contedicavour
New Member
or sometimes of trade & commercial issuesEast said:
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Response to North Korea Missile launch
- Thread starter zoolander
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contedicavour
New Member
Apparently enough to reach Alaska, or may be even the American West Coast. No wonder everybody is very worried about this new IRBM, or should I say ICBM...Red aRRow said:
Only the people who have a bone to pick with N. Kora are worried. I would rather worry about nuclear missiles held by states which have a history of attacking other countries on false pretexts and/or dropping nuclear weapons on other countries or by countries which proliferate nuclear weapons to other countries (e.g. France to Israel or U.S. to India).contedicavour said:
Atleast N. Korea doesn't go around preaching peace while selling weapons on the side. The countries that do are hypocritical and double faced. Anyways I think this is degenerating into a political debate so lets get back to topic....i.e. what would be the response from our double faced 'preachers of peace' countries this time.Waylander said:Oh common. As if NK is not selling its nuclear and missile tech to everyone who wants it and pays cash with dollars.
North Korea
North Korea has again demonstrated how weak is the US. The US is full of rhetoric yet takes no action. The Americans & the free world are deluding themselves that North Korea & other terrorist nations can be negotiated. They forgot the lessons of history that mad men like Hitler do not give a dammed about negotiations. Terrorist nations only understand the use of brute force! North Korea & Iran knew that the US does not have the will power to fight a long & bloody war.
During World War II, 2,000 died during the attack in Pear Harbor. Yet the US mobilize 14,000,000 men & 500,000 willingly sacrificetheir lives to win the war. During 9/11 more than 3,000 Americans died, more than the Pearl Harbor casualties yet there was no general mobilization. This new American generation is shamefully indifferent to what is happening & is about to happen to their country. North Korea & other terrorist countries are determine to win because they knew that this new American generation does not have the endurance & perseverance necessary to win a long & bloody war. This weakness & lack of will power will unfortunately lead to the destruction of America.
North Korea has again demonstrated how weak is the US. The US is full of rhetoric yet takes no action. The Americans & the free world are deluding themselves that North Korea & other terrorist nations can be negotiated. They forgot the lessons of history that mad men like Hitler do not give a dammed about negotiations. Terrorist nations only understand the use of brute force! North Korea & Iran knew that the US does not have the will power to fight a long & bloody war.
During World War II, 2,000 died during the attack in Pear Harbor. Yet the US mobilize 14,000,000 men & 500,000 willingly sacrificetheir lives to win the war. During 9/11 more than 3,000 Americans died, more than the Pearl Harbor casualties yet there was no general mobilization. This new American generation is shamefully indifferent to what is happening & is about to happen to their country. North Korea & other terrorist countries are determine to win because they knew that this new American generation does not have the endurance & perseverance necessary to win a long & bloody war. This weakness & lack of will power will unfortunately lead to the destruction of America.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Mate i have to say that i think all of that is total BS. i agree that rouge nations have to be dealt with and cant just be appeased. But you cant say that the U.S. and the west is "weak" because we dont go marching across the DMZ or immediatly nuke Pyonyang and Tehran. And 9/11 and pearl harbour happened in compleatly different circumstances. Pearl Harbour was an act by a large, indusrialised modern state with large armed forces and occured in the greater context of world war 2, the apex of industrial warfare. 9/11 was an operation carried out by a terrorist orginisation hiding under a weak government that couldn't stand up to 5% of peacetime U.S. military power. So the fact the U.S. didn't react in the same way as it did 60 years ago under compleatly different circumstances means that the're weak? And look at their commitment to Vietnam, a war lasting over 10 yerars that cost them over 50 000 dead and had dubiouse strategig gains. You think that if there was a really dangerouse threat to global security, like an invasion of S Korea by the North or the use of nuclear weapons by tehran that the U.S. wouldn't be willing go all out? Personally i dont understand this "american generation is weak" theory, there is no evidence to support it. The same arguments were made at the begining of WW2, and look at what those soft little arkasaw boys did. It doesn't make much scence to just invade and destroy annother nation because of their political ideals. Granted that if these nations get too beligerant action should be taken, but we cant just go destroying rougue nations. There are allways better ways to achieve your objectives than all out war. that kind of attitude isn't going to make the west manny friends and will probibly amplify the problem later on. So dont count the yanks out of a full scale war with n Korea or iran if they step too far out of line. or if you have some evidence of this american "softness" id love to hear it, you might change my mind?watchman said:North Korea has again demonstrated how weak is the US. The US is full of rhetoric yet takes no action. The Americans & the free world are deluding themselves that North Korea & other terrorist nations can be negotiated. They forgot the lessons of history that mad men like Hitler do not give a dammed about negotiations. Terrorist nations only understand the use of brute force! North Korea & Iran knew that the US does not have the will power to fight a long & bloody war.
