Malaysian Army/Land forces discussions

[LeClerc]

yeah,as we all know,only Paskal posessed that AK 101.mainly for use during training.some info about AK 101:

Weight 3.4 kg (7.5 lbs) w/o magazine
Length 943 mm (37.13 in) with stock extended / 700 mm (27.56 in) with stock folded
Barrel length 415 mm (16.34 in)
Cartridge 5.56x45mm NATO
Action Gas-actuated, rotating bolt
Rate of fire 650 rds/min
Muzzle velocity 920 m/s
Effective range 500 m
Feed system 30 round magazine
Sights Adjustable Iron Sights, Equipped with optical plate for attaching various scopes

 

[LeClerc]

it is widely reported recently that malaysian army has added new radars into their inventory.any comment on this matter??

 

[STURM]

2 EADS TRML-3D radars have been delivered to provide early alerting for air defence units. There are also a number of Ericsson Giraffe radars.

 

[tosho daimos]

any infos on VERA-E in MAF inventories?

 

[malayphil]

Here's a video link for the 51 RAD test firing their rockets:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gzN-ZBdRgs

I saw it at another forum that also mentioned a 52 RAD. I know the 51st become operational about a year ago and that there has been plans for a second MLRS regiment. Does anyone know if there is already a 52nd?

MALAYSIA must not buy MLRS it's not needed by their army.

MALAYSIA should concentrate in training more special forces.Including purchasing body armour and fast transport helicopters.Even C-130's the newest edition.

 

[STURM]

Would appreciate some help with the following. Have been searching online but cant find any references.

1. The year the FN SLR and Sterling entered service and the quantities
bought.
2. Was the M-79 ever issued to the army.
3. Apart from Bedfords, Scammels, Bren carriers and small arms, what else was given by the British army after independance.
4. The Bren 7.62mm. What it rechambered from ex-British army Brens or acquired new.
5. Prior to the Browning 9mm what pistol was issued.

 

[shihido]

Hi Guys, I'm new to this forum.

Just skimmed through this thread while doing some research.

I just wanna ask if anyone has a definitive structure of the Malaysian Armed Forces (Angkatan Tentera Malaysia). The information i found online is largely contradictory, but most probable poorly researched and outdated.

1)Does anyone know the current Structure of the MAF?

2)Do they have 4 Divisions or 5?

3)And which divisions are on which part of Malaysia (East or West)?

4)Are the Divisions Combined Arms? ( I heard that only one was, is it to gurad east Malaysia)

5)Then what about the other facets of the army? Do they have combat engineers, Signallers, Artilery? I bet they probably do, but are these within the divisions or are they independant?

6)And since Malaysia is relatively large, do the divisions train independantly of each other? Or do the specialty facets (i.e. Combat Engineers) train centrally but are allocated to different divisions.

I'm from singapore and am quite familiar with the situation here but cant really comprehend how Malaysia deals with defence...

:unknown

 

[DavidDCM]

Hi, my answer is written in fat and italic.

Hi Guys, I'm new to this forum.

Just skimmed through this thread while doing some research.

I just wanna ask if anyone has a definitive structure of the Malaysian Armed Forces (Angkatan Tentera Malaysia). The information i found online is largely contradictory, but most probable poorly researched and outdated.

1)Does anyone know the current Structure of the MAF?

2)Do they have 4 Divisions or 5?
4 divisions plus independent units

3)And which divisions are on which part of Malaysia (East or West)?
1st division in East Malaysia, 2nd, 3rd and 4th in West Malaysia

4)Are the Divisions Combined Arms? ( I heard that only one was, is it to gurad east Malaysia)
Mostly light infantry brigades. Each division has one "armored" batallion which is made of Sibmas AFSV-90 and Condor APC. The 3rd division also has one brigade of mechanized infantry with ACV-300.

5)Then what about the other facets of the army? Do they have combat engineers, Signallers, Artilery? I bet they probably do, but are these within the divisions or are they independant?
Yes, every division has their own combat support assets including artillery (except for the 2nd division). But there exist at least two independent artillery units as well (one with Astros-2 MLRS, one with 155 mm G5 howitzer). Other independent units are the 10th para brigade, the 11th armoured regiment (PT-91M) and the army special forces.

6)And since Malaysia is relatively large, do the divisions train independantly of each other? Or do the specialty facets (i.e. Combat Engineers) train centrally but are allocated to different divisions.
Don't know
I'm from singapore and am quite familiar with the situation here but cant really comprehend how Malaysia deals with defence...

