Pakistan Navy (PN) News, Updates & Discussions

[Sea Toby]

As far as i know the biggest problem with the type 21s is not the weaponry but the superstucture itself.
i think the pakisan navy is better off without the type 21

The British built the Type 21s more ASW than AAW at a time when SSMs were being introduced worldwide. CIWS was added, but the SAMs are a bit dated and not up to todays SSMs/ASMs. The FFGs were designed for ASW missions as well, used to have a area defence AAW capabillity which is dated today. If I were to upgrade the FFGs I would add an up to date state of the art self defence AAW capability with either RAM or SeaRam... and forgo the dated area defence AAW capability...

The FFGs 76-mm main gun is okay, and their ASW sonar/torpedo tubes/helicopter capability is still awesome. Add harpoons or another SSM such as C-802 forward of the bridge in racks and either RAM or SeaRam would update these used ships nicely...

When the US built the FFGs, they were facing a significant Soviet bomher threat over the Atlantic and an area defence AAW was welcomed. Today Pakistan really doesn't face an enemy long range bomber threat. A better self defence short range SAM excellent against aircraft and missiles would be better today...

 

[hassan1]

PAK NAVY HAWKER 850XP

 

[SURB]

PN getting two missile boats from China.These will be under ToT.One is to be manufactured in China while the second one in Karachi ship yard.
Type is yet not confirmed.But by the looks of it ,it can be the adavnce stealth option PN is going for , I mean the Houbei class (Type 022).
Or it can the Type 037-II if we see the tender released for acquiring the new boats.

 

[tphuang]

PN getting two missile boats from China.These will be under ToT.One is to be manufactured in China while the second one in Karachi ship yard.
Type is yet not confirmed.But by the looks of it ,it can be the adavnce stealth option PN is going for , I mean the Houbei class (Type 022).
Or it can the Type 037-II if we see the tender released for acquiring the new boats.

haven't seen the report on this, but i'd think it would be something entirely different designed for the export market. At this point, type 037-II maybe too old to fit PN's requirements. They are cheap though.

 

[SURB]

haven't seen the report on this, but i'd think it would be something entirely different designed for the export market.

There was a tender released for this it's as under.

The tender was released by Electronic Business Systems of Karachi for the Ministry of Defence Production. The invitation to tender (ITT) (No. 1347/209/DGDP/PC-4 dtd 11 Feb 2010 on FOB basis due for opening on 24 March 2010) is for the supply of two 500-ton FAC hulls, fitted for weapons configuration. Responses to the ITT are due by 1500 (local time) on 22 March 2010 if by post, and 1030 (local time) 24 March 2010 if delivered by hand. Opening will occur at 11 (local) on 24 March.
The ITT lists the main characteristics for the FAC as follows:

-Full load displacement of 500-600 tons
-Overall length of 60 meters (196.8ft)
-Radius of action equal to or greater than 500 nautical • miles, max speed 30 knots
-Complement of 55-60 personnel
-And fitted with the following weapon and sensor systems:
-8 Chinese C-802A SSMs
-Two 25mm close range semi-automatic EO/IR AA • guns
-Two 12.7mm machine guns
-Chaff and IR decoys
-Air/Surface search radar with track while scan (TWS) function
-Electro optical director and fire control radars for associated weapons
-Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) System
-Modern C3 System.

And the last month on a Government run News channel i myself listened the deputy chief of Naval staff breaking the news that 2 boats will be purchased and of these one will be build in Karachi shipyard.It's under ToT.(And also that the PLAN will take part in a Naval exercise with PN during the month of March, this year.)

At this point, type 037-II maybe too old to fit PN's requirements. They are cheap though.

If anybody asks me,i'll certainly give the nod to go for Type 022, type 037-II is an old platform as you said and doesn't matches the Type 022 in stealth capabilities either.Everything is so cool about that boat; the design and even some work on the glass pans the RCS reducing saw-tooth edges,it's the best stealth design out there available for PN.

But the thing is tender requirements doesn't match with Type 022 class.They must be thinking something bigger and better range and also one disadvantage that comes to mind is the limited arc of fire by Type 022, and nothing to defend on the back when it's on the run.
Nevertheless it's an excellent option for using swarm tactics.

Other option that comes to mind is Type 037II.
First batch was of 6 Type 037-II FACs (from 770 to 775).
The next one which we are getting was considered to be more formidable and it starts after boat #776.
Modifications are:
New Russian gunmount AK-176,Radar fire control system and defensive armaments.( It was expected that the Type 037-II will be getting FL-2000 SAM system.)
Is there something else that fits in well.(i mean a new machine in the making.)?
Now i'm very hopefull that you will confirm the type for us.

 

[rip]

Pakistan to Acquire US Navy Warship


WASHINGTON: Pakistan and the US have signed a $65 million contract on Tuesday for the ‘hot transfer’ of naval frigate USS McInerney, enabling the Pakistan Navy to take over the vessel by August 31.

The frigate will be commissioned as PNS Alamgir on August 31 in the United States “and a comprehensive refurbishment of the ship, in line with Pakistan Navy’s requirements, will be undertaken under the supervision of US Navy”.

Upon completion of its refurbishment work by January 2011, the PNS Alamgir will then sail to Pakistan to join the Pakistan naval fleet. At Tuesday’s ceremony, officials from Pakistan Navy and the Pakistan embassy in Washington represented Pakistan, while senior ranking US Navy officials represented the US government.

Pakistani embassy officials described the occasion, as “a major “milestone” towards strengthening the wide-ranging Pakistan-US relationship”. APP

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

It would be nice to know to what requirements will it be refurbished...?

