Philippine Air Force Discussions and Updates

[Ananda]

PAF recommends acquisition of 12 more S. Korean-made jet fighters | Philippine News Agency

MANILA – A proposal to acquire an additional 12 South Korean-made FA-50 jet fighters was submitted to the Department of National Defense (DND) in a bid to enhance the country's defense capabilities. In an interview Wednesday, Philippine Air Force (PAF) spokesperson Col. Ma. Consuelo Castillo…

www.pna.gov.ph

PAF did submit additional 12 or another sq of FA-50. I suspect they submitted before 'accident' and now grounding of remaining current 11 FA-50. Still this submission seems confirm talk on Pinoy forums and media on the plan 40 Fighters will be divided between 1 sq of LCA and 2 sq of MRCA.

If current submission and latest incident also potential MRCA preferences not changing the trend, seems it could point to 2 sq Grippen and 2 sq of FA-50.

 

[Ananda]

DSCA site on 1st of April yesterday. Seems legit enough, hope is not April Fools.

Philippines – F-16 Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

Either way, it is getting interesting between SAAB offer vs LM offer. This is come also when SAAB traction for MRCA seems getting momentum with Pinoy AF. Still in the end politics will come to play'.

 

[downunderblue]

At least they have dual use and can hit the DU30 family compound in Davao if needed ... More impactful than an F5 staffing run over Aguinaldo and EDSA

I joke, but the greatest threat of insecurity affecting Philippine society is from internal elements, whether NPA, private armed groups or people waving green or black flags. It always has been and will likely continue being that way into the future.

"The U.S. State Department has approved the potential sale of 20 F-16C/D Block 70/72 fighters to the Philippines, the latest turn in a long-running saga as Manila seeks to revamp its air force".

Sale Of Advanced F-16s To The Philippines Moves Forward Amid Deepening U.S. Ties

New F-16s with advanced sensors for the Philippines keep with the tightening relationship between Washington and Manila as China's power grows. New F-16s with advanced sensors for the Philippines keep with the tightening relationship between Washington and Manila as China's power grows.

www.twz.com

 

[Ananda]

I believe for Insurgency Philippines AF just like Indonesia AF use dedicated COIN. Both use OV-10 before and now Super Tucano (or in case on PAF, they begin integrating Super Tucano for COIN duties). The accident on FA-50 that downed after being used on Counter Insurgency operation shown how FA-50 or F-5 before it is not really suitable for COIN duties.

MRCA whether F-16V or Griped E/F (NG) will bring something that PAF has no equivalent before. F-5 basically being replaced by FA-50 and MRCA really being use and targeted as Air Defense agains External Incursion.

 

[tonnyc]

A bit late, but with regard to the FA-50 crash, my belief is that PAF was forced to use the FA-50 at that time because they don't have enough Super Tucano.

The FA-50 was dispatched from an airbase near Cebu, about 420 km northward from the army unit requesting air support. We don't know this unit's exact location, so I'm giving it a bit of a fudge factor. While I don't know the exact disposition of PAF's Super Tucanos, there are usually a few stationed in Zamboanga. But that's about 550 km away to the west. It will be faster to dispatch the FA-50 with their higher speed from Cebu than to dispatch the Super Tucano from Zamboanga.

Ideally the air support should have been dispatched from Lumbia Airfield near Cagayan del Oro that's only about 100 km northwest from the conflict area, but as far as I can tell, on that day there was no Super Tucano there. This puzzled me a bit, as the PAF undoubtedly knew that some sort of army operation was happening, since normally the FA-50s are based near Manila, so their presence in Cebu near midnight suggested a forward deployment, but in that case, why not pre-position some of the Super Tucanos in Lumbia? I can only conclude that the Super Tucanos at Zamboanga were not ready for combat ops that night.

I also figured that there was nothing wrong with the FA-50 that crashed. Again, this is inference, but the 5th Fighter Wing announced night flight training a few days before PAF officially ungrounded the FA-50. The training notice was on Facebook, and Facebook is notoriously hard to search and link so sorry I can't link it, but basically the 5th Fighter Wing sent a notice to the locals that if they hear jets flying at night, do not be alarmed, that's them training, also, do not fly any kites, balloons, or drones without permission. This suggests that the Philippine Air Force investigation team did not find any sign of equipment failure and the 5th Fighter Wing was informally notified of this before the investigation was formally concluded.

There is a plan to buy more Super Tucano, but as usual for the Philippines, there is a long delay between planning and execution. We can find news article dating back to 2021 saying the Philippine Air Force planned on getting more Super Tucano.

 

[Ananda]

Philippines Pursues Landmark F-16 fighter jets Deal with U.S. Amid Rising Indo-Pacific Tensions

The Philippines is entering a critical phase in its decades-long struggle to modernize its military, as the government of President Ferdinand Marcos Jr. intensifies negotiations with the United States for the potential acquisition of 20 brand-new F-16 fighter jets, valued at US$5.58 billion...

theasialive.com

When they already talk financing scheme, ussualy it is getting serious in procurement stage.

