New Coronavirus threat

[ngatimozart]

If there are indeed different strains, then it will make vaccine manufacture more complex. What is not mentioned there, but might be relevant is that Germany, the UK and NY have reported some COVID-19 infected children also suffering a toxic shock syndrome type condition as well. So are such cases being reported on the west coast of the US? If they aren't does it support the argument for different strains? And if so, what is so different about the European strain that it causes such toxic shock syndrome type symptoms in children?

 

[Todjaeger]

If there are indeed different strains, then it will make vaccine manufacture more complex. What is not mentioned there, but might be relevant is that Germany, the UK and NY have reported some COVID-19 infected children also suffering a toxic shock syndrome type condition as well. So are such cases being reported on the west coast of the US? If they aren't does it support the argument for different strains? And if so, what is so different about the European strain that it causes such toxic shock syndrome type symptoms in children?

Could you provide a link to the toxic shock syndrome-like condition you are referring to? I ask because I am aware of symptoms which have presented in US children with COVID-19 which are very similar to Kawasaki disease, and has now started to get referred to as "pediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome". This new syndrome has apparently, unlike Kawasaki disease, sent many of the children who manifest it into a kind of toxic shock, so I suspect it is the condition you are referring to.

If it is, it seems to be impacting both the West and East Coast of the US, with the first case being seen in a 6 m/o boy in Stanford, CA as reported in late April here. An article from 7 May in the Lancet here, mentions a 14 y/o boy in England who died with symptoms of hyperinflammatory shock which present in a very similar manner.

 

[ngatimozart]

Could you provide a link to the toxic shock syndrome-like condition you are referring to? I ask because I am aware of symptoms which have presented in US children with COVID-19 which are very similar to Kawasaki disease, and has now started to get referred to as "pediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome". This new syndrome has apparently, unlike Kawasaki disease, sent many of the children who manifest it into a kind of toxic shock, so I suspect it is the condition you are referring to.

If it is, it seems to be impacting both the West and East Coast of the US, with the first case being seen in a 6 m/o boy in Stanford, CA as reported in late April here. An article from 7 May in the Lancet here, mentions a 14 y/o boy in England who died with symptoms of hyperinflammatory shock which present in a very similar manner.

That's the one I meant. Couldn't quite remember the name.

 

[John Fedup]

I have been trying to get my brother to quit smoking for years and now I just saw this article about smoking and COVID-19. Hopefully he doesn’t see it.

Cosh: Where there's smoke — the cigarettes-and-COVID story is growing harder to ignore

For smokers to do better in ANY health measure taken from ANY sample in ANY situation is astonishing. But now we have two studies showing that smokers do better wit…

ottawacitizen.com

 

[ngatimozart]

I have been trying to get my brother to quit smoking for years and now I just saw this article about smoking and COVID-19. Hopefully he doesn’t see it.

Cosh: Where there's smoke — the cigarettes-and-COVID story is growing harder to ignore

For smokers to do better in ANY health measure taken from ANY sample in ANY situation is astonishing. But now we have two studies showing that smokers do better wit…

ottawacitizen.com

Saw a similar article here, think it was last week. Maybe you should be nice to your bro and shout him some Cuban cigars whilst the pandemic is still active. After the pandemic finishes you can then try and persuade him of the benefits of being smoke free. Tell him bacon tastes 100 times better.

 

[John Fedup]

Saw a similar article here, think it was last week. Maybe you should be nice to your bro and shout him some Cuban cigars whilst the pandemic is still active. After the pandemic finishes you can then try and persuade him of the benefits of being smoke free. Tell him bacon tastes 100 times better.

As an ex-Smoker (40 years now), absolutely everything tastes better. Alas, he is a frigging cement head!

 

[John Fedup]

This piece suggests duration and confined spaces enhance the probability of infection. If correct, restaurants, enclosed shopping malls, and sporting venues are screwed. Same for mass transit and theatres.

The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them

Please read this link to learn about the author and background to these posts. It seems many people are breathing some relief, and I’m not sure why. An epidemic curve has a relatively predictable upslope and once the peak is reached, the back slope can also be predicted. We have robust data from...

www.erinbromage.com

 

[Rob c]

As an ex-Smoker (40 years now), absolutely everything tastes better. Alas, he is a frigging cement head!