:unknown

Regards

 

[STURM]

There are 4 divisions unders the Field Army HQ [ Corps HQ]. One division is based in East Malaysia. The army is currently very infantry heavy, some 20 odd infantry battallions, a legacy of its counter insurgency days. It was only recently, that brigade size exercises were done, i'm not sure if a divisional exercise has ever been done. The army's main forte, during the counter insurgency period was platoon and company level sweeps. Anything larger was no required due to the nature of the threat and terrain. This is similiar to Thailand and Indonesia who's main priority was also counter insurgency, unlike Singapore.

The British model is followed, as a result a regiment of artillery attached to an infanty battalion could just mean a battery of 6 guns. Or at a higher level could mean 3 batteries of guns, like the G-5 155mm regiment. A 2nd regiment of ASTROS is being formed.

 

[Dzirhan]

Most of David's info is correct save for the Astros regt which now forms part of 3 Div. 3rd Div is in the process of becoming a Combined Arms Div with plans for 2 Div as well. Given the scattered locations of troops, the Divisions largely train independantly save for the large-scale tri-service Pahlawan series exercises which sometimes involves elements from all three divisions in Peninsular Malaysia if the exercise is held in the Peninsular. All the divisions have a mix of support troops assigned to them just like any other army based on their requirements.

 

[STURM]

Dzirhan, I believe that its not only the scattered locations of units that prevent large scale exercises. Until recently, there was also a shortage of personnel trained to handle larger sized formations in exercises. For the past 30 odd years until the 90's, even brigade size exercises were rare.

 

[Dzirhan]

That's true on the personnel, but also a combination of budget and training space, Some where in 2001-2003 (can't recall the year), there was a Pahlawan exercise which involved 2 Div and 3 Div in a repelling a hypothetical invasion from Kota Bharu.

 

[DavidDCM]

Are Malaysian high-ranking officers sent to training schools in other countries so that they learn to handle such big operations?

Dzirhan, so will the 56 ACV-300 ordered last year go to the 3rd division?

 

[Dzirhan]

We have our own school also (MAF Defence College) but Generals do get sent to the schools in Pakistan and US.

Edit: Based on MOD handout given at DSA 2008, they are going to 4th Mech, reproduced below:

1. Supply and Delivery of 48 units Armored Carrier Vehicle (ACV) 300 Adnan for the Malaysian Army

Contractor: DRB-Hicom Defence Technologies Sdn. Bhd. (DEFTECH)

Contract Value: RM 425,394,143.89

Delivery: 2008-2010

Quantity:

12 Units Infantry Fighting Vehicle I
8 Units Infantry Fighting Vehicle II
8 Units Infantry Fighting Vehicle III(A)
4 Units Anti-Armour Vehicle
2 Units Armoured Vehicle Signal
4 Units Armoured Vehicle Recovery
10 Units Armoured Vehicle Fitter

Special Features: Radio Fastnet, Spall Liners and Mine Protection Kit

Background:

In 2000, the government of Malaysia signed a contract to procure 211 units of ACV-300 Adnan manufactured by FNSS, Turkey. Out of 211 Units, 134 were manufactured and assembled in Turkey while the balance was assembled in Malaysia by Deftech. By 2004, all these vehicles have been supplied to the Malaysian Army.

The Acquisition of 48 units of ACV-300 Adnan is the continuation of the above project to fulfill the requirement of the Mechanized Brigade. The new ACV-300 Adnan can perform both conventional and peacekeeping operations.

Implementation Schedule:

The effective date of the contract is upon the signing of the Letter of Acceptance by the Seller

The Delivery schedule for the ACV-300 Adnan is 20 months from the date of the signing of the contract and the last delivery will be 32 months.

2. Supply and Delivery of 8 units ACV-S 300 Adnan Mortar Carrier for Malaysian Army


Contractor: DRB-Hicom Defence Technologies Sdn. Bhd.

Contract Value: RM 52,560,000.00

Type of Contract: Direct Negotiation

Delivery: As Per Required by Government, before 31st December 2009

Note: To carry TDA Armements SA 2R2M 120mm Mortar.

 

[shihido]

Hi, my answer is written in fat and italic.



Regards

Hey, Thanks alot. The information did help me greatly and is consistent with what i found during my research. i simply was worried for random discrepancies in the information i found.

Also, do you think 4 divisions is sufficient for the defence of malaysia. Especially in East Malaysia where they only have 1 brigade while the land mass that is much greater than that of West Malaysia.
Or is it because the states of Sabah and Sarawak are not as developed and populated as West Malaysia.

 

[STURM]

'Also, do you think 4 divisions is sufficient for the defence of malaysia. Especially in East Malaysia where they only have 1 brigade while the land mass that is much greater than that of West Malaysia.''

