Pakistan Navy (PN) News, Updates & Discussions

[corsair7772]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Id prefer if Pakistan go for the Chinese Type 54 frigates (not to be confused with the F-22Ps). These are La Fayaette Knock offs and have a tremendous potential which PLAN isnt currently interested in due to emphasis on submarines. The ships are supposed to carry the navalised SA-10 (which in case you dont know is a damn good SAM system) along with their 6~8 SSMs which are probably C-803s or C-805s. Buying the typre 54s would be a good step towards standardizing our equipment on chinese sources which are secure and ever growing in terms of capability. And lets not forget the cost factor favouring the chinese (if we cant evn come up with $750 million then wed better forget the Type 23s which are gonna be sold on the highest bidder, auction style.)
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/054.asp

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Id prefer if Pakistan go for the Chinese Type 54 frigates (not to be confused with the F-22Ps). These are La Fayaette Knock offs and have a tremendous potential which PLAN isnt currently interested in due to emphasis on submarines.

Not me! The reason why there is a rush for the 23's is that they are a very capable and established known quantity. They were very well regarded in NATO ops.

You never buy vessels that are first of type or without volume history.

 

[corsair7772]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Agreed. But you also never buy vessels which you can hardly pay for. All im sayin is is that if we cant even buy 4 chinese frigates we better forget about buyin european type 23s especially if china and the rest make better offers of payment.

And its my personal belief that capable or not, these frigates wont stand a chance againts an Akula 2 or a Su-30. Theres a hi intensity multiple threat environment in the arabian sea and the Type 23s will be hit by subs, frigates, corvettes and strike aircraft again and again until all thats left are the life boats. The money would be better spent on more missile FACs, SSMs and other defences more well positioned to counter all types of attacks.

 

[adsH]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Agreed. But you also never buy vessels which you can hardly pay for. All im sayin is is that if we cant even buy 4 chinese frigates we better forget about buyin european type 23s especially if china and the rest make better offers of payment.

And its my personal belief that capable or not, these frigates wont stand a chance againts an Akula 2 or a Su-30. Theres a hi intensity multiple threat environment in the arabian sea and the Type 23s will be hit by subs, frigates, corvettes and strike aircraft again and again until all thats left are the life boats. The money would be better spent on more missile FACs, SSMs and other defences more well positioned to counter all types of attacks.

A well organized Force is what you need these Type 23 will provide Surface cover Against Surface Assets and we' shouldn't forget the Anti-Sub capability which it was designed for. the Sea wolf System would be a tremendous Leap forward for Pak Navy. Now if we talk about Datalinks these ships would be upgraded to the Nato Com standards that the P3 C would work onn Link 16, 11 are currently utilized last i checked. I'd Say this is a pritty good Improvement. If India is going to used SU-30 (Which i dout it will against Naval targets), you would have Sea-wolf system (Upgraded) and then again every naval surface vessel is at a disadvantage to a Sub. YOu have Subs too that are Quieter then Akula (GF your better at this). So you have Layered defense systems working in tightly controlled and communicative Environment. i really don't see how The Type 23 would be a waist of Money. and if you can convince the UK that you have market for the vessels. there may be a possibility of Hull design Transfer to Pak Naval Ship building dockyard (we'r not going to build the Type 23 Ever.). Appart from the Highly regarded Hull design that you'll be getting, you will Also have the Added advantage of Acquiring a X amount of capability in a short of time.

I knew the Silicon Solid State gyro's would come inn handy BAE developed the technology about 6 months ago. It's amazing how tinny it is compared to Conventional versions.

The seawolf Block2 are going to have these. Impressive Capability indeed.
The Type 23 will receive the New Block 2 variant.

VL SEAWOLF is the third generation in the SEAWOLF air defence weapon system and is in service in the UK Royal Navy where it is fitted in the Type 23 frigates, with 32 missiles installed in vertical sealed canisters ready for firing. It also equips the Royal Malaysian Navy for the new light frigates built by BAE SYSTEMS.
The UK MoD has recently contracted a further tranche of the Block 2 standard of Seawolf missile and for updates to the ship’s equipments.
The initial version of the SEAWOLF was successfully deployed in the Falklands war (1982).

SEAWOLF was the first operational anti-missile ship defence weapon system. It has proved its efficiency against fast sea skimming and high angle supersonic missiles. Vertical Launch SEAWOLF is a fully automatic, fast reaction, high speed, point defence missile system offering an effective counter to multiple missile attack.
VL SEAWOLF (VL = Vertical Launch) is accurate enough to intercept 4.5 inch (114 mm) shells.

Once the surveillance radar has detected targets, the ship’s command system evaluates them and prioritises the threat. Designated high threat targets are then automatically passed to the Seawolf tracker sub-system which then searches for and locks onto the target. The system automatically decides upon missile launch and guides the SEAWOLF missile up to intercept using highly accurate Command to Line of Sight (CLOS) guidance.
http://www.mbda.net/eseawolf.html


CrossAir Are Yeah telling me you'd Prefer PKNavy to choose a lesser capable weapon system over this. Defense never comes Cheap.