Yep I stopped over 40 years ago too, while in the air force. While smoking I found the annual fitness test a real pain, just passing with a real struggle, a couple of years later it was a real breaze to pass.

 

[ngatimozart]

Yep I stopped over 40 years ago too, while in the air force. While smoking I found the annual fitness test a real pain, just passing with a real struggle, a couple of years later it was a real breaze to pass.

The Coopers Test? I used to have a smoke before it and one after it. Same when I did it in the navy. I'd pass, but I wasn't John Walker or Peter Snell. I gave up 20 years ago, 6 years after I left the navy. I used to run the perimeter of Base Wigram in the mornings which was 4.2 miles. The bomb dump was about halfway and on mornings after hard nights in the baggies club, Cpls club or messes, it wouldn't be unusual to see people getting rid of the previous nights frivolity, myself included. We'd have a smoke afterwards finish the run, shower, dress and go to breakfast. Couldn't do that now - bloody kill me; if she who must be obeyed didn't.

 

[ngatimozart]

Newsweek have published an article: Exclusive: As China hoarded medical supplies, the CIA believes it tried to stop the WHO from sounding alarm on the pandemic, that China actively attempted to prevent the WHO from issuing a COVID-19 Pandemic Alert. They cite a CIA source but there are also reports citing German intelligence Covid 19 coronavirus: World Health Organisation denies report that China sought to delay global virus warning. This along with the United Front organising for Chinese nationals worldwide to buy up stocks of PPE, make for coincidences that are more than somewhat suspicious. This is just to convenient. So my question is, what is the actual end game to this ploy? Is it part of a greater plan that is going to be more disruptive and ultimately dangerous for us?

 

[cdxbow]

I have all looked with suspicion at the PRC covid-19 figures and that really weird and somewhat unnatural graph of cases that suddenly goes dead flat. - Foreign Policy claims they have obtained a leaked database detailing 600,000+ cases in China
Leaked Chinese Virus Database Covers 230 Cities, 640,000 Updates

It could be disinformation, but I suspect it is closer to the truth than the party line. . If true the PRC narrative could really fall apart.

 

[John Fedup]

The narrative fell part for the CCP when information about the doctor who raised the alarm, who was disciplined for raising the alarm, and later died became public. Add in their late disclosures about human to human transmission and other BS, it is more than ample reason for the rest of the world to lay a $hitload of grief on China’s CCP. Massive economic pain needs to be applied ASAP.

 

[swerve]

...
That ratio between recoveries and deaths is what I find particularly concerning, since the UK numbers at present roughly work out to one out of every 33 confirmed cases surviving...
...

Which is bollocks, of course. The problem is that for reasons known only to whoever is in charge of collating & publishing the relevant figures in the UK, the number of sufferers from CoViD-19 who've recovered is not included in those figures.

We've recorded 229,705 cases up to May 13th. According to the published data, 33,186 of them have died, and none have recovered in about two months, which is odd, since anyone looking at local news reports will know that many thousands of people have been discharged from hospital after recovering. For example, the head of the NHS in Wales said in a press conference on April 23rd that according to the data he had about 1900 CoViD-19 hospital patients had recovered & been discharged from hospital. That's for <5% of the country's population, over three weeks ago.

 

[Todjaeger]

Which is bollocks, of course. The problem is that for reasons known only to whoever is in charge of collating & publishing the relevant figures in the UK, the number of sufferers from CoViD-19 who've recovered is not included in those figures. A few leak through & get reported to the WHO somehow, but for most it seems to be a case of "Phew! That's a relief! Next!", with no thought of tallying them.

The NHS in Wales stated on April 23rd that according to the data they had about 1900 CoViD-19 hospital patients had recovered & been discharged from hospital. That's for <5% of the country's population, over three weeks ago. Nationwide it must be at least 30 times that now.

So the UK numbers are rubbish. While that is a relief in some ways, in others not so much. That much bad data just makes it harder to determine the impact of both the disease, and potential treatments.

