MiG News

[nevidimka]

As it turned out, the requirements were so ambitious they could not be reasonably met with a single type of aircraft. Recognizing the problem, MiG OKB Director Artem Mikoyan successfully lobbied to split the PFT specification in two, resulting in 1970 in the "Heavy PFI (Tyazholyi PFI / TPFI)" and "Lightweight PFI (Logiky PFI / LPFI)" specifications. In fact, the US Air Force had come to a similar conclusion, and had followed up the F-15 program with a lightweight fighter effort of their own, which would result in the General Dynamics "F-16 Falcon". Mikoyan was forced to step down as director-general of the MiG OKB after a heart attack, and then died on 9 December 1970. His place was taken by Rostislav Belyakov. Under Belyakov's direction, the MiG bureau went forward on both TPFI and LPFI designs.

Several MiG TPFI design concepts were developed, some resembling the MiG-25 "Foxbat", but with aerodynamic improvements such as wing-body blending, and some resembling the US North American A-5 Vigilante naval attack aircraft. The Sukhoi OKB won the competition for the TPFI requirement, resulting in what would become the Sukhoi Su-27, and the MiG heavy fighter designs were never built.

I was wondering if there is a picture of that MiG TPFI design that never materialised.

http://www.vostokstation.com.au/aircraft/MiG29.htm

 

[macman]

10 Mig 29's are going to Lebanon, apparently in the form of military aid.

Not sure on version - would think that they would need atleast minor upgrades to make them a little more maintenance friendly.
Imagine the Lebanese are going to need quite a bit of help on training & setting up the support installation as well.

Russia hand over to Lebanon 10 fighters MiG-29

МОСКВА, 16 декабря. MOSCOW, December 16. (ИТАР-ТАСС). (ITAR-TASS). Russia hand over to Lebanon 10 fighters MiG-29, said after negotiations in a narrow circle of Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov, the head of Lebanon's Ministry of Defense Elias Murr.

"We very much hope that our negotiations will be constructive and give new impetus to bilateral military and military-technical cooperation. During the talks in a narrow circle we discussed a wide range of issues, including the internal situation in Russia and Lebanon - said Serdyukov, opening the talks.

After their completion, the Russian defense minister announced that he was satisfied with the results. "I am very pleased that our first meeting was held in a positive friendly atmosphere. We have received a list of needs the Lebanese Armed Forces and are willing to consider it in the near future", - stressed Serdyukov.

In turn, Murr thanked the Russian Minister for the warm meeting and looked forward to a repetition of such meetings in future. Murr said that "negotiations in a narrow circle have been fruitful. He informed the Lebanese delegation that" Russia has agreed to transfer to Lebanon 10 MiG-29 fighters. "

As explained in the Lebanese delegation, "the aircraft will be transferred in the form of aid."

Prior to the talks in an enlarged A. Serdyukov handed the Lebanese Defense Ministry colleague medal for strengthening the military commonwealth. " As noted in the presentation, Murr rewarded "for his contribution to the strengthening of bilateral military and military-technical cooperation and for promoting the Russian military contingent in the reconstruction of damaged infrastructure of Lebanon."

http://translate.google.com.au/tran...arch?q=site:arms-tass.su+arms-tass&hl=en&sa=X

 

[baranek]

are these mig-29s going to be new produced or from rusian airforces ?

 

[ROCK45]

New Migs

I still find this strange for a country that flies:

Quote
Currently the Air Force is equipped with Bell UH-1 Iroquois combat helicopters, developed back in the 1950s, and Robinson R44 Raven II civilian helicopters, all of which were supplied by the United States.

In 2007, Beirut took delivery of nine SA342L Gazelle helicopters from the United Arab Emirates.

What would be the purpose really and how much use would they be? Not to mention the years of training to train up pilots and maintenance on fast movers. I would think Lebanon could use aid in a better form then (10) twin engine fighters that would need hundreds of millions of start up dollars followed by some sort of maintenance program to support them. This is the article I found not much different really. Couldn't Russia give them something else?

Russia to 'donate' 10 MiG-29 jet fighters to Lebanon
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20081216/118886270.html

 

[Feanor]

are these mig-29s going to be new produced or from rusian airforces ?

It's a 'donation'.

 

[nevidimka]

This may have something to do with it.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20081110/118219729.html

The Mig's would be a capability boost for Lebanon's air force, but does Lebanon have the finances to service, maintain and train the pilots for those MiG's? Otherwise, its as good as flying coffin's for them.

 

[ROCK45]

finances

I agree with you on the points you made but I take a little further. If Syrian's entire AF is basically useless against Israel's AF what would 10 Fulcrums do besides cost a lot of money for Lebanon. I think a better form of aid or donations could be made that are more helpful.

 

[macman]

Lebanon has finally been recognised by Syria, & atleast have some form relatively stable govt. now.

In order to be taken seriously, as they are looking to do so, some form of semi-decent airforce is a very big thing.
OK, it will never trouble Israel, but atleast they could patrol their own airspace now, & very good for national prestige if they can get them running with moderate efficiency & the pilots moderately well trained.

Might be worth the investment if they put in the money for a basic upgrade process & decent support structure..

---

As for something maybe a little more practical on day to day issues, Russia's got plenty of spare Mi-17's & Mi-24's.
A donation of some of the stuff they've got sitting in hangars, a semi-decent upgrade & maintenance overhaul, & they would be very handy for the Lebanese in keeping order amongst the feuding factions, as well as border patrols...

