Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
Well, we can't have you being confused adsH, Your wish is my command.
PAF to get ERIEYE/AEW/AWACS from Sweden
- Thread starter fieldmarshal
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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
The comment was about a stop gap in the emerging ORBAT. The ref to stop gapping is that Pakistan out of necessity is likely to rebuild some of these into fly away condition as well. Boneyarding planes is a common practice.
Aust did the same with the F-111G's. Originally they were supposed to be spares, that soon changed to getting them into useable condition as the planes we identified as useful had substantial flyaway life left. I have no doubt that the Mirages selected will also go through a boneyard process.
As it currently stands, my comments on Gripen availability appear to be prescient. If that continues to be the case, then boneyarding the Mirages will be even more of an issue while JF-17's are introduced. 8 x JF-17's per year will be a slow introduction and backfill will be critical if the PAF intends to continue to play the absolute numbers game.
Just catching up on some lost response traffic - so this is a bit late.fieldmarshal said:
The comment was about a stop gap in the emerging ORBAT. The ref to stop gapping is that Pakistan out of necessity is likely to rebuild some of these into fly away condition as well. Boneyarding planes is a common practice.
Aust did the same with the F-111G's. Originally they were supposed to be spares, that soon changed to getting them into useable condition as the planes we identified as useful had substantial flyaway life left. I have no doubt that the Mirages selected will also go through a boneyard process.
As it currently stands, my comments on Gripen availability appear to be prescient. If that continues to be the case, then boneyarding the Mirages will be even more of an issue while JF-17's are introduced. 8 x JF-17's per year will be a slow introduction and backfill will be critical if the PAF intends to continue to play the absolute numbers game.
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
GF i think the intitial production rate for JF-17 are goign to be 20 per-year, but these are not the JF-17 that would be used by PAF, PAF would use empty shells made at CAC (produced at a fast rate), they have an agreement with CAC for the purchase of 150-200 units. and PAK karma I think is where PAF's would produce Jf-17 shells+electric(in limted numbers) mainly for export (PAK Karma facility is being expanded and modernized for this task). as i have said PAF wants to buy 60+ western jets so if grippen is not available (highly unlikely) then Mirage 2005/2009 = 2005 mk2, would be the choice. We can't leave out the MLU's for the existing 32 f-16 and the 8 replacements with MLU's promised by the US.gf0012-aust said:
they are old but not obsolete, they have late 3rd or even fourth generation AC avionics and radars mostly form sagem. so most of these "vintage's" are upto date i don't know if you've heard of the term ROSE upgrade, PAF designates this name to any mirage ac they update, the latest ROSE standard is ROSE 3 which includes IRST among other newer sub systemsmansoor1 said:
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
I can't recall the link, but I was under the impression that PAF have indicated (along with the Chinese that the initial build rate is 8 per year for pakistan. The greater production rate is for the PLAAF initially.adsH said:
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
PLAAF hasn't committed to the AC, they haven't signed the deal with CAC while CAC was in partnership with PAC. this is really CAC+PAC AC. and PAF rite from the start of the program had a commitment for 150. i know the bulk production at the start would be slow but it should pick up. But i havn't heard PLAAF placing any orders for these CAC wants PLAAF to order but i think PLAAF is more interested in J-10. PLAAF still is unsure about of teh capabilitiy of the JF-17 to them its FC-1 (First china).gf0012-aust said:
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
Good news guys finally Sweden agree to sell AWACS to Pakistan as I read in "Daily Jang" news paper. Pakistan also buy 14 SAAB2000 aircrafts. 7 will be given to PIA and seven to PAF. this deal worth $1.4 billion. Pakistan was trying to buy AWACS for 9 years, first time when Benazir visit Sweden in 1995. It increase Pakistani position after the Indian buying Falcon Radars. Best of luck Pakistan.
