NZDF General discussion thread

[SamB]

If anything i think the last year has shown the 'empire' model at its worst. Due to the the global impact of unjustified tarrifs, economic terrorism in its own right, the illegal wars which has led to the most unstable environment we've seen in decades.

Frankly i see AUKUS as doomed as a result of Trumps erractic behavior. He says he doesnt need us and we're cowards until he sees Iran war is failing.Then all of a sudden its help us, then waives a stick and says, serious repercussions by us if you dont?

Allegedly has a 'peace deal' while preparing a ground invasion.which many former promenient defence chiefs now qouted on youtube have said this would be a catastrophe for any invading navy or ground force there in the long term.

They struggle to even replace their own warships and subs yet somehow are going to build up to 9 nuclear powered ones for Austraila, before the deadline

Im generation X myself.Grew up in Whangerei. We had WECO Engineering, Marsden Point and the meat works providing thousands of jobs. For the life of me I cant figure why the govt didnt value such businesses and find a way to keep them running.

Now we have to import refined oil for how much more? And the govt is making several million dollars a day in taxes on that.

The intelligent thing to do in my opinion would be investing that into green energy tech on a massive scale. So we arent beholden to or affected by gulf states and the wars there .

The logistical tail has to make sense. By 1943 America went from approximately two hundred thousand Texas Rangers to fifty million GI's in five years. The way that General Marshal promoted competence over parade ground generals leading to the Marshal Law. And the way that General Bradley's style outshined stars like Paton and his leadership even Eisenhower and embodied the industrial might of America leading to the greatest technological explosion in all of human history are the kinds of technological accelerators that has to make sense for today.

According to some government consultants and think tanks New Zealand can fund 400 billion out of government taxes and if private public partnerships are added perhaps 1 trillion to secure New Zealands sewers and drinking water. That's all that they can come up with. The brain drain has truly limited New Zealands economic modling.

Again the logistical tail has to make sense. To pivot New Zealands economy from a low wage low value add Horizon into a high wage high technology economy the starting figure is likey three trillion in order to accommodate a rising population with a road network and electrical grid and a motor vehicle pool and a communications network that they actually want.

One eye sore is the Cook straight ferry replacement and associated infrastructure. I would argue that that should be replaced with an undersea tunnel tethered to the ocean floor. These are the kinds of technology accelerators that has to bypass the poor decision making of previous generations.

It's going to take every physicist New Zealand can muster with only chalk and a chalk board getting back to basics and figuring out how New Zealand interacts with a global leadership that is showing signs of old age diseases.

When Rome fell the leadership vacuum was disastrous. There was no more rules and it ushered The Dark Ages the most terrifying period in human history and America preposes to fall from an even greater hight. That can not be allowed to happen again. They didn't have nuclear weapons. We do.

An educated middle class is priority number one. Leadership in all areas from theology to culture and politics and family promoted for there ability to learn and grow.

New Zealand needs ammo, energy and communications and medicine independence. New Zealand needs its own top secret clearance with bespoke technology that only works in New Zealand for New Zealand. 3 trillion is just a starting point.

But money isn't an issue. The issue is deploying New Zealands entire GDP into pivoting from a low wage and low value add economy into a high wage and high technology economy for a period of no less than 8 years and managing all the bitching and moaning about getting up at 6 in the morning to go to work.

 

[Rob c]

One eye sore is the Cook straight ferry replacement and associated infrastructure. I would argue that that should be replaced with an undersea tunnel tethered to the ocean floor. These are the kinds of technology accelerators that has to bypass the poor decision making of previous generations.

I have not had time to digest all of the articles however and undersea tunnel is not practical as at it's narrowest part the strait is between 300 and 400 meters deep, this gives you a water pressure of in excess of 41 bar or just under 600psi. also the slope down and back up the other side would likely make rail traffic impractical. Due to the depths of water and the weather the strait produces neither a tunnel or bridge are practical.

