PAF to get ERIEYE/AEW/AWACS from Sweden

[adsH]

Small news: PAF CAS left for Sweden on the 29th and arrived back in Pakistan yesterday (31st July).

__________________
this is from a very creadible poster on Pakdef.info site
http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showthread.php?p=49522#post49522

 

[Oqaab]

The PHALCON will take 7 years to come to India. The Erieye will take 2 years. There will be no 4th generation fighter needs (till 5 years) once we got this AWACS radar.

 

[mysterious]

Thats what I like about this deal. Short n sweet!

 

[adsH]

i guess the deal would be quick, because everything was decided along time ago and the platforms are most-likely going to be the Saab 2000 AC which are second hand. someone has to think about this that why did PAF choose Saab 2000 as the platform its larger then the eyrie's original platform.

 

[corsair7772]

Phalcon will take 7 years to come to india? are you referring to some future project or something? How can the Phalcon take 7 years 2 become operational. Last time i checked, the indian infra structure was operating smoothly and so was IAI. :?

 

[srirangan]

PHALCON will be available to India by 2006-2007. The 7 year estimate is just wishful thinking by a pro Pak poster.

 

[darklegent]

Guys lets cut the crap of Indian Awacs and Pakistani AEW/Awacs get backto the PAF gettin the Erieye........ PLZZZZZZ. Can someone plz brief me as to when the Sab2000 are expected to be delivered to Pakistan (seems really odd to ask such a question since the productions of these models stopped about 4 years back) and when is the first operational AEW/AWAC (year if not month) is expected to join the PAF.

 

[adsH]

first PAF has to sign the contract, which apparently has not been done yet.
I still think the ACM's secret vist was related to the contract who knows its possible they could of signed the Contract and are waiting to release the News through proper FO Channels. Its also possible that PAF might wait till the next Armament Talk with the US which i think is scheduled Next moth. they could also use the Saab 2000 +Erieye deal as leverage to make the swedes sell Grippens.

the Americans have a policy not to sell and introduce Advance High tech weaponry to particular region, so technically they couldn't of sold teh E3C last year when India didn't sign the deal (I think ) but its possible that they (US) would be willing to provide the Refurbished and updated E3c to PAF with strict controls in place ie permanent USAF personnel onboard.

 

[darklegent]

No fixed dates or delivery schedules yet. Man all i feel that the ppl here are doing is speculate. I wish gf0012 were here. Miss u man.

 

[corsair7772]

first PAF has to sign the contract, which apparently has not been done yet.
I still think the ACM's secret vist was related to the contract who knows its possible they could of signed the Contract and are waiting to release the News through proper FO Channels. Its also possible that PAF might wait till the next Armament Talk with the US which i think is scheduled Next moth. they could also use the Saab 2000 +Erieye deal as leverage to make the swedes sell Grippens.

the Americans have a policy not to sell and introduce Advance High tech weaponry to particular region, so technically they couldn't of sold teh E3C last year when India didn't sign the deal (I think ) but its possible that they (US) would be willing to provide the Refurbished and updated E3c to PAF with strict controls in place ie permanent USAF personnel onboard.

The armament talks are about a few scrappy helicopters and few surveillance gadgets. Nothing about what your sayin here (F-16s and E-3s). And PS how can the US be willing to sell us E-3s when even E-2s arent scheduled? And forget about the american personnel. When france rethinks it policy about foreign postings for its personnel (eg Agosta technicians) we can expect the same from the americans whod consider sending there technicians to pakistan the same as sending them to Osama's house for milk and cookies. How ever lets say im wrong here and the americans do allow us to buy E-3s which are refurbished placing control of the surveillance channels in Us hands thus allowing the PAF to conduct operations with this system only when the Us wants it too. No fair deal huh? And what about sanctions i war time? if the Us can stop supplies then it can stop the operation of these channels as well meaning your E-3 is now for VIP tasks only.

 

[Skygrasper]

There are a lot of technical things to negotiate about AWACS than political. The thing is, political is only the first step of negotiations, next the PAF has to negotiate the price, induction rate, maintainence costs, supply of spare-parts, training, and many other things.

I'd assume that the Swedes either denied selling us (not likely) or shot the price to high (very likely), causing some complications.

 

[Roger Smith]

The PHALCON will take 7 years to come to India. The Erieye will take 2 years. There will be no 4th generation fighter needs (till 5 years) once we got this AWACS radar.

Oqaab............ please stop with your B.S.

