to the UK as an MPA.

 

[swerve]

My heart says yes, my head says no.

 

[StobieWan]

I am not fancying it. I'm sure it's a nice aircraft but we need something that works, off the shelf.

Will P1 already have a globalised (ie, English) combat system and flight management menus for instance? That might be quite a piece of work right there.

 

[swerve]

I expect the combat system will work in English, because they'd want everything to work seamlessly with US forces - both ways. It's all the other stuff that bothers me. Weapons? Have to integrate anything that isn't Japanese or American. Engines unique, with no commercial or allied military (within reach in a hurry) supply chain to fall back on. The same for most other parts. No local suppliers unless we replaced lots of bits, which would be expensive & time-consuming & introduce development risk.

If there was some joint European buy, with integration of selected local stuff (& I'd extend that to major things we know work & have been successfully put into new types, such as FITS), I'd love it. But reality keeps breaking through . . . that isn't going to happen.

 

[RobWilliams]

I'm really excited to hear that, i've got tickets for an arrival day and departure day so hopefully i'll see them come in!

 

[Air Force Brat]

I'm really excited to hear that, i've got tickets for an arrival day and departure day so hopefully i'll see them come in!

Now that makes me jealous Rob, I would like to go to Oshkosh this year as the F-35 and F-22 will both be there, this is the first civilian airshow appearance for the F-35.

Any word on when the F-35 might make its debut in the UK?

 

[Air Force Brat]

C-130

Interesting snippet in this piece about UK C-130 upgrades, it appears (according to DefenseNews at least) that there's still debate going on inside the UK about whether to hang on to 7 or 8 Hercs for SF work.

UK Set To Start C-130J Upgrade Flight Tests

Course, that's an SDSR problem right there.

Well the C-130A Dash 1 was my first reading primer, my Dad was an IP on the C-130, when he went to SEA, he flew the MC-130E, heavy chain/rivet yard, which later became the Combat Talon I, it had terrain following radar, and the Fulton Recovery system.

I was prolly the only 4 year old on base, who had a rudimentary understanding of the fire control system on those big Allisons, you had two shots, first pull of the handle was one shot, rotate the handle to the vertical for your second shot. The A model had 3 bladed props and was a virtual fighter plane to fly, ole Pappy loved that bird, transitioned out of C-119s into 130s and never looked back, and never looked around, he flew it until he retired from LRAFB in Arkansas about 1972.

no doubt the C-130 will continue to be our heavy lifter into the future, although Air-Bus is planning on selling a few to the US military? of course C-17 production is coming to an end, not so for the C-130.

The US Navy landed a C-130 on a carrier in olden days, took off as well, it is a very healthy performer to be able to do that even once. They concluded it was too risky to be a regular practice due to size.

 

[RobWilliams]

Now that makes me jealous Rob, I would like to go to Oshkosh this year as the F-35 and F-22 will both be there, this is the first civilian airshow appearance for the F-35.

Any word on when the F-35 might make its debut in the UK?

Same back mate, I'd love to see an F-22! No idea about F-35 in the UK, probably next year. RIAT officially said there wouldn't be an F-35 this year primarily because the USMC declaring IOC is the priority.

I'm mixed about the F-35, considering how many EU nations are buying 'em they'll become the next Tornado

 

[RobWilliams]

no doubt the C-130 will continue to be our heavy lifter into the future, although Air-Bus is planning on selling a few to the US military? of course C-17 production is coming to an end, not so for the C-130.

The US Navy landed a C-130 on a carrier in olden days, took off as well, it is a very healthy performer to be able to do that even once. They concluded it was too risky to be a regular practice due to size.

Interesting, cheers for the information!

Last I heard, Airbus offered a package of something like 117 A400Ms, although naturally it never went anywhere. I've got high hopes for Brimstone in the US though, hopefully that goes through because that (and more so Brimstone 2) is one good quality system.

Yeah that was USS Forrestal I think, it was a cool task indeed.

 

[t68]

Interesting, cheers for the information!

Last I heard, Airbus offered a package of something like 117 A400Ms, although naturally it never went anywhere. I've got high hopes for Brimstone in the US though, hopefully that goes through because that (and more so Brimstone 2) is one good quality system.

Yeah that was USS Forrestal I think, it was a cool task indeed.

That's interesting I had not heard about the package of A400M for the US. As far as I can tell the USAF wants to have a replacement for the C130J for 2024, unless their is some fantastic new program out there I can't see the US fielding a new aircraft in that time unles they go with one of two options
1, increase the size of the of the current Hercules
2, decrease the size of the C17 and put smaller jet engines on them or
3, the most logical is to licence build A400M in the United States

 

[swerve]

In decreasing order of probability, some being pretty much zero -
4. Buy C-2 from Japan or build it under licence.
5. Americanise An-70 & build it in the USA.
6. Revive C-15 (note that your 2 is reversing the process which led from YC-15 to C-17).

I've discounted KC-390 as its only a very little bit bigger than C-130.