Philippine Air Force Discussions and Updates

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Well, whether it is given by local Philippines bank, but the implications from my point of view, is simply a Philippines bank must confirmed that DI has financial back up, to finished/delivered the project. The way that they (Philippines bank) can comfirmed it, is ussualy by getting comfirmation from DI's bank that they already have guaranteed or even have provided DI's with committed credit line.

Off course Philippines DoD will not asked whether DI has enough working capital or not. But the implications on asking any credit comfirmation by the buyer, in sense it is asking the bidder as potential supplier whether thay have enough financial back up to finish the project, ie; whether you have enough working capital to finish 'my' order.

Like I said before, it's less seldom being asked, but not unheard of. Off course I'm talking on general commercial bidding, not just defense procurement.
 

Filipinas

Banned Member
FA-50 Buy Puts Manila Back in the Fighter Jet Business

Flight Global

http://www.koreaaero.com/english/pr_center/cpr_list.asp

28 Mar 2014
By: Greg Waldron
Singapore Source: Flightglobal.com

The Philippines has signed a contract for 12 Korea Aerospace Industries FA-50 fighter aircraft.The deal is worth $420 million, with all aircraft to be delivered within 38 months after the contract goes into effect, says KAI in a statement. The long-awaited deal was signed between the governments of the Philippines and South Korea, KAI adds.The announcement marks an important step for Manila, which has no operational fighter aircraft after it retired its Northrop F-5s in 2004.

During the 2000s its focus was primarily on counterinsurgency missions in the southern Philippines, but Chinas increasing assertiveness in the South China Sea has prompted Manila to rethink its conventional capabilities.The FA-50 is a logical choice for Manila because the aircraft, based on the T-50 advanced jet trainer, can serve in both training and light combat roles.Powered by a single General Electric F404 engine with afterburner, the FA-50 is entering service with the South Korean air force, and in late December Iraq signed a $1.1 billion contract for 24 aircraft. In 2011, Jakarta signed a $400 million deal for 16 T-50s, which is designated the T-50i in Indonesian service.
 
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Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Please refrain from simply copy-pasting entire news articles and turning threads into news ribbons. We expect to see personal input to a user's posts, not just copy-pasted work belonging to someone else. It's against the forum rules to do this.

I know you're new but please don't make a habit of this. Thanks mate.
 

Filipinas

Banned Member
The PAF also recently signed a purchased contract with Canadian Commercial Corporation for the acquisition of 8 new Bell 412EP helicopters , deliveries are scheduled to start next year . Additionally it has also signed a contract for the purchased of 8 brand new AW-109 attack variant helicopters from Italy last year with deliveries starting late 2014.

Link to Bell Helicopters press release

Bell Helicopter Finalizes Agreement for Eight Bell 412EPs to Canadian Commercial Corporation to be Used by Philippines Department of National Defense

Agusta Westland

Philippine Air Force Signs Contract for Eight AW109 Power helicopters

[Mod Edit: Warning issued about converting a number of discussion threads into news ribbons. While we prefer discussions that are linked to sources, the citing of news reports alone is not sufficient. A comment from you (in relation to the news cited), that is at least 3 lines in length is required, in any future posts by you.

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When is Philippine FA50 be ready?? You guys need to patrol your territory ASAP.
Not until the middle of next year and into 2016 but the air force has some S-211's that are still capable of conducting maritime patrol duties , also the brand new AW-109 naval helicopters of the navy can do maritime patrols as it has an extended range .

[Mod edit: Filipinas has been perm banned for deleting two Mod Warnings issued in two threads, despite being told that no reply to the Mod Warnings are necessary.

In fact, he edited out the Mod Warning that 'no reply to the Mod Warnings are necessary.']
 
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colay

New Member
I would think that the PAF should be taking a serious look,at acquiring a MALE UAV capability as a next,step in it's modernization program. The extended range/endurance to do,extended ISR will provide the Philippines a capability never before possible. Lots of solutions,available in the marketplace.
 

colay

New Member
Do they have the budget for this?
Probably not, a lot of resources are going into modernizing and expanding it's ground-based radar network and other less exotic stuff. But still a platform,that provides persistent overwatch capability over their maritime environment will be quite advantageous if funds are available.
 

colay

New Member
Guess it could ask military financial assistance from the US.
Nothing new there, the strategic relationship has been reinvigorated under the current administration. A Predator modified for the Maritime mission would provide a whole new level in capability. Maybe if no outright ownership, a joint operating arrangement with the US until funds are available?