 

[Todjaeger]

The logistical tail has to make sense. By 1943 America went from approximately two hundred thousand Texas Rangers to fifty million GI's in five years. The way that General Marshal promoted competence over parade ground generals leading to the Marshal Law. And the way that General Bradley's style outshined stars like Paton and his leadership even Eisenhower and embodied the industrial might of America leading to the greatest technological explosion in all of human history are the kinds of technological accelerators that has to make sense for today.

What on Earth are you on about?! Aside from this being the NZDF thread, the numbers you are throwing around in the above are ludicrous. The US had no where near 200,000 Texas Rangers. For starters, Texas Rangers are a law enforcement component with statewide jurisdiction in the State of Texas, and no authority in any other state within the US. The Texas Rangers had also been fired in 1933 with entirely new personnel replacing them, with the division getting merged in to (State of) Texas Department of Public Safety in 1935. By the end of WWII, the Texas Rangers had an authorized strength of 45 men, as can be found here. For further consideration, the population of the state of Texas from the 1940 census was ~6.4 mil. people.

Also, the US never had 50 mil. GI's serving during WWII. Only about 12% of the US population served in the armed forces during WWII, with a total of about 16 mil. who served at one point or another during the war, out of a total US population of ~131 mil.

Having numbers that are so wildly off detracts from any point one might have been trying to make, since everything else which follows has to be considered questionable in terms of accuracy.

As a side note, the war which probably saw the most change as a result of technological development as well as industrialization was likely the American Civil War fought from 1861-1865.

 

[SamB]

What on Earth are you on about?! Aside from this being the NZDF thread, the numbers you are throwing around in the above are ludicrous. The US had no where near 200,000 Texas Rangers. For starters, Texas Rangers are a law enforcement component with statewide jurisdiction in the State of Texas, and no authority in any other state within the US. The Texas Rangers had also been fired in 1933 with entirely new personnel replacing them, with the division getting merged in to (State of) Texas Department of Public Safety in 1935. By the end of WWII, the Texas Rangers had an authorized strength of 45 men, as can be found here. For further consideration, the population of the state of Texas from the 1940 census was ~6.4 mil. people.

Also, the US never had 50 mil. GI's serving during WWII. Only about 12% of the US population served in the armed forces during WWII, with a total of about 16 mil. who served at one point or another during the war, out of a total US population of ~131 mil.

Having numbers that are so wildly off detracts from any point one might have been trying to make, since everything else which follows has to be considered questionable in terms of accuracy.

As a side note, the war which probably saw the most change as a result of technological development as well as industrialization was likely the American Civil War fought from 1861-1865.

You're right. 12 million it was. Anything else.

 

[SamB]

I have not had time to digest all of the articles however and undersea tunnel is not practical as at it's narrowest part the strait is between 300 and 400 meters deep, this gives you a water pressure of in excess of 41 bar or just under 600psi. also the slope down and back up the other side would likely make rail traffic impractical. Due to the depths of water and the weather the strait produces neither a tunnel or bridge are practical.

Oil rigs go way deeper. And if you really press me on how deep. They go way way deeper. Besides one way to overcome the PSI conundrum and weather is to tether above the ocean floor and below the surface at a usable depth I don't presume to know the exact science of undersea tunneling only that by the time the 200 metre long IRex replacements arrives it'll be using the same births as the 100 meter long births from 50 years ago they'll have to be replaced almost immediately.

 

[SamB]

You're right. 12 million it was. Anything else.

Please excuse my short reply to you Todjaeger. Trust is low, no one can trust anything right now. New Zealands overdeveloped capital is going to have to be destroyed before it can be replaced. And if people are not willing to do that then they should be doused with silence. I know it's bad but I hate New Zealand politics. As a Christian I know hate is bad but I really hate them.