Given the threat enviroment, I believe 4 divisions are sufficient but not in their present form however. Theres only so much people an all volunteer army can attract from a population of 26 million. As I mentioned, because of its pedigree, the army is infantry heavy. I've always felt that some battalions should be converted and retrained into specialist combat engineer and other support units. Though the army's firepower has improved significantly,
engineering and logistics units have not received the same attention.

During a recent interview on TV, a divisional commander said thats there's now more awareness and interest in joining the army. He also said that where previously 2-300 would show up for a recruitment drive, now triple that number would show up. This is a far cry from the 90's, when many army units were understrenght.

 

[renjer]

Also, do you think 4 divisions is sufficient for the defence of malaysia. Especially in East Malaysia where they only have 1 brigade while the land mass that is much greater than that of West Malaysia.
Or is it because the states of Sabah and Sarawak are not as developed and populated as West Malaysia.

East Malaysia has the 3rd (Kuching), 5th (Kota Kinabalu) and 9th (Sibu) brigades that form the 1st Infantry Division.

The lesser number of troops in EM is a concern and there have been several commanders who have voiced this out. One out-going 5th Bde commander recommended that an additional brigade be assigned to cover the eastern portion Sabah. The response appears to be the setting up of an ATB formation in Tawau headed by a Brigadier General.

In the past EM was pronouncedly less developed than WM. Particularly so in terms of the road network between towns. This meant that the army could concentrate its resources to defend large population concentrations and economic centres as well as harbours and airports. While leaving aside major thorough fares. Any enemy force that chooses not to enter the vital areas and stay in the jungle could be dealt with by reinforcements coming in from WM.

However, the development situation is changing. This will mean more military resources will eventually be redeployed to EM.

 

[renjer]

Given the threat enviroment, I believe 4 divisions are sufficient ...

Yes ...

... but not in their present form however.

... and yes again.

... the army is infantry heavy. I've always felt that some battalions should be converted and retrained into specialist combat engineer and other support units. Though the army's firepower has improved significantly, engineering and logistics units have not received the same attention.

The army has a ways to go before its firepower becomes adequate. I would like to see MLRS and MR-SAM units in each of the 4 divisions.

As you mentioned, definitely more combat engineering resources. It was disappointing that we only got 3 MID-Ms from Poland. Although it might be possible for AW units to undertake certain combat engineer duties. Some field engineering could even be 'outsourced' to the civil defence department.

 

[STURM]

renjer, when i said ''4 divisions are sufficient but not their present form'' , what I meant was that they have to be trimmed, re-trained to deal with non-traditional threats. We need to develop a doctrine to deal with specific threats we are likely to encounter.
What I have in mind is the unrest in Southern Thailand and the ongoing problems in Mindanao and the possibility it might spill over, not a full fledged invasion by another country. Before we consider more firepower, we should concentrate on equipping infantry units with basics such as night vision and body armour. Just as important is the need to allowing commanders more freeway when conducting exercises and training. In addition to more realistic, un-scripted exercises, more resources should be given for live firing on a more regular basis.

I'm totally against medium range SAMs as I believe the way to go is for GAPU to have sufficient MANPADS to provide all brigades with low level protection. At the moment, GAPU has only 2 regiments with MANPADs and the Anza batttery attached to 10th Para. Apart from 2 TRS-3Ds and 3 Giraffes, GAPU has no alerting devices.


I

 

[renjer]

... what I meant was that they have to be trimmed, re-trained to deal with non-traditional threats. We need to develop a doctrine to deal with specific threats we are likely to encounter. What I have in mind is the unrest in Southern Thailand and the ongoing problems in Mindanao and the possibility it might spill over ...

Why should the army be retrained for this? We have the police's General Operations Force with 18 infantry battalion equivalents plus the commandoes of VAT69. They did quite well in communist insurgency and will most likely prove adequate to handle your scenarios.

... a full fledged invasion by another country.

The army is the correct national agency to handle this and should be armed accordingly.

I'm totally against medium range SAMs as I believe the way to go is for GAPU to have sufficient MANPADS to provide all brigades with low level protection.

I respect your opinion. In my view, point defence should be handled by the manuver units and therefore shoulder-fired SAM or MANPADS should be issued to them. GAPU should handle area defence.

At the moment, GAPU has only 2 regiments with MANPADs and the Anza batttery attached to 10th Para. Apart from 2 TRS-3Ds and 3 Giraffes, GAPU has no alerting devices.

These are current inadequacies. They can be rectified.