Pakistan Navy (PN) News, Updates & Discussions

[Sea Toby]

The second F22P frigate, PNS Shamsheer was commissioned recently in China, and the indigenious build fourth ship's keel has been laid. Now I read this shipbuilding program has been expanded to eight ships from the original four ships. Has this been confirmed by more than one source? Has it been confirmed by an official government source?

I must be getting jaded recently with the free press in my old age, as they have disappointed me so much lately. I don't trust any media news story as being true anymore... Well, not without at least two sources...

 

[tphuang]

I don't think the expanded to eight ships is true. I really can't see something like F-22P fulfill PN's requirements in the long run. Especially with something like 054A proliferating in PLAN and PN's interest in the ship, I think the next 4 would have to be something based on 054A.

 

[hovercraft]

Is Pakistan working on the naval version of cruise missile babar? (there were stories and rumors about it since the first test)Will it be loaded on current subs i mean the agosta 90B or the new subs(u214)?
Will Pakistan need to fit a vertical lauching system (on subs):?for these:and if this happened will it reduce the number of torpedo tubes.

VLS is not necessary for this and few months ago PN indicated that they are able to make second nuke strike from the sea, but no evidence or test done or shown. Its better to read previous posts for your questions.

 

[cheetah]

I don't think the expanded to eight ships is true. I really can't see something like F-22P fulfill PN's requirements in the long run. Especially with something like 054A proliferating in PLAN and PN's interest in the ship, I think the next 4 would have to be something based on 054A.

The chief of Pakistan's naval staff Noman Bashir said he looks forward to see more cooperation in the submarine field between China and his country yesterday during a press interview in the Pakistani embassy in Beijing. The visiting navy chief already met with Chinese Defense Minister Liang Guanglie in Beijing on Friday last week, according to Xinhua News Agency.

In addition to submarines, the admiral told China Daily yesterday that he has talked to Chinese officials buying bigger ships than the current F22P frigates. Pakistan ordered the F22P frigates from China in 2005 and the first one began sea trials last year. According an earlier story on the website of the People's Daily, Pakistan ordered four more F22P frigates in 2007, which means there will eventually be eight such warships in the Pakistani Navy

"The F22P frigate is about 3,000 tons, and now we are talking about 4,000-ton ships. .These are very big projects and we think the cooperation is important for both countries, especially Pakistan." Bashir highly praised the Chinese military technology, saying he's happy to say that China is keeping pace with the changing world and efficiently adopting new technologies.

He said the warships are of the latest technology, and have the all-round capability to target surface ships, aircraft and submarine. "The F22P frigate can be deployed to complete multitasks. The ship is balanced for offense and defense, and can be used in both peace and war time, if there is a war." The first of the four F22P frigates ordered by Pakistan was delivered in July this year and is already in service.

The admiral stressed that this was his third visit to China this year because Pakistan attaches great importance to its cooperation with China not only on naval matters but in other fields. He said the F22P and JF-17 Thunder fighter plane are the two major projects in addition to other projects including development of ammunition, design, equipment and weapons.

The admiral said his country plans to buy more weapons from China in the future, such as bigger ships and missiles.Zhai Dequan, deputy director of China Arms Control and Disarmament Association said that Pakistan's proposal in submarine cooperation is likely aimed at its sea border protection.

"The initiative may invite concerns from its neighboring countries. But the doubts are unnecessary." Zhai said it is normal for an independent country such as Pakistan to actively seek military defense, and meanwhile India also has large projects with the US and Russia. "India's aircraft carrier has already cost it billions of US dollars." He added.


http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/2009/12/pakistans-navy-interested-in-chinese.html
China Daily

 

[hovercraft]

I really think that due to low budget and requirements of subs push PN to more Four F-22Ps with five Chinese built subs, rather then four 054As.
And F-22P will goes more better in air defence, but four 054A with 5 subs is really good deal, only time will tells us what is going on.

 

[BilalK]

A frigate in the class of 2500~3000 tons displacement would serve as an excellent general purpose combatant in the PN, but the F-22P is too limited for long-term benefit. Instead of additional F-22P, the PN should invest in something like the Turkish TF-100 or South Korean FFX, or design something new with China.

 

[Naseer hussain]

hello every body, can anyone tell me about Progress on U-214 for Pakistan Navy.

 

[SURB]

hello every body, can anyone tell me about Progress on U-214 for Pakistan Navy.

There is a particular forum for U214 for pakistan navy,here is the link for it
:idea2
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy-maritime/pakistan-navy-will-buy-u-214-a-8438-3/
You can read further here.

 

[Sea Toby]

A frigate in the class of 2500~3000 tons displacement would serve as an excellent general purpose combatant in the PN, but the F-22P is too limited for long-term benefit. Instead of additional F-22P, the PN should invest in something like the Turkish TF-100 or South Korean FFX, or design something new with China.

I disagree. I think an additional four more F-22Ps would be an excellent choice for surface ships. They are general purpose frigates well equipped to keep their ports open and to convoy merchant vessels.

At a later date a few, two or three larger destroyers could provide better area air defence for a surface action group. Better yet would be an enlarged submarine force for attacking missions.

 

[BilalK]

I disagree. I think an additional four more F-22Ps would be an excellent choice for surface ships. They are general purpose frigates well equipped to keep their ports open and to convoy merchant vessels.

At a later date a few, two or three larger destroyers could provide better area air defence for a surface action group. Better yet would be an enlarged submarine force for attacking missions.

They are good ships, but they're still heavily upgraded and modified Type-053H3s. The air defence capability of these ships will be limited in comparison to newer frigates in its class, such as the TF-100 and FFX. Given that the PN is poised to acquire MILGEM corvettes from Turkey, I can't help but feel that it would be better to invest in developing an enlarged MILGEM, as opposed to acquiring additional F-22P.

 

[Sea Toby]

Doesn't the Pakistan Air Force provide a squadron of aircraft to the navy for maritime air defense sufficient to patrol the skies above Pakistan's ports and sea routes west to the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea? The F22Ps have sufficient air defense to protect themselves from occasional enemy aircraft and probably kill any occasional enemy aircraft attacking any coastal merchant convoy.

Pakistan's surface navy is a defensive navy for its home seas. Its not a surface navy that will attack the enemy in its home ports or seas. This is where the submarine force enters the picture...

First define mission. Then supply and support the navy to do its mission.... Pakistan will never have a surface fleet capable of winning a sea battle at sea with the Indian fleet.... unless in home waters under land based maritime aircraft....

Think in terms of the Russian-Japanese war before WWI. The Japanese waited in their home waters for the Russian fleet to arrive from Europe. Pakistan needs to do the same.

 

[aaaditya]

Doesn't the Pakistan Air Force provide a squadron of aircraft to the navy for maritime air defense sufficient to patrol the skies above Pakistan's ports and sea routes west to the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea? The F22Ps have sufficient air defense to protect themselves from occasional enemy aircraft and probably kill any occasional enemy aircraft attacking any coastal merchant convoy.

Pakistan's surface navy is a defensive navy for its home seas. Its not a surface navy that will attack the enemy in its home ports or seas. This is where the submarine force enters the picture...

First define mission. Then supply and support the navy to do its mission.... Pakistan will never have a surface fleet capable of winning a sea battle at sea with the Indian fleet.... unless in home waters under land based maritime aircraft....

Think in terms of the Russian-Japanese war before WWI. The Japanese waited in their home waters for the Russian fleet to arrive from Europe. Pakistan needs to do the same.

i dont think pakistan's perceived enemy ,indian navy will be arriving all the way from europe.
during world war-2 the war ship technology did not have the level of automation of the current warship technology,thus contributing to the russian crew's fatigue as they had to brave varoiu hurdles to make their journay to battle thus reducing their combat effictiveness.

the russo-japanese war example will not work in case of a regional war between india and pakistan as was shown by the 1972 war.

pakistan navy will have to be pro-active in the earlier stages of the war to make a meaningfull contributions ,if they have learnt their lessons from 1972.

however i do not think that they have the assets(except for their submarines) to achieve this ,and f-22p is definitely underarmed and not suited for this role .

pakistan can definitely think of covert operations by their special forces,as seen from the mumbai taj terror strikes,but that incident has given a boost to the indian navy and coast gurd preparations.

the only option remaining according to me would be a pre-amptive strike to throw indian navy offgaurd (with their submarines,as they do not have any surface assets capable for such a role),followed by coastal defence with all their assets to counter a strike from their enemy and hold them off as long as possible.

 

[dragonfire]

Pakistan's surface navy is a defensive navy for its home seas. Its not a surface navy that will attack the enemy in its home ports or seas.

Think in terms of the Russian-Japanese war before WWI. The Japanese waited in their home waters for the Russian fleet to arrive from Europe. Pakistan needs to do the same.

i dont think pakistan's perceived enemy ,indian navy will be arriving all the way from europe.
during world war-2 the war ship technology did not have the level of automation of the current warship technology,thus contributing to the russian crew's fatigue as they had to brave varoiu hurdles to make their journay to battle thus reducing their combat effictiveness.

the russo-japanese war example will not work in case of a regional war between india and pakistan as was shown by the 1972 war.

I guess i am agreeing to both of you - Sea Toby is right in that PN is defensive in nature as far as the surface fleet is concerned unlike the PAF or the PA. However Aditya is right in his assesment of the wait-for-the-enemey-to-come-to-you strategy ala the Rssian-Jap naval war as Sea Toby mentions, it wouldnt work as the Logistics for the IN assets wouldnt be an issue even on a full-on blocade of Karachi and other ports.

However if the PN adopts out-of-the-box strategies and catch the IN offguard or with surprise tactics then it could be a different story

 

[kay_man]

However if the PN adopts out-of-the-box strategies and catch the IN offguard or with surprise tactics then it could be a different story

this is highly unlikely.
the surface fleet is quite obsolete...apart from the new f-22 p frigate........and even if you consider the all suface vessels ...the IN still outnumbers them.

the submarine arm of PN is another story altogeather.........a real threat.
outcome of a navl conflict would highly depend on the effective use of the submarine arm by the PN not the surface fleet.

 

[funtz]

The Ocean is a big place, requires a lot of assets just to have a limited view of the area in question, and then there is the subsurface ocean.

With the extremly limited number of Submarines in service with PN (and also IN) it does not seem likely that they will sink any fleets (its unlikely that all of the limited numbers will be available at a single time especially for IN), perhaps as tools to deny access?

 

[dragonfire]

The Ocean is a big place, requires a lot of assets just to have a limited view of the area in question, and then there is the subsurface ocean.

With the extremly limited number of Submarines in service with PN (and also IN) it does not seem likely that they will sink any fleets (its unlikely that all of the limited numbers will be available at a single time especially for IN), perhaps as tools to deny access?

The 290 km range of the Brahmos to be inducted by the IAF would be a game changer in this respect. Any large scale Naval engagement (like a blocade) by either navies near the coast of Pakistan would see the usage of Naval fighters of PN and IAF and PAF fighters and maybe also the Aircraft carrier based fighters of the IN, this is unlike the previous battles of the IN and PN

 

[OPSSG]

The 290 km range of the Brahmos to be inducted by the IAF would be a game changer in this respect. Any large scale Naval engagement (like a blocade) by either navies near the coast of Pakistan would see the usage of Naval fighters of PN and IAF and PAF fighters and maybe also the Aircraft carrier based fighters of the IN, this is unlike the previous battles of the IN and PN

Brahmos is impressive tech but I just don't know if India can succeed in a port blockade like what was done in 1971 by Vice Admiral Kohli at Karachi ... You'll have to elaborate and can't assume that what worked will work again. This is because the opposition will always have specific plans to counter to prevent such an event from happening again. I'm sure the professionals at both sides have war gamed various scenarios, where certain actions begets reaction.

Anyway, this is a Pakistani Navy thread, so remember to be respectful and play nice.

 

[dragonfire]

You'll have to elaborate and can't assume that what worked will work again. This is because the opposition will always have specific plans to counter to prevent such an event from happening again. I'm sure the professionals at both sides have war gamed various scenarios, where certain actions begets reaction.

Anyway, this is a Pakistani Navy thread, so remember to be respectful and play nice.

Dude I am not elaborating any war scenario, am just mentioning that the Air Power of both nations will come into play in a near-the-coast of Pakistan naval conflict esp near karachi as the PN has shore based Naval fighter assets, which is a new dimension unlike in the past

I am not prejudiced against Pakistan or its citizens, infact i have had some Pakistani friends. Pls refer my posts above it is objective enough aint it

 

[Sea Toby]

Dude I am not elaborating any war scenario, am just mentioning that the Air Power of both nations will come into play in a near-the-coast of Pakistan naval conflict esp near karachi as the PN has shore based Naval fighter assets, which is a new dimension unlike in the past

I am not prejudiced against Pakistan or its citizens, infact i have had some Pakistani friends. Pls refer my posts above it is objective enough aint it

The maritime fighter forces of Pakistan will have a longer reach as well when supported by air force tanker aircraft.... Well, that probably goes for both sides....

 

[aaaditya]

The maritime fighter forces of Pakistan will have a longer reach as well when supported by air force tanker aircraft.... Well, that probably goes for both sides....

hey buudy can you give me some information about how many maritime strike capable aircrafts does pakistan have in its arsenal? including fighters,helicopters,maritime patrol aircrafts and auxilliary aircrafts,would be helpfull in comparing the assets of both the countries.their payload capability,range and intended role in the event of a naval combat.