Political ideologies have been running around New Zealand for decades calling everyone fascists or toxic masculinity or communist or whatever and anyone that disagrees with their crazy ass values. There the people that gave us the health system and the sewer system and COVID lockdowns and human waste oozing out of every crack. That's what New Zealand politics does. As long as immigrants can use this dysfunction as a pathway to overtake voting demographics in New Zealand then it has to be considered an invasion. So I argue with them constantly online.

All we have to do is look in the mirror to see who is responsible for all the dysfunction.

The way I view New Zealand is if the Christians are not in charge of New Zealand then someone else is going to be in-charge. It's a race for power and I don't want to be ruled by lunatics. Or we can rule the lunatics of the world.

 

[Xthenaki]

I have not had time to digest all of the articles however and undersea tunnel is not practical as at it's narrowest part the strait is between 300 and 400 meters deep, this gives you a water pressure of in excess of 41 bar or just under 600psi. also the slope down and back up the other side would likely make rail traffic impractical. Due to the depths of water and the weather the strait produces neither a tunnel or bridge are practical.

Absolutely spot on. Also Wgton and Picton do not provide cover for any contingicies should they occur,(Natural disasters.) Coastal shipping offers an alternative providing the Seamens Union can be accepting reality.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

Please excuse my short reply to you Todjaeger. Trust is low, no one can trust anything right now. New Zealands overdeveloped capital is going to have to be destroyed before it can be replaced. And if people are not willing to do that then they should be doused with silence. I know it's bad but I hate New Zealand politics. As a Christian I know hate is bad but I really hate them.

Political ideologies have been running around New Zealand for decades calling everyone fascists or toxic masculinity or communist or whatever and anyone that disagrees with their crazy ass values. There the people that gave us the health system and the sewer system and COVID lockdowns and human waste oozing out of every crack. That's what New Zealand politics does. As long as immigrants can use this dysfunction as a pathway to overtake voting demographics in New Zealand then it has to be considered an invasion. So I argue with them constantly online.

All we have to do is look in the mirror to see who is responsible for all the dysfunction.

The way I view New Zealand is if the Christians are not in charge of New Zealand then someone else is going to be in-charge. It's a race for power and I don't want to be ruled by lunatics. Or we can rule the lunatics of the world.

Religious dogma is part of the problem not the solution. Look the wars been fought Historically and indeed currently based in part for that 'justification' with some of the rhetoric im seeing from the Whitehouse, Israel and Iran about having a just holy war, they are all qouting similar lines Israel President Netanyahu, and The Iranian Ayatolla

Wether Muslim or Christian or Jew.Trumps no Christian by any means by the way, his past actions and words prove that. Or a strategist. If he was he wouldnt of attacked Iran without a act of congress voting to support it, a declaration of war, or even UN backing.

Looking forward to a change of govt in the USA so saner heads can prevail and then im proven wrong about AUKUS.

As for minorities ? You realise we'll need every qualified skilled worker we can to achieve your goal and frankly Nz polytechs cant meet that demand. However many we build. I work for a college mate for many decades as a caretaker. I speak to the faculty members teachers and admin alike. They admit the numbers of those going for those roles even get qualified then its off overseas to Usa, Austraila, UK or Canada, wherever. Most of my family did the same thing lol.

The military faces the same dilemma.Competing against outsourcing and wages and conditions far higher than they can afford. So if we can fill those roles with qualified migrants? Damn right we should!

 

[SamB]

Religious dogma is part of the problem not the solution. Look the wars been fought Historically and indeed currently based in part for that 'justification' with some of the rhetoric im seeing from the Whitehouse, Israel and Iran about having a just holy war, they are all qouting similar lines Israel President Netanyahu, and The Iranian Ayatolla

Wether Muslim or Christian or Jew.Trumps no Christian by any means by the way, his past actions and words prove that. Or a strategist. If he was he wouldnt of attacked Iran without a act of congress voting to support it, a declaration of war, or even UN backing.

