PAF IN 2015

[Aussie Digger]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

Why would Pakistan require 5 different types of generally short range fighters? It doesn't make sense to me. Greater numbers of fighters of the same type would provide greater capability in that more money could be spent on them. All these different fighters require completely different logistical support and maintenance regimes. Given that acquisition of the JF-10 won't present any political problem it makes sense (to me at least) to base your force on this aircraft and have 1 or 2 at the most other aircraft as the "silver bullet" force. I think the ideal (fighter) aircraft mix for the PAF would be the JF-10, Eurofighter and possibly the F-16 MLU variants. The JF-10 could be used for the interceptor/air defence role. The Eurofighter for air defence and strike/reconnaissance tasks and the F-16 for air defence and strike/SEAD tasks. This would provide excellent capabilities in all facets of air combat and would have the benefit of being much less expensive to maintain than 5+ fighter types, especially considering the age of some of the PAF current types. The cost savings then generated could be plowed back into capability upgrades for other areas of Pakistan's defences.

 

[joker]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

True Aussie but the Mirage Rose and F7PGs arent going anywhere until 2015. They may be prematurely retired and stored if we manage to get 11 F16 attrition replacements plus a further 40 Dutch/Belgian examples all with a MLU. If not then the Mirage Rose at the very least will remain in service. I also suspect that the PAF top brass are reluctant to phase them out so soon as the only project that to date has is a definate is the JF 17. The issue of F16s is not definate although they will be able to be inducted fairly quickly after the MLU due to the existing infrastructure.

Then onto the issue of J10, Rafale or EF. Im not entirely sure but I suspect that delivery dates for the PAF of any one of the above will be around 2010. Say another few yrs to deliver the last unit thats fast approaching 2015.

The JF 17 is to replace all the 'antiques' currently in service but I doubt the PAF would be too willing to get start slashing operational fighters and place all our eggs in the JF 17 basket without any guarantees in place that we will be getting F16 MLUs and a 4th gen.

 

[Bilal_Khan]

The PAF should be able to spend roughly 8bn US Dollars over the next 10 years (like I pointed out in my last post on this thread). Thats around 800mn US Dollars a year, but 3bn US Dollars would be paid off right now, and the remainder over the next 10 years at 500mn US Dollars a year out of the 1bn USD PAF annual budget.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

If you really wanna be realistic, then PAF should look like this in 2015.

JF-17 150
Mirage 2000-5 60
Rafale 20
F-16 15
j-10 30
F-7PG 120
Mirage II 80
Eurofighter 20 (Highly impossible)

What y think?

 

[webmaster]

Rafale AND Eurofighter? :no On top of that F-16s and J-10s? You know how much cost it would be to keep that fleet running smoothly?

 

[Roger Smith]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

If you really wanna be realistic, then PAF should look like this in 2015.

JF-17 150
Mirage 2000-5 60
Rafale 20
F-16 15
j-10 30
F-7PG 120
Mirage II 80
Eurofighter 20 (Highly impossible)

What y think?

Anything is possible, the above figures are realistic. :smokingc:

 

[mysterious]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

My reaction to the list; listed by P.A.F. here is that its quite pessimistic and probably off the track as you cannot maintain soo many different types of aircrafts at one time. You have to balance between the quality and the quantity as well as variety to function properly with the little resources that Pakistan Airforce has and the political problems that Pakistan faces.

 

[umair]

I agree with mysterious.Oh and PAF get this straight Rafale is a second or third choice for a new PAF silver bullet force,The Typhoon is still on top and Britian's defence minister talking of the Typhoon being a failure is nothing but tonnes of typical politician bollocks.Also there is a strong tilt almost cent % in the force towards the Typhoon.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

Being realistic, the PAF will maintain it's current type unless it can obtain new aircraft. IF they can obtain additional F-16's and an upgrade package then I would expect these to replace another aircraft possibly the F-7 due to it's extremely dated design and limited combat capability. In addition if sufficient F-16's were obtained then the Mirage 2 might be replaced with this aircraft as well. Pakistan in my opinion is maintaining a diverse fleet of aircraft only because it is having difficulty in obtaining sufficient numbers of and spare parts/weapons for it's front line fighter aircraft. In my view PAF efforts should be directed at increasing it's F-16 fleet and upgrading same to a common standard, ie: Block 50 or Block 52. A new fighter such as the JF-10 should be obtained to provide the backbone of the force and a new "high tech" 4th generation fighter should be obtained to maintain a qualitative edge over most potential enemies. PAF would simply be wasting resources by attempting to maintain a fleet of aircraft of more than 3 separate types of fighter aircraft. These resources could be better used for upgrades to weapons and systems of the aircraft I have mentioned, acquisition of a modern integtrated air defence system, including mobile and long range fixed ground based air surveillance radars, an AWACS system, an overlapping air defence missile system (comprising short and longe range SAM's), a command control and communications system to "network" the Air defence system together and air to air refuellers to support the AWACS and fighter aircraft. This type of system would provide Pakistan with the capabilities necessary to ensure they can adequately protect their airspace and support their land and naval forces as necessary. Attempting to acquire anything other than this is simply ludicrous. Cheers.