Unmanned, Over Water, On Guard | Defense Media Network
 
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Jeneral2885

Banned Member
Nothing new there, the strategic relationship has been reinvigorated under the current administration. A Predator modified for the Maritime mission would provide a whole new level in capability. Maybe if no outright ownership, a joint operating arrangement with the US until funds are available?

Unmanned, Over Water, On Guard | Defense Media Network
As I said it depends if there is Congressional approval, the ownership--to what extent is it joint, unarmed or armed and the impact of the strategic environment in the Asia Pacific region.

US budgets wise its not immediately possible in my view.

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Jeneral2885

Banned Member
As I said it depends if there is Congressional approval, the ownership--to what extent is it joint, unarmed or armed and the impact of the strategic environment in the Asia Pacific region.

US budgets wise its not immediately possible in my view.

[Mod Edit: Please note that you have had two posts deleted in this thread because they are one-liners. Warning issued for continued failure to read and observe Forum Rules. There will be no further warnings on this pattern of behaviour, as you have been told this by other members of the Mod Team.

Have fun posting but remember to keep the Forum Rules in mind when doing so.

Further, there is no need to reply to this warning. Any attempt to delete this warning or engage in further backchat to the Mod Team will lead to administrative sanctions. ]
I was simply asking a question on the PAF's budget and predicting it was be close to impossible that they ever get advanced RPAS like the Reaper. The other poster said yes it could be possible to gather military assistance and have joint ownership. I had to reply back since that in my view was highly impossible and it ADDs to the whole discussion.

Can you write an essay here?
[Mod Edit: Good bye and good riddance to the little troll. See additional warnings issued here, here, and here, across multiple threads. ]
 
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Jeneral2885

Banned Member
Nothing new there, the strategic relationship has been reinvigorated under the current administration. A Predator modified for the Maritime mission would provide a whole new level in capability. Maybe if no outright ownership, a joint operating arrangement with the US until funds are available?

Unmanned, Over Water, On Guard | Defense Media Network
Can you give me other instances when the PAF or the armed forces has joint ownership or operational ownership with the US over such advanced technologies? So far, it seeems your answers and general as well.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Can you give me other instances when the PAF or the armed forces has joint ownership or operational ownership with the US over such advanced technologies? So far, it seeems your answers and general as well.
You just don't get it do you, wish I could say your presence has been entertaining, don't think it will last much longer, maybe you are better suited to the types of forums that don't have actual input and are obviously not monitored by Mods.

We have an active Mod team on here especially for this very reason so we don't have to put up with this crap, your a troll, and not a very good one at that
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Positive news for Philipines Ground Area defense monitoring system, with finalization moved on 3 ground based radar system. 3 Elta systems with according to this with detection range of 350 miles. Will be stationed on 3 area, with one area new sites in Palawan, and 2 replacing old and unoperational military radar in Lubang Island and Pasuquin Air Station.

350 miles Elta system probably refered to Elta ELM-2288ER, which according to Elta brochure has range of 430 km or close to 350 miles that being mentioned.

Positive move, which addition to acquisition of 12 FA-50, will also provide fast jets (eventhough only LIFT, but capable for limited air defense) to intercepted. Puting the radar in Palawan will also give strong signal on whose those Aerial defense radar is aiming for.

PH finalizing P2.68B air defense radar deal with Israel

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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Positive news for Philipines Ground Area defense monitoring system, with finalization moved on 3 ground based radar system. 3 Elta systems with according to this with detection range of 350 miles. Will be stationed on 3 area, with one area new sites in Palawan, and 2 replacing old and unoperational military radar in Lubang Island and Pasuquin Air Station.

350 miles Elta system probably refered to Elta ELM-2288ER, which according to Elta brochure has range of 430 km or close to 350 miles that being mentioned.

Positive move, which addition to acquisition of 12 FA-50, will also provide fast jets (eventhough only LIFT, but capable for limited air defense) to intercepted. Puting the radar in Palawan will also give strong signal on whose those Aerial defense radar is aiming for.