During World War II, 2,000 died during the attack in Pear Harbor. Yet the US mobilize 14,000,000 men & 500,000 willingly sacrificetheir lives to win the war. During 9/11 more than 3,000 Americans died, more than the Pearl Harbor casualties yet there was no general mobilization. This new American generation is shamefully indifferent to what is happening & is about to happen to their country. North Korea & other terrorist countries are determine to win because they knew that this new American generation does not have the endurance & perseverance necessary to win a long & bloody war. This weakness & lack of will power will unfortunately lead to the destruction of America.
I totally agree with Ozzy Blizzard.
Just imagine how South Korea would thank you if you attack NK just because of ONE rocket which not even worked.
An attack at NK would bring destruction all over the korean peninsula with SK suffering thousand of civilian casualties just because of the first artillery volley of thousands of guns against Seoul. Not to talk of the rest of the war.
Brute force is not the best answer to everything.
Just imagine how South Korea would thank you if you attack NK just because of ONE rocket which not even worked.
An attack at NK would bring destruction all over the korean peninsula with SK suffering thousand of civilian casualties just because of the first artillery volley of thousands of guns against Seoul. Not to talk of the rest of the war.
Brute force is not the best answer to everything.
The difference is, of course, North Korea has the means of annihilating entire cities with nuclear weapons. And has, or shortly will have , the means to deliver them onto our cities. They will also have the means, and probably the will, to sell the stuff to others including possibly to terrorists groups.
9/11, and probably London, were attacks carried out by an International terrorist group that had heavy financing and recruitment among many Muslim nations with said support often winked at, if not aided, by many Muslim Govt.'s.
9/11, and probably London, were attacks carried out by an International terrorist group that had heavy financing and recruitment among many Muslim nations with said support often winked at, if not aided, by many Muslim Govt.'s.
I guess you forgot about their ballistic missile exports and involvement in the Khan network. As far as I can remember they are the only nation that exports ballistic missiles. But yes, its true, the midget with the hairpiece doesn't go around preaching peace.
contedicavour
New Member
The best thing the US and Japan can do to stop North Korea without going to war is to invest massively in anti-missile programmes such as SM-3 for Aegis destroyers and Patriot PAC-3 or even better, MEADS.
Make the N. Korean threat irrelevant and this will push their regime to look for other ways of blackmailing its neighbors into commercial agreements and handouts.
At least behind the N. Korean dictator's actions there is no extremist ideology, just pure and simple blackmail
Make the N. Korean threat irrelevant and this will push their regime to look for other ways of blackmailing its neighbors into commercial agreements and handouts.
At least behind the N. Korean dictator's actions there is no extremist ideology, just pure and simple blackmail
Americans can stomach a full-scale all-out war. We just can't stomach losing one.
But that's also part of the American culture. Americans love a winner. We also love self-made individuals who take the initiative and are willing to think outside the box to solve problems. Our ability to do this is part of what gave us such an edge during the second world war against Japan. If you don't believe me, just do some research on airplane mechanics and how they got their airplanes back into the air.
But we'll never win a war using bullets against an enemy with clashing religious ideologies. It's never happened in the past, and it's certainly never going to happen in the future. If we, Americans, want to win the war in Iraq, we're going to have to invest heavily into infrastructure, probably even more heavily than we're doing right now. We need to give these people something to live for and a means to NOT dawn on a bombsuit and blow others up. The most interesting thing about the world's three primary religions is that they all share the same God. Muslims, Christians, and Jews all pray to the father of Abraham. Do you think a God who teaches peace, love, and tolerance to his peoples will reward someone who takes out 40 other people, including themselves, in a grand finale of tnt? No, I don't think so, but how are they to know that when their education system is as lacking as it is?
I don't think most of those religious cleric nutcases who are telling others to suicide bomb each other believe even a fraction of what they preach. No, it's all about retaining their power over the sheep willing to do exactly as they command. Osama bin Laden? He knows exactly what he's doing. It's the same thing that keeps Kim Jong from giving up his position in favor of a better life. Why give it up when you have thousands, or even millions, already at your command? It's all about power position, and people in it, regardless of the circumstances they're in, often don't like to give it up.
It'll be education that wins this war, and it will take decades to start seeing results. Our greatest allies in the Middle East aren't the men in power, they aren't the warlords in charge, it's the women. While I don't expect any of them to change their dress outfits that go over top of their heads (forgive me, I don't know what they're correctly called), I can imagine a lot of them are eyeing western women and the fact that we don't treat ours like second class citizens (not to say that all of them do). Women also have most of the say over the children, and it will be there that we win this war.
Indoctrination? Far from it. Investment in their educational system is the greatest thing you can do for a nation. Higher education means access to better jobs, creation of better jobs, higher levels of creative and rational thinking, higher incomes, and an overall greater GDP. I'm just preaching to the choir here. When they have something to live for, they'll think twice before putting on the bomb suit and taking entire city squares out along with them. The entire idea of suicide bombing is completely ludicrous, but I wonder just how many of them realize that?