 

[adsH]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

I heard that Pakistan is taking loan from somebody to buy those F-22P Frigates.
Is that true

Yeah they'r procuring using credits i think they are soft loans. The Type 23 will probably be paid from the Assistance package from the US and funded directly by the Governments Procurement allocation funds.

 

[A Khan]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

i might be wrong but isnt the reason why Pakistan is interested in these ships, that the price might be quite low, compared to other such (western) ships? cause they are used, somewhat 10-15 years old and not new-builts. But i would still rate them as high-tech considering the South Asian theatre, and would have them higher on the wish list then the chinese type 54, they are still being tested i think not sure, so dont really know there capabilities.

Does anyone here have an idea of what the price might be for the Type-23 frigates?

 

[highsea]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Does anyone here have an idea of what the price might be for the Type-23 frigates?

This article mentions Chile was talking 250 Million for the three T-23's.

The Chilean Navy already has defined the purchase of three missile Type 23 frigates from the Royal Navy, an operation involving 250 million US dollars, according to Navy commander Admiral Mighe Vergara who would like to see the contract signed before June 18 when he retires.

http://www.falkland-malvinas.com/Detalle.asp?NUM=5762

Belgium is also interested in them,

Three-way race for UK Type 23 frigates

By Richard Scott

Belgium, Chile and Pakistan are vying to acquire three UK Royal Navy (RN) Type 23 frigates being offered for sale overseas as a result of force reductions announced in 2004. All three nations are pursuing negotiations with the UK Ministry of Defence's Disposals Services Agency (DSA), now part of the Defence Logistics Organisation, with a final decision on the ships' sale expected within the next few months.

Chile has long been viewed as the most likely buyer for the Type 23s, having expressed a strong interest in acquiring all three ships being paid off by the RN and being first to the negotiating table. However, while the Chilean Navy has remained keen to pursue an acquisition, government delays in approving funding have seen Belgium and Pakistan enter the fray.

Informed sources have told JNI that the three putative deals all have competing merits according to their immediate sale value, the long-term value to UK industry and the 'defence diplomacy' benefit to the UK government. As a result, it is anticipated that a final decision on the sale will be taken at ministerial level.

http://www.janes.com/business/news/jni/jni050603_1_n.shtml

 

[A Khan]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Thanks for the info Highsea!

Well if its 250 million for 3, about 85 mill pr ship, then its bargain! Now i can better understand why Chile, Belgium and Pakistan are interested in these. Dont think the chinese Type 54 can match this price, considering what Pakistan is paying for the F22P, was it about 750 million for 4, about 180 mill per ship? but thats including TOT, so not a viable comparison. Anyways considering the age, capability, and price, these ships will be very good deal, if they are sold to Pakistan.

If not these 3. then maybe when the next batch is decommisioned then Pakistan could try to buy those, maybe even cheaper

 

[adsH]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

i Think Pak Navy may come up as a front Runner as Pak Navy May turn out to be a Better Larger Customer. Since we're Talking about the Future Growth of UK shipping industry which is already Dying out. Chilean Navy May not have the Capacity to Purchase Larger Amount of Ships that Pak navy would be able to. Pak naval requirements woud certainly Grow as Oil would start pouring out of Balochistan Ports. This will be Purely a Political decision.

 

[A Khan]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Isnt Pakistant focussing on domestic production of naval assets for the future? Thats what i understood. Therefore the F-22P is going to be the backbone, and the subforce: Agosta's. so can't really see what other Big ticket item Pakistan navy could buy from the UK?

But i do hope you are right, adsh, was just doing a bit of reading about stealth and ships on BBC, (old news item) and the Type-23 were mentioned:

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said naval designers have known for a long time that radar signatures depend on the angles involved.

He said: "The trick is to avoid right angles, which reflect radar right back.

"We use a secret angle on our Type 23 frigates which enables our ships to reduce their radar signature to an absolute minimum."

John Fyall, of the Defence Procurement Agency, said: "Our new Type 45 destroyers will use much of this technology to reduce their radar signatures.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7598_1405474,000500020000.htm

The United States and Pakistan navies will conduct weeklong exercises with destroyer ships and submarines in the Arabian Sea starting Tuesday, aimed at strengthening ties and keeping the waters safe for trade, officials said.

More than 700 sailors and officers from both sides will take part, concentrating on "undersea" and "explosive" warfare and deep water exercises, said Capt. Hank Mirander, commander of the U.S. Destroyer Squadron 50.
The exercises, called Inspired Siren, come two months after Pakistani and U.S. troops participated in a joint counterterrorism exercise in northwestern Pakistan _ but Mirander said the navy maneuvers were not specifically geared at combating terrorism.