PH finalizing P2.68B air defense radar deal with Israel

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Good news, thanks!
So, according to Deal to buy 12 fighters jets from South Korea reached | Inquirer Global Nation the first two fighter jets will be delivered 18 months after the contract signing, that means around March 2015.

Actually quite confusing, the Indonesian Airforce operates the armed T-50I which is not a TA-50, but a T-50 variant. While the Phillipines will get the T-50PH which is actually a FA-50.....
Why not just TA-50I and FA-50PH?
 

dumpster4

New Member
From Reuters:

Japan may give planes to Manila for South China Sea patrols: sources:

"Japan wants to give planes to the Philippines that Manila could use for patrols in the South China Sea, sources said, a move that would deepen Tokyo's security ties with the Southeast Asian nation most at odds with Beijing over the disputed waterway.

Four sources with knowledge of the matter told Reuters that Japan was looking to offer three Beechcraft TC-90 King Air planes that could be fitted with basic surface and air surveillance radar.

They said talks within the Japanese government were preliminary and would need to overcome legal hurdles. Japan had yet to formally propose the planes as an alternative to more sophisticated Lockheed Martin P3-C aircraft that Manila wants to track Chinese submarine activity, they added."


Note: Can't post links yet, otherwise I'd link to this article.
 
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OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Welcome to the forum and we hope to see more substantial contributions from you (in terms of your personal comments on news sources), in future. By the way, there is a discussion thread on issues relating to the South China Sea thoughts?.

B.S. Aquino III has demonstrated a consistent inability to understand defence matters (see my prior 2013 three part post at — part 1, part 2 and part 3) and will not be able to effectively lead the Philippines with his continued incompetence in crisis management. More recently on 29 January 2015, 42 of the 44 members of the Philippine National Police’s Special Action Force (PNP SAF) arrived in Manila to a heroes' welcome in caskets. While the PNP SAF's raid on 25 January 2015 killed wanted terrorist Zulkifli bin Hir (also known as Marwan) and the death of these policemen also caused a firestorm in the Philippines, threatening the peace deal the government reached with Moro rebels. It has also shaken faith in the B.S. Aquino III administration, with opposition lawmakers calling for the president’s impeachment. These policemen were slain in what the government called a "misencounter" with Moro rebels in Mamasapano town, Maguindanao. As they say, the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
From Reuters:

Japan may give planes to Manila for South China Sea patrols: sources:

"Japan wants to give planes to the Philippines that Manila could use for patrols in the South China Sea, sources said, a move that would deepen Tokyo's security ties with the Southeast Asian nation most at odds with Beijing over the disputed waterway.

Four sources with knowledge of the matter told Reuters that Japan was looking to offer three Beechcraft TC-90 King Air planes that could be fitted with basic surface and air surveillance radar.

They said talks within the Japanese government were preliminary and would need to overcome legal hurdles. Japan had yet to formally propose the planes as an alternative to more sophisticated Lockheed Martin P3-C aircraft that Manila wants to track Chinese submarine activity, they added."
Beyond your news link there are three projects worthy of further discussion in terms of their implications for the current Philippine defense modernisation efforts.

One, the Combat Utility Helicopter (CUH) project, where 8 Bell 412EP helicopters were delivered from Canada. This will augment their government's ability to respond to HADR events, like typhoons. The Philippine state, regardless of the political will of its officials in the run up to or the immediate aftermath of a natural calamity, has traditionally suffered from a profound capacity deficit. As Richard Javad Heydarian noted in November 2013:

"The other chief structural weakness of the Philippine state is its armed forces, especially the Philippine Air Force (PAF), which is yet to refurbish its small fleet of antiquated aircrafts. Lack of strategic foresight, overreliance on external partners, and chronic corruption has deprived the PAF and other branches of the armed forces of much-needed funds to modernize and enhance its capacities."​

Two, the Surface Attack Aircraft/Lead-in Fighter Trainer (SAA/LIFT) acquisition project, the contract for 12 FA-50 was signed with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) — the details of which were posted by Sandhi Yudha. This will get them started on the road to getting back to the fighter business - which was the basis of starting this thread back in 2005. In time this will provide the air force with a fighter pilot training capability and more importantly, an operational light strike capability to deal with an insurgency and/or terrorist threats.