 

[ROCK45]

prestige

I don't agree to be taken seriously by who? Having a bunch of hand me down Mig-29 doesn't change a government look at Sudan. I would take the government of Lebanon serious if they can end the terrorism, stop the in fighting, stop letting outsiders control them, and really try and work on peace. I could care less if Syria recognizes Lebanon they been using them for thirty years now or more. One fighters cost could buy hundreds of mini generators for power and tons of food & fuel, prestige doesn't get anything.

 

[Feanor]

The thing is that Russia has the fighters in significant quantities, and therefore can afford to give them away. Money on the other hand is more limited.

 

[SkolZkiy]

And can't you IMAGINE that these 10 MiG's would be not with leabanon pilots but with ru-pilots??? like a training ground for pilots =) russia now has no conflicts with need to use fighters =)))))

 

[ROCK45]

Russian pilots

SkolZkiy
And can't you IMAGINE that these 10 MiG's would be not with leabanon pilots but with ru-pilots??

No not really what would be the point supplying advisers or merc pilots are costly. What I imagine if this venture ever takes place in the first place is Iranian involvement. Then the jets become targets and more get people killed because of there presents. Sending medical, food, etc is more useful then high performance fighters. Besides if the fighters weren't vowed to be used against Israel they would only be blown up by one of the terror groups anyway, right? The Lebanese Air Force would have never had control over them anyway so what's the point. If Russia wanted to mess with Israel just give the Fulcrums to Syria there crappy AF could use them. Logically it makes more sense since they fly the same type and up to a point can support the free Fulcrums of peace.

 

[ASFC]

The point is that Lebanon is after a small number of Fighter Jets/Trainers for Ground Attack Roles and Air Policing, but they cannot afford to buy them. Whilst I am sure Russia has other motives for giving them these jets, if the Lebanese Govt put 'feelers' out to other countries for surplus/cheap jets and IF Russia was the only country to respond then we can't blame the LAF if they take them, given that having a small combat arm is a stated aim.

 

[Feanor]

The point is that Lebanon is after a small number of Fighter Jets/Trainers for Ground Attack Roles and Air Policing, but they cannot afford to buy them. Whilst I am sure Russia has other motives for giving them these jets, if the Lebanese Govt put 'feelers' out to other countries for surplus/cheap jets and IF Russia was the only country to respond then we can't blame the LAF if they take them, given that having a small combat arm is a stated aim.

Especially given that they're free. Naturally Russia is counting on eventual modenization and maintenance contracts. But that's in the mid-long run. And those would be necessary for any fighters.

 

[ROCK45]

Purpose

Hi ASFC
I feel that this topic is going political "what purpose does Lebanon" a little country in ruins stuck in a middle of a nasty situation need costly Mig-29 Fulcrums. I want to keep this thread on the Mig-29 topics or since the thread was changed to MIG News now. If you want to start a new thread to disgust this I will add to it or PM me. Thanks

 

[nevidimka]

MiG 35 FINAL AVATAR, and the various antenna's including the new Italian made Jammer antennas.

I'm quite dissapointed to see the increase in hardpoints to be stacked up all on the wings. Can the wings with that many weapon stores actually provide enough lift like the original models? Would the maneuverability affected by these additions?

 

[ROCK45]

maneuverability

Maneuverability suffers on all platforms once added weapons stores are attached. Even the good turning Fulcrum would suffer but what's important here with the added hard points are options. Now the Fulcrum can be rigged with (2) large drop tanks, (2) LGB, and (4) missiles (2)AA-12/(2)A-11, and perform a mission other then simple point defense fighter. Long range fighter patrol (4) drop tanks and (4) missiles, add in the new internal fuel cells and the Fulcrum is a changed fighter.

 

[nevidimka]

Even though my Icon shows a flanker, the Original MiG 29A IMO is the most beautiful/elegant fighter design of all fighters. The choice of design for its LERX, wing-tail, and vertical tail were just simply beautiful, but the Fulcrum in this final version has morphed into something beyond recognition of that.

It is just sad, the improvements of the fulcrum couldn't be made on its original design due to lack of space. It seems like the original design paid the price for aesthetics.

 

[ROCK45]

Fulcrum

Even know I come down sometimes heavy on Russian production and refuse to buy into the hype of what certain weapons etc can do I'm a huge Fulcrum fan. I totally agree it's a beautiful aircraft and like most Russian aircraft suffer with weight handicaps. The lack of space forced the added fuel spine which to me makes the aircraft ugly on the SMT types but understand it was needed.

One would think using lighter construction materials that have a better weighting savings could be had team with slightly more powerful engines could carry the Fulcrums into the future. The problem is no new construction basically no chance to build in weight savings.

 

[Haavarla]

Even know I come down sometimes heavy on Russian production and refuse to buy into the hype of what certain weapons etc can do I'm a huge Fulcrum fan. I totally agree it's a beautiful aircraft and like most Russian aircraft suffer with weight handicaps. The lack of space forced the added fuel spine which to me makes the aircraft ugly on the SMT types but understand it was needed.

One would think using lighter construction materials that have a better weighting savings could be had team with slightly more powerful engines could carry the Fulcrums into the future. The problem is no new construction basically no chance to build in weight savings.

Would'n the increased fuel capasity, the RD-33MK engine and the new radar in the Mig-35 take some blame for not reducing the weight?