Edit- I realize this post is a little off topic from the main post.
But that's also part of the American culture. Americans love a winner. We also love self-made individuals who take the initiative and are willing to think outside the box to solve problems. Our ability to do this is part of what gave us such an edge during the second world war against Japan. If you don't believe me, just do some research on airplane mechanics and how they got their airplanes back into the air.
But we'll never win a war using bullets against an enemy with clashing religious ideologies. It's never happened in the past, and it's certainly never going to happen in the future. If we, Americans, want to win the war in Iraq, we're going to have to invest heavily into infrastructure, probably even more heavily than we're doing right now. We need to give these people something to live for and a means to NOT dawn on a bombsuit and blow others up. The most interesting thing about the world's three primary religions is that they all share the same God. Muslims, Christians, and Jews all pray to the father of Abraham. Do you think a God who teaches peace, love, and tolerance to his peoples will reward someone who takes out 40 other people, including themselves, in a grand finale of tnt? No, I don't think so, but how are they to know that when their education system is as lacking as it is?
I don't think most of those religious cleric nutcases who are telling others to suicide bomb each other believe even a fraction of what they preach. No, it's all about retaining their power over the sheep willing to do exactly as they command. Osama bin Laden? He knows exactly what he's doing. It's the same thing that keeps Kim Jong from giving up his position in favor of a better life. Why give it up when you have thousands, or even millions, already at your command? It's all about power position, and people in it, regardless of the circumstances they're in, often don't like to give it up.
It'll be education that wins this war, and it will take decades to start seeing results. Our greatest allies in the Middle East aren't the men in power, they aren't the warlords in charge, it's the women. While I don't expect any of them to change their dress outfits that go over top of their heads (forgive me, I don't know what they're correctly called), I can imagine a lot of them are eyeing western women and the fact that we don't treat ours like second class citizens (not to say that all of them do). Women also have most of the say over the children, and it will be there that we win this war.
Indoctrination? Far from it. Investment in their educational system is the greatest thing you can do for a nation. Higher education means access to better jobs, creation of better jobs, higher levels of creative and rational thinking, higher incomes, and an overall greater GDP. I'm just preaching to the choir here. When they have something to live for, they'll think twice before putting on the bomb suit and taking entire city squares out along with them. The entire idea of suicide bombing is completely ludicrous, but I wonder just how many of them realize that?
Edit- I realize this post is a little off topic from the main post.
You forgot the fact that the Japanese Empire was organized military force, capable of a full invasion of US soil. The 9/11 terror attacks were pretty much a single coordinated attacks, the possibility that Taliban launch a full scale invasion in the US is zero, they can't do that...watchman said:During World War II, 2,000 died during the attack in Pear Harbor. Yet the US mobilize 14,000,000 men & 500,000 willingly sacrificetheir lives to win the war. During 9/11 more than 3,000 Americans died, more than the Pearl Harbor casualties yet there was no general mobilization. This new American generation is shamefully indifferent to what is happening & is about to happen to their country. North Korea & other terrorist countries are determine to win because they knew that this new American generation does not have the endurance & perseverance necessary to win a long & bloody war. This weakness & lack of will power will unfortunately lead to the destruction of America.
If the North Korea missiles hit US, they will probably mobilize forces to invade North Korea. But that will probably bring lots of critisism from China, Russia and South Korea, I mean, who wants Americans in their backyard? That will probably cause the collapse of the communist regime and the reunification of two Koreas, however rebuilding the North will not be an easy task... China and South Korea will probably contribute the most.
LtDragon said:
Thats definately not true. WIth the exception of Hawaii the Japanese were only capable of limited raids. And even their attack on Pearl was only a mere pin prick and had no lasting affect on US war making capacity except to make it stronger. The asymetric forces of today, Rogue states with Ballistic Missiles, AQ ect. are far more dangerous to CONUS than a manuever force.
contedicavour
New Member
That's true ! If the Enterprise and the Hornet and the Wasp had been in Pearl Harbor, the USN would not have been able to counterattack Japan before spring 1944 at best (building a carrier from scratch back then took 2 years minimum).Waylander said:If they would have arrived some days earlier the mighty US carrier force would have been sunk and with it most plans to stop Japan from achieving its goals in the pacific.
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contedicavour
New Member
Yep and they almost made it by the way... controlling most of coastal China, all of Korea, all of Indochina, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines and most islands. If the USN had lost its carriers at Pearl, that would have left the Japanese a further 2-3 years to consolidate their dominance and potentially occupy bits of India and Australia. What a nightmare scenario, happily enough the Enterprise, Hornet, Saratoga and Wasp lived onWaylander said:
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