Three, the US Ambassador to the Philippines Philip Goldberg confirmed that the Philippine Air Force will acquire 2 used C-130T Hercules aircraft and these pre-owned birds will arrive in the 1st quarter of 2016. in this respect, the US has provided targeted assistance to their ally, to improve their ability to move troops and materials more quickly, should the need arise to deal with humanitarian disasters, insurgency and/or terrorist threats - for details see my prior 2013 three part post on Crisis at Zamboanga City (see: Philippines to Re-Focus on Territorial Defence in 2012). According to David Kilcullen, the future environment will be urban, littoral, and connected. The data suggest that this is the environment in which future conflict will occur. This is not a futuristic prediction, but rather a projection of trends that are evident now, and an assessment of their effects on cities as they exist today. The future is hybrid and irregular conflict combining elements of crime, urban unrest, insurgency, terrorism, and state-sponsored asymmetric warfare — more Mumbai in India, Mogadishu in Somalia, Zamboanga in Philippines, and Tivoli Gardens in Jamaica. Terrorism activities in the Philippines have doubled in 2013. According to GMA News, the Global Terrorism Index Report for 2014 showed, ranking the country the 9th most at risk of becoming less peaceful. The country's ranking went up from 10th place in 2012.

In addition, B.S. Aquino III confirmed that 30 projects for the modernization of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) were signed.These includes items under Horizon 1 (2013-2017) phase of the Revised AFP Modernization Program (RAFPMP) under Republic Act 10349, and some of these were projects under the AFP Modernization Program (AFPMP) covered by Republic Act 7898. However, presidential elections are coming and it is necessary to speed-up the release of budget to avoid these becoming mid-night projects that the next administration may not honour. There is a Philippine centric blog with a longer and more detailed discussion on this topic, here.

Note: Can't post links yet, otherwise I'd link to this article.
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Blackshoe

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
They said talks within the Japanese government were preliminary and would need to overcome legal hurdles. Japan had yet to formally propose the planes as an alternative to more sophisticated Lockheed Martin P3-C aircraft that Manila wants to track Chinese submarine activity, they added."
I believe I've said on here before that there should be a lot of P-3s coming up on the market relatively shortly, so there may still be hope to get some for the AFP.

Granted, some of them will be very high-mileage, but...

Also, the world market seems to be shifting towards more of the intermediate two-engine designs (eg the CASA 235) than the biggies. In that case, they still may be able to buy a bunch of P-3s and strip the electronics out of them for mounting on (in other words, buy planes for stripping out only the kit), provided the US would go for it.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Manila eyes Gripen for future fighter force

Seems present Administration of Philippines inched closer to pick Gripen (C/D version from what I read on their forums).
Hope they can concluded the deal since despite some Philippines forumers and Media keep saying that it's inferior choice to F-16..but the deal that SAAB given from what I read is good one.

SAAB will provide infrastuctures and full training and maintenance support. Also C/D version used same engine as their FA-50, which will smooth their learning curve on maintenance and support for Fast Jets.. something that already been neglecting by Philippines governments before.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
On 28 Dec 2018, Philippine Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana, called for a review of the agreement, saying the Philippines should decide whether to “maintain it, strengthen it, or scrap it.” Lorenzana seemed to suggest that the third of those options may be best. Lorenzana’s statements parallel comments President Duterte made during a visit to China in October 2016. “The foreign policy gears now towards here,” he said in Beijing. “No more American interference. No more American [military] exercises. … China has been a friend of the Philippines, and the roots of our bonds are very deep and not easily severed. Even as we arrive in Beijing, close to winter, this is a springtime of our relationship” (see: US-Philippine defense tensions weaken regional security - AEI). The US should be investigating whether Philippine skepticism of the treaty is predominantly a product of Duterte’s anti-American animus or reflective of a broader shift. If there is a broader movement at work — Washington will have to begin grappling with the prospect of a slow unwinding of the alliance with Manila.

Japan has lent its political support to Vietnam and the Philippines, has proposed to participate in surveillance patrols in the area, has provided a patrol vessel to Vietnam and will likewise help the Philippines in various ways. Various news reports provide further evidence of Japanese moves to counter China's moves in the region.

In 2018, the Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte announced that the Kingdom of Jordan is donating 2 Cobra attack helicopters. The attack helicopters are expected to be transferred in late 2019. National Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana also confirmed in January 2019 to state-run news agency PNA that Philippines will acquire the SPYDER (Surface-to-air PYthon and DERby) air defense system developed by Israeli Rafael Advanced Defense Systems.