OTOH while there might be bad or missing data, I am much less suspicious of the reasoning for that, than I am regarding the data from certain other countries which I consider suspect.

 

[Todjaeger]

The narrative fell part for the CCP when information about the doctor who raised the alarm, who was disciplined for raising the alarm, and later died became public. Add in their late disclosures about human to human transmission and other BS, it is more than ample reason for the rest of the world to lay a $hitload of grief on China’s CCP. Massive economic pain needs to be applied ASAP.

I would strongly urge people not make a rush to apply punitive measures against China. While I do take COVID-19 data from the PRC with a grain of salt (I will not mention just how large that salt crystal is...) people and countries also need to remember just how much a part of the global economy China is. This is particularly true for countries which have outsourced entire sectors of manufacturing. Taking steps to cause another country to suffer economically as a form of 'punishment' could easily backfire if that same country is also a significant source of products your country imports, or a market that your country exports to.

 

[cdxbow]

The PRC is all ready retaliating against Australia, about it's call for an enquiry into the origins of Covid-19 and for the inclusion of Taiwan in WHO. I actually think China has overplayed her hand with the hyper nationalist sentiments at a time like this, and it will be remembered.

 

[John Fedup]

I would strongly urge people not make a rush to apply punitive measures against China. While I do take COVID-19 data from the PRC with a grain of salt (I will not mention just how large that salt crystal is...) people and countries also need to remember just how much a part of the global economy China is. This is particularly true for countries which have outsourced entire sectors of manufacturing. Taking steps to cause another country to suffer economically as a form of 'punishment' could easily backfire if that same country is also a significant source of products your country imports, or a market that your country exports to.

Short-term suffering will occur to nations heavily dependent on Chinese imports but strong action needs to be taken. It is the only way to deal with the CCP. No more joint ventures between Western corporations and Chinese companies would be a good starting point.

 

[hauritz]

The official Chinese numbers are obvious BS. You just need to look at what is happening in other countries to realise that. I question is really what will happen next. I can't see relations with China returning to normal after this. It is really a case of just how much worse will things get.

In the end it might be simply whether or not the rest of the world needs China more than China needs the rest of the world.

 

[Hone C]

Short-term suffering will occur to nations heavily dependent on Chinese imports but strong action needs to be taken. It is the only way to deal with the CCP. No more joint ventures between Western corporations and Chinese companies would be a good starting point.

I think even before COVID-19 there was a lot of discomfort about the political impacts of having an economy overly dependent on China (read the CCP).
There was already a steady move towards relocating low wage production away from China to SE Asia and Latin America. Although partially due to the trade war it also reflects China's increasing relative labour costs as a result of terrible demographics caused by the one child policy.
The CCP has engineered unsustainable growth by pumping credit into the system, this was bound to end in tears at some point.

In the last few weeks the CCP has managed to piss away decades of soft power and goodwill, the backlash will come but probably only hasten the inevitable. The hyper nationalist card is the one thing the CCP is relying on for long term regime survival.

 

[MrConservative]

The PRC is all ready retaliating against Australia, about it's call for an enquiry into the origins of Covid-19 and for the inclusion of Taiwan in WHO. I actually think China has overplayed her hand with the hyper nationalist sentiments at a time like this, and it will be remembered.

You know things are pretty bad when the UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) has been trying to get a team into China for weeks. They have tried to help coordinate research on the origin of new coronavirus strains from animals and livestock to humans for years. They are just one of a number of major international bodies and reputable NGO's trying to make headway in solving this pandemic who have been given the runaround, silent treatment or been threatened. The China Center for Disease Control has not been forth coming with any useful information to the international community. The CCDC are blaming the outbreak on bats sold at the market. The strange thing is that during the November - December period bats in China are in hibernation are were not sold at the market during that period.

Many countries will be undertaking a tactical retreat from the PRC over the next few years. The risk for them is that any lashing out by the PRC just makes the world more unstable so liberal democracies need to pull together and be resolute in that long accepted international norms and protocols must be kept.

Also why is it that research labs around the world are suffering a spike of cyber attacks in recent weeks? I frankly think the behaviour of the PRC is unconscionable.