Looking forward to a change of govt in the USA so saner heads can prevail and then im proven wrong about AUKUS.

As for minorities ? You realise we'll need every qualified skilled worker we can to achieve your goal and frankly Nz polytechs cant meet that demand. However many we build. I work for a college mate for many decades as a caretaker. I speak to the faculty members teachers and admin alike. They admit the numbers of those going for those roles even get qualified then its off overseas to Usa, Austraila, UK or Canada, wherever. Most of my family did the same thing lol.

The military faces the same dilemma.Competing against outsourcing and wages and conditions far higher than they can afford. So if we can fill those roles with qualified migrants? Damn right we should!

What I was trying to double back on was that the past cannot be romantic. Todjaeger was correct in that I can speculate on the past based on evidence but I wasn't there. I've got to be honest I don't want to be a soldier and if I was born in the 1920s I would have to be a soldier. There are pros and cons to every generation. In the 1950's I probably would have died on a farm.

It doesn't matter if kiwis were moving one way yesterday if they are moving in other ways today. Kiwis want to work. I just want to jump in the shoes of your average kiwi worker who applies for work only to be greeted by AI algorithms (Seek). They get one email claiming to have progressed to the next stage out of 40 tailored applications.

Even though kiwis want to work nothing more can be revealed about the life of the average worker about what they want to do than what they actually do.

Said another way I agree with everyone who says that swearing is bad but I think I just don't want it that bad because I keep on swearing.

I think that there are kiwis with worse values than I have but I definitely don't have all the good ones and that's stated preferences versus revealed preferences. If kiwis really wanted to be bludgers then they wouldn't be screaming out for the meager employment opportunities.

And then we have the Conservatives coming in saying that kiwis are not all like as hardworking as they say but do you think that they prefer to live in cars or on the streets instead? The answer is absolutely not.

This is just the way that values shift from generation to generation and if everyone decides that kiwis want a high wage and a high technology economy then we would.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

What I was trying to double back on was that the past cannot be romantic. Todjaeger was correct in that I can speculate on the past based on evidence but I wasn't there. I've got to be honest I don't want to be a soldier and if I was born in the 1920s I would have to be a soldier. There are pros and cons to every generation. In the 1950's I probably would have died on a farm.

It doesn't matter if kiwis were moving one way yesterday if they are moving in other ways today. Kiwis want to work. I just want to jump in the shoes of your average kiwi worker who applies for work only to be greeted by AI algorithms (Seek). They get one email claiming to have progressed to the next stage out of 40 tailored applications.

Even though kiwis want to work nothing more can be revealed about the life of the average worker about what they want to do than what they actually do.

Said another way I agree with everyone who says that swearing is bad but I think I just don't want it that bad because I keep on swearing.

I think that there are kiwis with worse values than I have but I definitely don't have all the good ones and that's stated preferences versus revealed preferences. If kiwis really wanted to be bludgers then they wouldn't be screaming out for the meager employment opportunities.

And then we have the Conservatives coming in saying that kiwis are not all like as hardworking as they say but do you think that they prefer to live in cars or on the streets instead? The answer is absolutely not.

This is just the way that values shift from generation to generation and if everyone decides that kiwis want a high wage and a high technology economy then we would.

From my experiance they arent seeking out the low paid jobs. . I've worked since I was 15 in .packhouses, meat works, orchard work, vineyards, farms.retail and cleaning all over the country .

Guess who mostly did that work alongside me? Immigrants. From pacific islanders to chinese, Indians and even the occasional somali now.

Whats the number of migrants in our NZDF for that matter, hundreds? More? Or those descended from migrants.

We cannot afford to kick out those workers or ban future migrants from any of those places. None local will fill those job numbers.

Similar policies the Usa is doing now is starting to bite them in the ass as those farms and factories wont be able to meet the demands asked of them. If Nz did that with agriculture and manufacturing and the military ect we'd be even more in the poo than we are now.