Due to delays by the Philippine government in the release of the initial payment as indicated in the contract, the delivery of the first batch of Hermes 450 did not push through last August 2018 as planned. MaxDefense reports that it is now expected that the first batch of Hermes 450 UAVs will be delivered to the PAF by May 2019. It appears that the delays has allowed Elbit to also push through with the delivery of a second Hermes 450 UAV, which is a new-build unit, allowing for the delivery of two units instead of just one.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Manila eyes Gripen for future fighter force

Seems present Administration of Philippines inched closer to pick Gripen (C/D version from what I read on their forums).
Hope they can concluded the deal since despite some Philippines forumers and Media keep saying that it's inferior choice to F-16..but the deal that SAAB given from what I read is good one.

SAAB will provide infrastuctures and full training and maintenance support. Also C/D version used same engine as their FA-50, which will smooth their learning curve on maintenance and support for Fast Jets.. something that already been neglecting by Philippines governments before.
No final decision has been made thus far but I believe the Pinoys are increasingly looking at acquiring F-16s (as 14 used F-16s are also being offered by the US government along with training arrangements for the Pinoys to enhance the offer). In July 2019, the US Air National Guard’s 113th Wing hosted a Philippine Air Force delegation visit to Joint Base Andrews. During this visit, the delegation was able to tour the F-16 facilities and experience an F-16 familiarization flight. This visit follows the Bilateral Air Contingent Exchange- Philippines, deployment earlier in Feb 2019.

In other news, one of the six ordered A-29 Super Tucano aircraft for the Philippine Air Force (PAF) ordered in 2017 from Brazil-based aircraft manufacturer Embraer has taken its first flight — a picture of which was uploaded by Leonardo G. Santana in his Instagram account. Philippines has said that the delivery of 6 ordered Super Tucanos will start February 2020.

I really can’t understand why the Pinoys would place an order for only 6 A-29s, when the minimum order for the 1st batch of A-29s should be 12 to 16 aircraft (to replace the OV-10 Bronco), with a good local stockpile of spares to ensure that they raise, train and sustain the force, which is ideal for use against the various local insurgent groups.

Chile, for example, operates 18 A-29s (12 first batch in 2008 and 6 second batch in 2018). For background, I note that the US Department of Defense (DoD) has extended a so-called indefinite-delivery/indefinite quantity contract with Embraer/Sierra Nevada Corporation for the delivery of A-29 Super Tucano light attack aircraft, the US DoD announced on 4 September 2019. The US DoD states that the new US$1.808 billion indefinite-delivery/indefinite quantity contract, will be extended from August 2019 to December 2024. Thus far, the Pentagon has ordered 26 A-29 Super Tucano aircraft for the Afghan Air Force with 22 A-29s delivered. The USAF Special Operations Command at Hurlburt Field, Fla., will also use A-29s to “develop an instructor pilot program for the Combat Aviation Advisory mission, to meet increased partner nation requests for light attack assistance.” “Our focus is on how a light attack aircraft can help our allies and partners as they confront violent extremism and conduct operations within their borders,” US Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein said in the statement.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
No final decision has been made thus far but I believe the Pinoys are increasingly looking at acquiring F-16s (as 14 used F-16s are also being offered by the US government along with training arrangements for the Pinoys to enhance the offer). See: Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (Horizon 2) Acquisition Project of the Philippine Air Force ~ MaxDefense Philippines
I look again on this thread, and found my post from 2013 (basically 6 years ago) on the talk of Gripen for PAF. I also remember from Pinoy Media and Forums (including Max Defense) and their aspirations several years ago to get 2nd hand F-16 deal like US Obama Administration give to Indonesia.

However when they realize that deal include USD 750 mio to upgrade and make those 2nd hand F-16 operational again, then seems they were bit tone down on that.
So Max Defense seems shown that Philippines DOD now already look for either Gripen C/D or F-16V. Either way, hopefully they are can get to decisions soon enough, since the proses already run for sometime.

In the end I believe it will be back to what Financing package that SAAB or LM can offer. I usually complaining on how Indonesian MinDef track record on implementating their procurement process especially under current administration, but compared to Philippines DoD process, it's still like express line.
 
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