 

[The Watcher]

Agree with AD.

JF-10? Its JF-17 / Fc1 thats Pakistan and china are making jointly. China is also working on J-10 which is similar to Lavi.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

Sorry JF-17 is what I meant...

 

[mysterious]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

JF-17 will certainly form the backbone of PAF but it isnt a bad idea to get Chinese J-10s once the Chinese put them up for export. And even if China doesnt market J-10 internationally (which it will be using as its own front-line fighter) then given the warm relations between China and Pakistan, I am optimistic that the Chinese would atlest agree on selling J-10s to Pakistan as the Chinese have to ensure that India's western plank is not left unchecked (where Pakistan sits). This is why I think Chinese will try its best to support PAF to a great extent with its technology and as we have seen in the past; its always been China who has come to Pakistan's help when it needed it the most. (Even though China is warming up relations with India; bottom line is, China is not going to let India be a regional hegemon around so all this warming up is just strategic planning and nothing else. China's main interests lie in Pakistan as a counter to India as alwayz) :smokingc:

 

[corsair7772]

How abt this?
by 2015 the paf shud be sumthing like..
50 Ef-2000
70 J-10s
90-J-11s
150 JF-17s

The J-11s go into the high-tech stop gap measure with the Ef n J-10 being the high tech muscle suplemented by upgraded JF-17s .

 

[umair]

Good news! heard it at u know where and confirmed it after some forcefull questioning of my uncle
We're getting SAAB ERIEYS(?) :smokingc:
The deal was signed in Feb this year but still has not been made public, but leaked out on pakdef.info's forums from where it went to that place.(looks like June's good news came out early )
He told me that the model we're getting is JSTARS and AWACS rolled into one(like the Phalcon) He also told me that contrary to popular myth NESCOM(Pak's missile dev centre) played a key part in the design and development of the SD-10's seeker head and it will be in service by June or at latest.Plus that the pace of the development of the ramjet SD-10 is being stepped up.Sniff! tears of joy atlast :cry

 

[corsair7772]

HOLY MACKAREL!!!!

HELLEUJA!!!
THIS IS GR8!!!!

Do u have a source or sumthin? or just tell me the forum from where u got this.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Good news! heard it at u know where and confirmed it after some forcefull questioning of my uncle
We're getting SAAB ERIEYS(?) :smokingc:
The deal was signed in Feb this year but still has not been made public, but leaked out on pakdef.info's forums from where it went to that place.(looks like June's good news came out early )
He told me that the model we're getting is JSTARS and AWACS rolled into one(like the Phalcon) He also told me that contrary to popular myth NESCOM(Pak's missile dev centre) played a key part in the design and development of the SD-10's seeker head and it will be in service by June or at latest.Plus that the pace of the development of the ramjet SD-10 is being stepped up.Sniff! tears of joy atlast :cry

Congrats! They are a very capable little unit. Do you know what platform you will be mounting them on?

Hopefully you'll get them datalinked to your naval assets as well.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

I don't recall ever seeing this radar on anything but the Embraer 145. If Sweden is willing to sell this to PAF, the why not the Gripen? The Gripen would be good for Pakistan given it's high level of technology (and capability) and relatively affordable price. Plus it's networking capablity with the Erieye AWACS system is supposedly the world's best at present. Sweden as I understand it, has a fantastic network centric warfare capability. Such an advanced capability would greatly enhance Pakistans overall combat capability and possibly allow them to overmatch any potential enemies in some areas.

 

[umair]

Well AD just wait till the final product Thunder comes out.From what info I have this bird is not a 3rd gen plane but it's in the 4.2-4.305 range same as the Grippen.It's also equipped with a multi channel data link.And from what the PAF is putting in this bird I feel that the $15 mill a pop price tag is just for public fodder and the real deal will be somewhere about $20-25 mill a pop.
Well I've seen some pics of it.In one it's on a turboprop,ona jet with twin rear mounted jets and one with two under wing jets

 

[joker]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

AD i think the Gripen was discounted due to the 15-20%(?) American components of the aircraft. But no doubt about it the Gripen is one of the best out there.

I pretty much agree with your assessment but we have to remember that any deal for the F16s will be subject to Congress approval. We couldnt even get Congress to approve the sale of Block 15s let alone Block 50/52s. Any surplus F16s from US stocks is not going to happen. I think the PAF is trying to seek US approval for ex Belgian/ex Dutch F16s. In addition to those the PAF wants 11 attrition replacements to bring our current fleet back upto 40 units. Theyre even trying for a MLU to standardise the PAF fleet if ex Belgian/ex Dutch examples are acquired. Although I believe that the Dutch examples are C/D and not A/B. The PAF is looking at increasing the current 32 strength to 80 (the figure they had originally planned to induct before sanctions were slapped on.)

What is pretty much definate is the 150 JF17s and 32-40 4th gen.

However as long as there is nothing definate on the F16 front then the Mirage Rose and F7 will have slog on.

I think right now the J10 is just an option to the PAF in case the F16 falls through and a 4th gen fighter can not be acquired for whatever reason.

 

[joker]

Re: 2015 and "Pakistan Air Force"

Umair can you provide a full spec for the JF 17s sub systems?