Good news guys finally Sweden agree to sell AWACS to Pakistan as I read in "Daily Jang" news paper. Pakistan also buy 14 SAAB2000 aircrafts. 7 will be given to PIA and seven to PAF. this deal worth $1.4 billion. Pakistan was trying to buy AWACS for 9 years, first time when Benazir visit Sweden in 1995. It increase Pakistani position after the Indian buying Falcon Radars. Best of luck Pakistan.
mysterious
New Member
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
I think the Swedes still have some second thoughts to give to the Gripen as a potential sale to PAF 'cuz its about time they realized that selling Gripens to PAF wouldn't in any way tilt the balance in Pakistan's favor. India already has Su-30 MKIs with more on order plus Mirage 2005s on order. Gripens would only close the balance which is heavily in India's favor at the moment. I dont think the Swedes need me to tell them the situation of balance of power in South Asia. After Erieye, I think the PAF guys and Musharraf could well sweet-talk Sweden in to agreeing to sell the Gripen. Its just an opinion though. Could very well go in the opposite direction as well. I guess time will deliver its verdict. :smokingc:
I think the Swedes still have some second thoughts to give to the Gripen as a potential sale to PAF 'cuz its about time they realized that selling Gripens to PAF wouldn't in any way tilt the balance in Pakistan's favor. India already has Su-30 MKIs with more on order plus Mirage 2005s on order. Gripens would only close the balance which is heavily in India's favor at the moment. I dont think the Swedes need me to tell them the situation of balance of power in South Asia. After Erieye, I think the PAF guys and Musharraf could well sweet-talk Sweden in to agreeing to sell the Gripen. Its just an opinion though. Could very well go in the opposite direction as well. I guess time will deliver its verdict. :smokingc:
mysterious
New Member
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
Pakistan seeking Swedish radar system
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is seeking a strategic radar system from Sweden, said Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman for the Pakistan Air Force.
He said talks were under way with Sweden over the purchase of an Airborne Early Warning System, but no final decision had been taken. A Swedish embassy spokesman confirmed that the matter came up for discussion when President Pervez Musharraf visited Stockholm last week. He said a Swedish parliamentary commission, which handles defence-related deals, had approved the sale of the radar system and it was now up to Pakistani authorities to decide. “I can’t say at what stage it’s at, but the negotiations have been going on for quite some time,†he said. Reuters
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_15-7-2004_pg7_43
Another piece of information that I came across. At least its been confirmed that Swedes have approved the sale of Erieye and now, only the Gripens would have to be waited up on and PAF would have to see if the Swedes reconsider the option of selling 'em or not.
Pakistan seeking Swedish radar system
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is seeking a strategic radar system from Sweden, said Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman for the Pakistan Air Force.
He said talks were under way with Sweden over the purchase of an Airborne Early Warning System, but no final decision had been taken. A Swedish embassy spokesman confirmed that the matter came up for discussion when President Pervez Musharraf visited Stockholm last week. He said a Swedish parliamentary commission, which handles defence-related deals, had approved the sale of the radar system and it was now up to Pakistani authorities to decide. “I can’t say at what stage it’s at, but the negotiations have been going on for quite some time,†he said. Reuters
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_15-7-2004_pg7_43
Another piece of information that I came across. At least its been confirmed that Swedes have approved the sale of Erieye and now, only the Gripens would have to be waited up on and PAF would have to see if the Swedes reconsider the option of selling 'em or not.
fieldmarshal
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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
this is wt dawn enwspaper is reportin 2day
ISLAMABAD, July 14: Pakistan, concerned over nuclear rival India's plans to acquire a strategic radar system from Israel, is seeking a similar system from Sweden.
Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman for the Pakistan Air Force, said talks were under way with Sweden over the purchase of an Airborne Early Warning System, but no final decision had been taken.
A Swedish embassy spokesman confirmed that the matter came up for discussion when President Pervez Musharraf visited Stockholm last week. He said a Swedish parliamentary commission, which handles defence-related deals, had approved the sale of the radar system and it was now up to Pakistani authorities to decide.