"These are not directly related to checking the movement of terrorists. The purpose is to practice skills such as communications and try to keep the sea trouble-free for trade and commercial purposes and to strengthen ties as allies," he told a news conference.

The destroyers USS Kauffman and USS Hawes will dock in Karachi. Mirander said it was the first time in seven years that U.S. Navy ships have come to Pakistan's main port on its southern coast.

The city is widely regarded as a hotbed of Islamic militancy. Two Pakistani destroyers, PNS Tariq and PNS Shahjahan, as well as submarines and helicopters, will join the exercise, which ends June 28.

"We are looking forward to a very fruitful exercise. We will be working together to improve our professional skills," said Pakistan's Capt. Azhar Hayat.

Pakistan is a long-standing ally of the United States, and military ties have grown since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on America with Pakistan helping in the fight against al-Qaida and the Taliban along the Afghan border.

But that cooperation remains a sensitive topic in this Islamic country, and American forces do not conduct operations on Pakistani soil.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

http://www.dawn.com/2005/06/21/top11.htm

Pakistan-US naval drill

KARACHI, June 20: Pakistan and United States navies will conduct a joint exercise in the North Arabian Sea from Wednesday, it was announced on Monday by US and Pakistani naval officials. Commodore Hank Miranda of United States Navy and Commodore Azhar Hayat of Pakistan Navy gave details of the exercise to newsmen at a press conference on board USS Kauffman.

The exercise, which will last for 10 days, has been named Inspired Union 2005, a Pakistan Navy statement said.—PPI

 

[mysterious]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

... The city is widely regarded as a hotbed of Islamic militancy. Two Pakistani destroyers, PNS Tariq and PNS Shahjahan, as well as submarines and helicopters, will join the exercise, which ends June 28...

PAF, what is the use of posting stuff from 'hindustantimes' when they put in such provocative lines (read the bold part) in unrelated articles every chance they get? I'm sure, here at DT, no one expects to see material of such irresponsible journalism being made use of. :coffee

 

[P.A.F]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Quote:
Originally Posted by P.A.F
... The city is widely regarded as a hotbed of Islamic militancy. Two Pakistani destroyers, PNS Tariq and PNS Shahjahan, as well as submarines and helicopters, will join the exercise, which ends June 28...



PAF, what is the use of posting stuff from 'hindustantimes' when they put in such provocative lines (read the bold part) in unrelated articles every chance they get? I'm sure, here at DT, no one expects to see material of such irresponsible journalism being made use of. :coffee

Its nice and interesting to see things from different points of view

 

[mysterious]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Yeah but not too often. Anywayz, lets continue discussing thread related material.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

http://english.people.com.cn/200506/25/eng20050625_192283.html

Chile to buy 3 frigates from Britain

printResizeButton();

Chile Defense Minister Jaime Ravinet said Friday the government authorized the purchase of three used British frigates as part of the plan for modernization of the country's armed forces.

The acquisition will be made through a bidding made by Great Britain.

Ravinet, along with new Navy Commander Rodolfo Codina, said the three Type 23 English vessels will come, along with four Dutch frigates in 2006-2007.

The seven frigates plus the ship Admiral Williams, complete the renovation of the national fleet.

The upgrading plan of the fleet includes the purchase of two Scorpene type submarines O'Higgins, which will arrive in Chile later this year, and the Carrera, by mid-2006.

The plan also includes the purchasing of US-made F-16 planes by the air force and Leopard tanks by the army, which has led to criticism by Bolivia and Peru, for fear of a regional arms race.




___________________________________________________________

looks like chile had their hands firmly on these frigates from the start. But whats next for the PN? we can't just settle for the jiangwei II's that china are giving us.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

Yeah I heard about that. At least they'll be going to a good home. I'm sure Chile is extremely chuffed that they got them.

 

[ajay_ijn]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

looks like chile had their hands firmly on these frigates from the start. But whats next for the PN? we can't just settle for the jiangwei II's that china are giving us.

I think missile boats or corvettes are more suitable for Pakistan Navy because they concentrate on coastal defence and Missile Boats are perfect warships for coastal defence.
They could buy those missile boats or either missile corvettes from china or construct them and they can arm them with Harpoon.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

well i think pakistan should try and acquire meko200 frigates,meko100 corvettes and visby missile crafts
any way meko200 even though it is of the same size as the f22p it is ageneration ahead of it (high stealth,excellent seakeaping,lowcost,comparable weapon and sensor systems)
meko200and meko100 have around 70%commonality and are considered to be excellent antisubmarine and anti air warfare missile.
2 meko200(3600 tons)would cost about as much as 1 delhi class destroyer but will be a generation ahead in terms of stealth and sensor technology.
www.naval-technology.com
:coffee

 

[tatra]

Re: New aircraft and frigates will strengthen defence

This article mentions Chile was talking 250 Million for the three T-23's. Belgium is also interested in them,

Sold! To Chili!