 

[downunderblue]

I believe for Insurgency Philippines AF just like Indonesia AF use dedicated COIN. Both use OV-10 before and now Super Tucano (or in case on PAF, they begin integrating Super Tucano for COIN duties). The accident on FA-50 that downed after being used on Counter Insurgency operation shown how FA-50 or F-5 before it is not really suitable for COIN duties.

Hey Ananda. I read this post and noted you're Indonesian based. My first question from reading the above was why would Indonesia need COIN aircraft in the first place? My natural answer to my own question was for contingency risk outside of Java but my mind quickly got thinking. Are you aware of any operation history of the Super Tucano in the COIN role whilst in Indonesian service?

I would haver thought they came close on many occasions around Western New Guinea, the Celebes Sea and/or maybe Aceh but that POLRI or TNI-AD contained the situation without needing support?

I've spent a lot of time in Indoesia and it fascinates me (as does the region) but wondered if I've missed anything. I know PH well in comparison and the countries are very different given the threat level, the use of the AFP in domestic security and the lower threshold for use of kinetic force (thus why they definitely need COIN aircraft), but again I thought I'd ask a local and see if you're aware of any history that I am not.

Cheers/ thx.

 

[Ananda]

Are you aware of any operation history of the Super Tucano in the COIN role whilst in Indonesian service?

Indonesia and Philippines OV-10 both have very active life. Philippines for handling Moro and Communist insurgency, and Indonesia use it mostly for Aceh and East Timor insurgency. However for Super Tucano at least in Indonesian service, so far has not been used to handle insurgency. While Pinoy Super Tucano still relatively new, and perhaps not really ready for operational tempo yet.

This because the only "insurgency" left in Indonesia now mostly in remote Papua Mountains region, and far more lighter then Aceh and East Timor insurgency. Just like you put mostly can be handle by POLRI and TNI-AD ground operation. The only air support they need are transport helicopters and drones for surveillance.

Thus from what I gather, they are being use as complementary FLIT role in similar way TA-50 being used. I read somewhere on TNI-AU report that asside as LCA role, all young fighter pilots graduate has to build their flight hours before being transfer to Hawk 200, F-16 and Flankers. As Turboprop they also being use on border patrol like in Borneo to monitor potential wood logs smuggling in Malaysian border.

Years ago in Indonesian AF thread, I do some ranting episodes in questioning the need for COIN fighters after OV-10 being retired. Seems they are now being used mostly as transitional Fighter before the pilots move on to fast jets.

 

[downunderblue]

This because the only "insurgency" left in Indonesia now mostly in remote Papua Mountains region, and far more lighter then Aceh and East Timor insurgency. Just like you put mostly can be handle by POLRI and TNI-AD ground operation. The only air support they need are transport helicopters and drones for surveillance.

Appreciate the reply.

Re the Super Tucano in AFP use, they have been used post Marawi and saw one reference to use north west of General Santos, which is just north of your North Sulawesi off the Celebes Sea.

One wonders whether many of the lower intensity COIN missions could be better handled by UAV's. There are some plus and minus' there but cost would be one of them.

Are you happy with the selection of Rafale and potentially the F-15EX's? From a logistical and training POV, operating four different fast jet designs does seem a little challenging? I get the want to both diversify from a single supplier as well as technology transfer promoting local industry but surely they must be pain to train, maintain and support so many platforms.

I know Probowo was heavily involved with both new deals but one wonders why he didn't approach China to tender? From inauguration he seemed pretty keen to develop the relationship which makes me question why he didn't go there?

Thanks

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesia and Philippines OV-10 both have very active life. Philippines for handling Moro and Communist insurgency, and Indonesia use it mostly for Aceh and East Timor insurgency. However for Super Tucano at least in Indonesian service, so far has not been used to handle insurgency. While Pinoy Super Tucano still relatively new, and perhaps not really ready for operational tempo yet.

This because the only "insurgency" left in Indonesia now mostly in remote Papua Mountains region, and far more lighter then Aceh and East Timor insurgency. Just like you put mostly can be handle by POLRI and TNI-AD ground operation. The only air support they need are transport helicopters and drones for surveillance.

Thus from what I gather, they are being use as complementary FLIT role in similar way TA-50 being used. I read somewhere on TNI-AU report that asside as LCA role, all young fighter pilots graduate has to build their flight hours before being transfer to Hawk 200, F-16 and Flankers. As Turboprop they also being use on border patrol like in Borneo to monitor potential wood logs smuggling in Malaysian border.

Years ago in Indonesian AF thread, I do some ranting episodes in questioning the need for COIN fighters after OV-10 being retired. Seems they are now being used mostly as transitional Fighter before the pilots move on to fast jets.

With other words, the acquisition of the EMB-314 instead of more KT-1Bs was a mistake.
More AH-64E, Mi-35P or armed NBell 412, NBO-105 or AS555 and UAVs are maybe better suitable for fighting OPM-terrorists.