"I can't say at what stage it's at, but the negotiations have been going on for quite some time," he told Reuters. Nuclear-armed Pakistan and India have continued to focus on building their military capabilities despite a warming of ties since they went to the brink of a fourth war in 2002.
News of Islamabad's negotiations with Sweden comes after India announced one of its highest peacetime hikes in annual defence expenditure last week, saying it was needed to honour a slew of arms contracts
this is wt dawn enwspaper is reportin 2day
ISLAMABAD, July 14: Pakistan, concerned over nuclear rival India's plans to acquire a strategic radar system from Israel, is seeking a similar system from Sweden.
Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman for the Pakistan Air Force, said talks were under way with Sweden over the purchase of an Airborne Early Warning System, but no final decision had been taken.
A Swedish embassy spokesman confirmed that the matter came up for discussion when President Pervez Musharraf visited Stockholm last week. He said a Swedish parliamentary commission, which handles defence-related deals, had approved the sale of the radar system and it was now up to Pakistani authorities to decide.
"I can't say at what stage it's at, but the negotiations have been going on for quite some time," he told Reuters. Nuclear-armed Pakistan and India have continued to focus on building their military capabilities despite a warming of ties since they went to the brink of a fourth war in 2002.
News of Islamabad's negotiations with Sweden comes after India announced one of its highest peacetime hikes in annual defence expenditure last week, saying it was needed to honour a slew of arms contracts
fieldmarshal
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
as the swede govt. has given approval for this deal accordin to the swedish embassy official, thus for all pratical purposes its a done deal. now all is required is for either mushi or the acm to put pen to paper.
cool man more good news. MASHA ALLAH
as the swede govt. has given approval for this deal accordin to the swedish embassy official, thus for all pratical purposes its a done deal. now all is required is for either mushi or the acm to put pen to paper.
cool man more good news. MASHA ALLAH
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
adsh, I spent way too many minutes on the phone last night talking to my sources.The advance party left for Sweden about days ago, and the ACM is to leave in 2 days to put his initials on the dotted line for the GOP.Mushy won't be signing it.He did approve of the deal before leaving for his visit to the Scandanavian countries.adsH said:
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
http://www.dawn.com/2004/07/15/top2.htm
Islamabad seeks Swedish radar system
ISLAMABAD, July 14: Pakistan, concerned over nuclear rival India's plans to acquire a strategic radar system from Israel, is seeking a similar system from Sweden.
Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman for the Pakistan Air Force, said talks were under way with Sweden over the purchase of an Airborne Early Warning System, but no final decision had been taken.
A Swedish embassy spokesman confirmed that the matter came up for discussion when President Pervez Musharraf visited Stockholm last week. He said a Swedish parliamentary commission, which handles defence-related deals, had approved the sale of the radar system and it was now up to Pakistani authorities to decide.
"I can't say at what stage it's at, but the negotiations have been going on for quite some time," he told Reuters. Nuclear-armed Pakistan and India have continued to focus on building their military capabilities despite a warming of ties since they went to the brink of a fourth war in 2002.
News of Islamabad's negotiations with Sweden comes after India announced one of its highest peacetime hikes in annual defence expenditure last week, saying it was needed to honour a slew of arms contracts.
ISRAELI DEAL: These included a deal signed with Israel - which has emerged as India's second biggest arms supplier after Russia - to mount Phalcon radar systems on a Russian-made aircraft to enable the Indian Air Force to pry deep into Pakistani airspace.
Pakistan, which itself raised its spending on defence by seven per cent for the financial year from July 1, said the sharp increase in India's defence spending could trigger an arms race.
Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokesman Masood Khan said on Monday the scale of the increase by India was not justified, given recent bilateral peace moves and talks between India and China, which also have been traditional rivals. -Reuters
http://www.pakistanidefence.com/news/FullNews/2004/July2004/AWECS_DEAL.htm
Pakistan To Receive Swedish ERIEYE AEW&C System And SAAB Aircrafts
July 14, 2004: Pakistan has taken a big leap to strengthen its fast depleting air power by securing a nod from Sweden to sell Islamabad an Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&CS), informed sources said. This state-of-the-art system will also augment Pakistan Navy’s existing potential for maritime and tactical surveillance, the sources added. Close to final approval is Pakistan’s decision to acquire 14 SAAB 2000 aircraft from Sweden. Seven of these aircraft will be dedicated for the PAF’s AEW&CS while the remaining seven will be acquired by the PIA to replace its fleet of Fokker aircraft, which have already been grounded, the sources said.
Several Fokker-related incidents, including the last year’s crash that killed the then chief of air staff, air marshal Mushaf Ali Mir, and 17 other PAF officials, the PIA had decided last year to sell its fleet of 11 aircraft and replace them with compatible ones. The seven SAAB 2000 that will replace the ageing Fokkers on the PIA’s heavily subsidized socio-economic routes will help the airline save about Rs 200 million on the subsidized routes that cost the PIA about Rs 400 million every year. Because of the composite nature of the deal, the PIA would pay only $45 million for the seven SAAB aircraft as against the $98 million for the French ATR and $91 million for the American Dash-8 that will cost about $98 million. For its part the Swedish government has provided a guarantee for the smooth supply of SAAB spare parts as long as the aircraft is flown anywhere in the world, the PIA sources confirmed. Six hundred of such planes are being flown all over the world.
The SAAB aircraft for the PAF will be equipped with ERIEYE AEW&C system which can manage airborne early warning; intercept communication; airspace management; surveillance and control borders; detect illegal shipment of weapons and drugs; and coordinate search and rescue operations. It will be two years before the PAF receives its first AEW&C system. The deal would cost Pakistan about $1.7 billion (approximately Rs 90 billion) during the next five years, and it will constitute the biggest defence purchase by the Musharraf administration. During his recently concluded visit to Sweden, President Pervez Musharraf is understood to have held extensive discussions with the Swedish leadership on Pakistan’s interest in the AEW&CS, sources familiar with the discussions in Sweden said.
Sweden had earlier turned down Pakistan’s requests on the reasons ranging from democracy to child labour. Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Sa’adat Kaleem will be visiting Sweden to further negotiate the deal later this month. The sources said the AEW&CS would not only help Pakistan to counter-balance the Indian acquisition of the Israeli Phalcon airborne surveillance system, it will boast the Pakistan Air Force’s and the Navy’s reaction capabilities by providing early and specific warnings. In the Rs 7.6 trillion defence budget announced this week, the Indian government has earmarked the largest sum for country’s air force by committing to buy new combat aircraft, airborne warning and control systems and missiles during the current year.
"The AEW&CS from Sweden, F-7 from China, upgraded Mirages from France and fresh supplies of Mirage spare parts from Libya would help the PAF meet the air challenge from our arch rival," commented a retired PAF air marshal. Pakistan had first shown interest in the purchase of AWE&CS from Sweden in 1995 when the then Pakistani prime minister, Benazir Bhutto, had visited Stockholm and had requested the then Swedish premier, Olf Palme, to approve the sale. "For nine years we have tried to secure these aircraft from SAAB/Erricson," said an official source.
While the PAF made a determined effort to induct the SAAB AEW&CS into its fleet, but in its process to replace the Fokkers, the PIA tested the SAAB 2000, fitted with engine from Allison/Rolls Royce ATR and Dash-8 fitted with engines from Pratt and Whitney. With the PAF’s deal for SAAB-based AEW&C almost complete, it is now almost certain that the PIA would approve a strong internal recommendation for the SAAB 2000. "It makes more sense because the SAAB will be setting facility for the maintenance of the PAF’s SAAB 2000 in the country," said an official. "It’s much feasible, both financially as well as technically, to have a combined maintenance facility for the PAF’s and the PIA’s SAAB fleet."
http://www.dawn.com/2004/07/15/top2.htm
Islamabad seeks Swedish radar system
ISLAMABAD, July 14: Pakistan, concerned over nuclear rival India's plans to acquire a strategic radar system from Israel, is seeking a similar system from Sweden.
Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman for the Pakistan Air Force, said talks were under way with Sweden over the purchase of an Airborne Early Warning System, but no final decision had been taken.
A Swedish embassy spokesman confirmed that the matter came up for discussion when President Pervez Musharraf visited Stockholm last week. He said a Swedish parliamentary commission, which handles defence-related deals, had approved the sale of the radar system and it was now up to Pakistani authorities to decide.
"I can't say at what stage it's at, but the negotiations have been going on for quite some time," he told Reuters. Nuclear-armed Pakistan and India have continued to focus on building their military capabilities despite a warming of ties since they went to the brink of a fourth war in 2002.
News of Islamabad's negotiations with Sweden comes after India announced one of its highest peacetime hikes in annual defence expenditure last week, saying it was needed to honour a slew of arms contracts.
ISRAELI DEAL: These included a deal signed with Israel - which has emerged as India's second biggest arms supplier after Russia - to mount Phalcon radar systems on a Russian-made aircraft to enable the Indian Air Force to pry deep into Pakistani airspace.
Pakistan, which itself raised its spending on defence by seven per cent for the financial year from July 1, said the sharp increase in India's defence spending could trigger an arms race.
Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokesman Masood Khan said on Monday the scale of the increase by India was not justified, given recent bilateral peace moves and talks between India and China, which also have been traditional rivals. -Reuters
http://www.pakistanidefence.com/news/FullNews/2004/July2004/AWECS_DEAL.htm
Pakistan To Receive Swedish ERIEYE AEW&C System And SAAB Aircrafts
July 14, 2004: Pakistan has taken a big leap to strengthen its fast depleting air power by securing a nod from Sweden to sell Islamabad an Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&CS), informed sources said. This state-of-the-art system will also augment Pakistan Navy’s existing potential for maritime and tactical surveillance, the sources added. Close to final approval is Pakistan’s decision to acquire 14 SAAB 2000 aircraft from Sweden. Seven of these aircraft will be dedicated for the PAF’s AEW&CS while the remaining seven will be acquired by the PIA to replace its fleet of Fokker aircraft, which have already been grounded, the sources said.
Several Fokker-related incidents, including the last year’s crash that killed the then chief of air staff, air marshal Mushaf Ali Mir, and 17 other PAF officials, the PIA had decided last year to sell its fleet of 11 aircraft and replace them with compatible ones. The seven SAAB 2000 that will replace the ageing Fokkers on the PIA’s heavily subsidized socio-economic routes will help the airline save about Rs 200 million on the subsidized routes that cost the PIA about Rs 400 million every year. Because of the composite nature of the deal, the PIA would pay only $45 million for the seven SAAB aircraft as against the $98 million for the French ATR and $91 million for the American Dash-8 that will cost about $98 million. For its part the Swedish government has provided a guarantee for the smooth supply of SAAB spare parts as long as the aircraft is flown anywhere in the world, the PIA sources confirmed. Six hundred of such planes are being flown all over the world.
The SAAB aircraft for the PAF will be equipped with ERIEYE AEW&C system which can manage airborne early warning; intercept communication; airspace management; surveillance and control borders; detect illegal shipment of weapons and drugs; and coordinate search and rescue operations. It will be two years before the PAF receives its first AEW&C system. The deal would cost Pakistan about $1.7 billion (approximately Rs 90 billion) during the next five years, and it will constitute the biggest defence purchase by the Musharraf administration. During his recently concluded visit to Sweden, President Pervez Musharraf is understood to have held extensive discussions with the Swedish leadership on Pakistan’s interest in the AEW&CS, sources familiar with the discussions in Sweden said.