I am sure that the communication suite will be heavy revamped. Communication suites, crypto, commonly used frequencies, and signal types are generally very specific to each country’s navy unless they are intended to work in concert with foreign allies.

 

[KiwiRob]

appears to be a waste of money to me, a 30+ year old ship can't have much life left in it.

 

[rip]

appears to be a waste of money to me, a 30+ year old ship can't have much life left in it.

Depends how badly you think you need it.

 

[SURB]

Exercise " AMAN 11"is scheduled to be conducted in North Arabian Sea from 8-17 March 2011. Navies of 47 countries have been invited to participate. This is the third exercise of AMAN series. AMAN is an Urdu word meaning "PEACE".

View attachment 4445

Never seen the submarine fleet of PN taking part in any of the joint/international exercises.

Isn't that odd.:unknown

 

[AegisFC]

PNS Alamgir was damaged while beginning sea trials.

Frigate, Pier Damaged At Drydock - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville

No idea of the official damage but this was posted by one of the yard workers present at a blog I frequent.

While doing dock trials in preparation for next week's sea trials, someone engaged the shaft clutch.

The ship then pulled against the Kevlar reinforced lifelines until they snapped. The ship shot towards the head of the pier (about 100 ft) and hit so hard that it rode up the pier, striking a large crane with the bullnose.

How much it will cost to fix the damage or even if it is worth fixing will depend on the shape of the sonar dome.

 

[Sea Toby]

appears to be a waste of money to me, a 30+ year old ship can't have much life left in it.

While the first ship may be 30 years in age, many of the other ships being hot transferred are in the 25 years in age range... Considering all of the ships will be significantly overhauled before getting to Pakistan, there is a very good chance Pakistan will see at least 10 years and possibly more out of these ships.

And since these ships are being transferred and overhauled by US financial aid, these ships aren't costing Pakistan much more than the price to operate and run them...

Currently these ships are without a surface to air and surface to surface missles, which can be easily rectified by upgrading these ships CIWS with SeaRAM missiles and with harpoon missiles and canisters forward of the bridge for a very modest price... Its the upgrade the US Congress declined to fund...

 

[SURB]

Wanted to share some images of Aman 2011 which have started today.
View attachment 4574

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4574&stc=1&d=1299609530

 

[T.C.P]

Just got some news from reliable sources that Pakistan has signed a deal for Chinese Qing class Submarines and has also signed a deal to lease 2 type 054A frigates for 10 years.

Also there might be the possibility of leasing a 091 HAN class nuclear submarine (SSGN) for 10 years.

 

[harryriedl]

Just got some news from reliable sources that Pakistan has signed a deal for Chinese Qing class Submarines and has also signed a deal to lease 2 type 054A frigates for 10 years.

Also there might be the possibility of leasing a 091 HAN class nuclear submarine (SSGN) for 10 years.

Any idea about if it might be a lease to buy option as its usual for a lease not to have that option buy at the end (an example of this not being the case would be India and the Oscar class lease)

 

[SABRE]

Any idea about if it might be a lease to buy option as its usual for a lease not to have that option buy at the end (an example of this not being the case would be India and the Oscar class lease)

I am yet to see a credible news on the type 091 lease. But IF true here are my speculations. I think its just a lease and return deal. The lease of the nuclear submarine may be for training and expertise building. Otherwise Type 091 have not deterrent value. It reportedly never set a deterrent sail for China even. Plus it is said to have lousy radiation protection system.

 

[STURM]

Just got some news from reliable sources that Pakistan has signed a deal for Chinese Qing class Submarines and has also signed a deal to lease 2 type 054A frigates for 10 years.

Would like to get some objective opinions if possible .

It can be argued that given India's much larger coastline and area that has to be covered by the IN and the need keep pace with future PLAN activity in the Indian Ocean, it has a compelling need for SSNs. Can the same be said of Pakistan or will any futute SSN to be operated by the PN be solely in response to India?

 

[T.C.P]

Would like to get some objective opinions if possible .

It can be argued that given India's much larger coastline and area that has to be covered by the IN and the need keep pace with future PLAN activity in the Indian Ocean, it has a compelling need for SSNs. Can the same be said of Pakistan or will any futute SSN to be operated by the PN be solely in response to India?

I think this is Pakistan's response to India, the status of the Pakistani sub fleet is better than that of India's, and will remain so for some years to come, due to India's failure to procure enough new subs to replace the aging ones.

The only area where India had an upper hand in the subs war they were getting SSns, the Nerpa and their Indigenous built one, the Pakistani Nuke sub lease is probably a response to that.

Note- no solid proof that this lease will take place at all.

 

[STURM]

The only area where India had an upper hand in the subs war they were getting SSns,

Plus the fact that the PN has a larger sub fleet.

Note- no solid proof that this lease will take place at all.

Pakistan would be better off not getting the the SSN game as the cash could be diverted to other areas. Unlike India, Pakistan does need to worry about a more active PLAN operating in the Indian ocean in the future.

 

[T.C.P]

Plus the fact that the PN has a larger sub fleet.



Pakistan would be better off not getting the the SSN game as the cash could be diverted to other areas. Unlike India, Pakistan does need to worry about a more active PLAN operating in the Indian ocean in the future.

True, but the Pakistani military has a history of making decisions for pride rather than proper economic sense.

 

[STURM]

True, but the Pakistani military has a history of making decisions for pride rather than proper economic sense.

There's more to it than just pride, internal politics will play a big part. Pakistan also isn't the only country which introduces a new military capability in response to a neighbour/rival.