You forget to mention Sweden is giving ToT on Erieye to Pakistan and in 3 years Pakistan will start exporting the same to all Muslims and Arab countries and in 7 years have a fleet of 50 aircrafts. :smokingc:

 

[adsH]

The PHALCON will take 7 years to come to India. The Erieye will take 2 years. There will be no 4th generation fighter needs (till 5 years) once we got this AWACS radar.

Oqaab............ please stop with your B.S.

You forget to mention Sweden is giving ToT on Erieye to Pakistan and in 3 years Pakistan will start exporting the same to all Muslims and Arab countries and in 7 years have a fleet of 50 aircrafts. :smokingc:

thats not true Rogger !! TOT on Erieye would only be at a Software level where PAF engineers would be allowed to Upgrade and develop and share there new alogrithms. But i doubt the Sharing would extend beyond the Software level. the swedes would want to keep pakistan's market open for them selves so they could sell Physical level equipments ie Hardware sales. they can afford to provide all software specifications and details to develop the system further as it would help the swedish technology to develop furhter. i think Brazil South africa Sweden and Greece and Pakistan would all benefit from sharing and joint development.

 

[corsair7772]

cud u explain the software part a bit gently? i dont get computers a lot.

 

[adsH]

i guess GF" would be able to explain the sale part better there is no doubt he has alot of experience in the field. But i guess when Swede's sell something like a sophisticated System as the Eyriie or grip's they would definitely give its source code. Source codes are pre-compiled raw programming (that humans can fix and understand). and this is where the recipient of the pre-compiled Sourcecode can add new algorithms ie new features and fix bugs within the system. there are number of testing that are carried out during the operational lifetime of the system, something that is called exhaustive testing. Upgrades to the softwares are probably going to be shared with sweden, that same way sweden would share new upgrades with Pakistan. this is all depends on the fact that if PAF negotiates for the Source code, which they should and probably would. one thing that would be beneficial for Sweden would be that PAF's Eyriee's would be confronted with Phalcons and so Saab would definitely gain more intell about this Platform. And hence would be able to further enhance the Eyriee.

 

[gf0012-aust]

i guess GF" would be able to explain the sale part better there is no doubt he has alot of experience in the field. But i guess when Swede's sell something like a sophisticated System as the Eyriie or grip's they would definitely give its source code. Source codes are pre-compiled raw programming (that humans can fix and understand). and this is where the recipient of the pre-compiled Sourcecode can add new algorithms ie new features and fix bugs within the system. there are number of testing that are carried out during the operational lifetime of the system, something that is called exhaustive testing. Upgrades to the softwares are probably going to be shared with sweden, that same way sweden would share new upgrades with Pakistan. this is all depends on the fact that if PAF negotiates for the Source code, which they should and probably would. one thing that would be beneficial for Sweden would be that PAF's Eyriee's would be confronted with Phalcons and so Saab would definitely gain more intell about this Platform. And hence would be able to further enhance the Eyriee.

I'd have to say that I find it incredibly doubtful that Sweden will give Pakistan source code due to its relationship with China. SAAB are very good at extracting maint and support contracts, so any integration and development issues will stay their property anyway. They will not let anyone get access to that absolute intimacies of their detection programmes and the way that they anticipate and detect threats.

The source code for an AWACs/AEW platform is their intellectual property, it is the basis of their core business advantage - and they will not open that up for a customer. The US doesn't give some source code to the UK, Australia doesn't give some of our EW-C4i long range gear source code to the US, Israel would not have given it to China (if the deal had gone ahead), France is still trying to convince the Singaporeans that they will not get all of the Rafale source code if they buy it etc..... The Chinese only provide Pakistan with their export "rated" code, as would some of the Russian systems be with India.

The only source code that is sold with a system is that which is deemed defensible and protected to the host, or the tech is seen as redundant or generationally "compromised".

In fact, I'd bet my house that Pakistan if it gets the Erieye will not get critical code.

It's the way of the world of military sales.

 

[P.A.F]

well whatever. anyway i'm confused man. why the SAAB 2000. can't we get better platforms. wouldn't the c-130 be a good platform?

 

[adsH]

thnx for that GF now its alot more clear. But do you have any specific information about he swedes. they do business abit differently. i mean its not as if they are selling the physical layer technology, they are a small nation that needs other partners to develop there technology. as i said before they would never offer physical layer technology like the hardware etc.

 

[Revival_786]

Maybe that's another reason why Pak getting like 7 of those Erieyes... to reverse engineer one of them

 

[adsH]

Maybe that's another reason why Pak getting like 7 of those Erieyes... to reverse engineer one of them

reverse engineering is not easy. when a code writer rites a piece of code which Srri would know, we or they encrypt the actual readable text that can make sense. after compilation of the code the readable text is lost and machine language is almost impossible to understand.