Sweden had earlier turned down Pakistan’s requests on the reasons ranging from democracy to child labour. Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Sa’adat Kaleem will be visiting Sweden to further negotiate the deal later this month. The sources said the AEW&CS would not only help Pakistan to counter-balance the Indian acquisition of the Israeli Phalcon airborne surveillance system, it will boast the Pakistan Air Force’s and the Navy’s reaction capabilities by providing early and specific warnings. In the Rs 7.6 trillion defence budget announced this week, the Indian government has earmarked the largest sum for country’s air force by committing to buy new combat aircraft, airborne warning and control systems and missiles during the current year.
"The AEW&CS from Sweden, F-7 from China, upgraded Mirages from France and fresh supplies of Mirage spare parts from Libya would help the PAF meet the air challenge from our arch rival," commented a retired PAF air marshal. Pakistan had first shown interest in the purchase of AWE&CS from Sweden in 1995 when the then Pakistani prime minister, Benazir Bhutto, had visited Stockholm and had requested the then Swedish premier, Olf Palme, to approve the sale. "For nine years we have tried to secure these aircraft from SAAB/Erricson," said an official source.
While the PAF made a determined effort to induct the SAAB AEW&CS into its fleet, but in its process to replace the Fokkers, the PIA tested the SAAB 2000, fitted with engine from Allison/Rolls Royce ATR and Dash-8 fitted with engines from Pratt and Whitney. With the PAF’s deal for SAAB-based AEW&C almost complete, it is now almost certain that the PIA would approve a strong internal recommendation for the SAAB 2000. "It makes more sense because the SAAB will be setting facility for the maintenance of the PAF’s SAAB 2000 in the country," said an official. "It’s much feasible, both financially as well as technically, to have a combined maintenance facility for the PAF’s and the PIA’s SAAB fleet."
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
ERIEYE
ERIEYE has been developed by Ericsson Microwave Systems. The system comprises an active, phased-array pulse-Doppler radar including integrated secondary surveillance radar and identification friend or foe (SSR/IFF), a comprehensive, modular command-and-control system, electronic support measures (ESM), communications and datalinks.
Rather than conventional rotodome antenna system, ERIEYE has a fixed, dual-sided and electronically scanned antenna mounted on top of the fuselage. This places much less demand on aircraft size and is designed for mounting on commuter-type aircraft. The ERIEYE is capable of 360° detection and tracking of air and sea targets over the horizon. The instrumented range is 450km and a typical detection range against a fighter aircraft size target is in excess of 350km.
The system uses advanced solid-state electronics, open-system architecture and ruggedized commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) hardware, including general-purpose programmable workstations and full-colour LCD displays. The ERIEYE radar is already in service with the Swedish Air Force and is in series production for Brazil and other customers.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/emb/index.html
ERIEYE
ERIEYE has been developed by Ericsson Microwave Systems. The system comprises an active, phased-array pulse-Doppler radar including integrated secondary surveillance radar and identification friend or foe (SSR/IFF), a comprehensive, modular command-and-control system, electronic support measures (ESM), communications and datalinks.
Rather than conventional rotodome antenna system, ERIEYE has a fixed, dual-sided and electronically scanned antenna mounted on top of the fuselage. This places much less demand on aircraft size and is designed for mounting on commuter-type aircraft. The ERIEYE is capable of 360° detection and tracking of air and sea targets over the horizon. The instrumented range is 450km and a typical detection range against a fighter aircraft size target is in excess of 350km.
The system uses advanced solid-state electronics, open-system architecture and ruggedized commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) hardware, including general-purpose programmable workstations and full-colour LCD displays. The ERIEYE radar is already in service with the Swedish Air Force and is in series production for Brazil and other customers.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/emb/index.html
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet
The Phalcon is substantially more powerful than Eyrie. The Eyrie is rated below the E2C. (well, it was on the last project I was involved with, which was about 6 months ago)P.A.F said: