Lightest Combat Aircraft

A

adsH

New Member
Re: Lightest Combat Aircraft!

aaaditya said:
latest is that india is considering a maritime variant of falcon 900ex as an interim measure.(source bharat rakshak,protonriver):coffee
Click to expand...
Why don't you get a Turbo prop (Cheaper then Jets) and get BAe to install the Nimrod MRA4 systems. has IAF got C-130s or equivalent AC you could put the Nimrod's tech on the C-130's i mean MRA4 is way better then most available systems.
 
A

aaaditya

New Member
Re: Lightest Combat Aircraft!

the falcon are considered cheaper than the orions and the other option offered is the french atr75-500 offered for both navy and coast guard(coast guard was particularly interested in it,france also offered to set up a production line in india with hal for manufacturing this aircraft).:coffee
 
K

kashifshahzad

Banned Member
Re: LCA Milestone

vrus said:
On the 8th of May, the LCA completed 400 test flights !

See this link :-

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=2581
Click to expand...
Vrus when this plane is going to enter the IAF i mean when the first batch of this plane will be included in the IAF .Was there a need for that many test flights what the HAL wants to test in that much test flights . can you tell me that that much test flights are taken by every counrty when they manufacture a net AC ?
 
S

srirangan

Banned Member
Re: LCA Milestone

The IAF had placed an order for the LCA this February. It was an order for 40 fighters, expected to be delivered by 2007-08. And yes the test flights are required, which is why they are being done. Currently 3 versions of the LCA have been tested.
 
K

kashifshahzad

Banned Member
Re: LCA Milestone

srirangan said:
The IAF had placed an order for the LCA this February. It was an order for 40 fighters, expected to be delivered by 2007-08. And yes the test flights are required, which is why they are being done. Currently 3 versions of the LCA have been tested.
Click to expand...
One must be Fighter/intercepter second must be two seater trainer which is the third version???
 
P

P.A.F

New Member
no they are all combat aircraft. there not trainers buddy. the airframe and systems layout might be different.
 
webmaster

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
What I want to know is why is Indian Airforce going for only 20 jets?


Orders for LCA by Air Force

No orders have been placed for procurement of Light Combat Aircraft Tejas for the Air Force since the project is in development phase. Air Force has, however, indicated their interest in procuring 20 LCAs in the initial operation clearance configuration.

This information was given by the Defence Minister Shri Pranab Mukherjee in a written reply to Shri Pramod Mahajan in Rajya Sabha today.

URL of this article:
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_002384.shtml
Click to expand...
</FONT>
 
webmaster

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
Indian Press Information Bureau didn't say nothing about first batch of 40... oh well.

No orders have been placed for procurement of Light Combat Aircraft Tejas for the Air Force since the project is in development phase. Air Force has, however, indicated their interest in procuring 20 LCAs in the initial operation clearance configuration.
Click to expand...
 
S

srirangan

Banned Member
The PIB is the official transcripter of what's being said in the Parliament.
The 40 order was announced to the press in Feb by the IAF.
 
A

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys can some one explain the implications of this system.
ARDE develops safe ejector system for LCA

In a significant achievement, the Pune-based premier Armament Research and Development Establishment has developed an innovative high-tech line-charged Canopy Severance System for the Light Combat Aircraft, for safe ejection of the pilot. Earlier, the ARDE had successfully produced the 'Pinaka' Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher System for the Indian armed forces, to give it concentrated high volume firepower to destroy enemy targets as demanded by the top brass of the Indian army.

After nearly 40 test trials, Martin Baker AIC Co, London, arguably the top organisation in the world to certify the safety pilot ejection system, has certified commercial production of canopy severance system. The sophisticated system is technologically so advanced that it requires mere milliseconds to eject the pilot to safety in case of a crash.

"While in the conventional system, the entire canopy flies off and can result in an injury to the pilot, in the newly indigenously developed system, only a certain portion of the canopy which is line-charged, gets severed. This absolutely minimises injury to the pilot," scientist Dr Sudharshan Kumar Salwan, director, ARDE, said He stressed that no aircraft in the world had this kind of live system which could be operated from outside the aircraft, especially when the pilot was unconscious due to some injuries or in the event of crash-landing.

According to scientist Dr K S Rajgopal, head of the weapons system, ARDE, the Canopy Severance System could be operated by an external initiator. "The initiator generates a detonation wave which is transmitted in a totally contained manner to a line charger pasted along the canopy and thus cutting it peripherally. This helps in rescuing the pilot," he explained. Salwan said after the new system was tested at Martin Bakers, UK, recently, it had been approved for use in the LCA.

Two LCAs fitted with the system were already in operation for the Indian Army, he disclosed, adding that army authorities were satisfied with its functional operation. Pointing out that the minimum time in the range of milliseconds should be used in saving the pilot in distress, he pointed out that while the conventional ejection system was 95 per cent successful, the new system would take it to 99.9 per cent.

Salwan said the system was fitted with sophisticated sensors to achieve the expected results as successfully demonstrated in the UK. He said the army chief, General Ved Prakash Malik, during his recent visit to the ARDE was fully satisfied with the new system. With the green signal obtained from the Defence Research and Development Organisation, which sets the target and supervises the working of ARDE and 40 other armament group of labs servicing the Army, Navy and Air Force, commercial production of the new canopy system for the use of the Indian armed forces will commence shortly, Salwan said.

Asked if it will also be sold in the international market, he said after meeting the requirements of the Indian armed forces, its business potential in the world market will be considered.
http://www.geocities.com/siafdu/lcaa.html:coffee
 
A

adsH

New Member
aaaditya said:
hey guys can some one explain the implications of this system.
ARDE develops safe ejector system for LCA




"While in the conventional system, the entire canopy flies off and can result in an injury to the pilot, in the newly indigenously developed system, only a certain portion of the canopy which is line-charged, gets severed. This absolutely minimises injury to the pilot," scientist Dr Sudharshan Kumar Salwan, director, ARDE, said He stressed that no aircraft in the world had this kind of live system which could be operated from outside the aircraft, especially when the pilot was unconscious due to some injuries or in the event of crash-landing.
Click to expand...
Could you elaborate further on this. What part of the Canopy Breaks Away and Severs Itself. The F-16 Buble Canopy Severs completely (i think). while the Hawk Jet system Breaks Away. And exactly Who has Developed the System, Martin Baker or the ARDE, if ARDE has developed the System then why is Martin Baker Testing it. I wouldn't be too sure the Newer F-16 has some impressive Pilot survival Systems.
 
A

aaaditya

New Member
well adsh iam sorry i cannot answere the first part as to which part of the canopy shatters as this news is quite new to me and iam not that experienced in these matters(that is the reason i posted this article so that i can find out more about it).however on reading the article properly i noticed a couple of interesting lines.
(According to scientist Dr K S Rajgopal, head of the weapons system, ARDE, the Canopy Severance System could be operated by an external initiator. "The initiator generates a detonation wave which is transmitted in a totally contained manner to a line charger pasted along the canopy and thus cutting it peripherally. This helps in rescuing the pilot," he explained. Salwan said after the new system was tested at Martin Bakers, UK, recently, it had been approved for use in the LCA. )

according to oxford dictionary periphery means an area just inside or outside along the boundary.

by the way i dont see anything in the canopy system being tested by martin baker,because even though india is trying to develop many systems indigenously it still does not have adeqate test facilities,for example kaveri engine though developed in india is being tested in russia,the flight control software of lca was tested on a f-16 by lockheed martin.this i dont think is unique in any way(the canopy system was designed by arde,there are some mistakes in this article though):coffee
 
H

highsea

New Member
Well, obviously it's the area behind the bow that separates. This is typical of most any any aircraft with a bow in the canopy. The F-16 separates the entire canopy, because it was decided to eliminate the bow for visibility.

One thing about it, leaving the front portion intact means that the HUD doesn't have to withstand the full force of the airstream during an ejection. About the last thing the pilot needs is to be hit in the face with the HUD right before punching out.
 
G

Gremlin29

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
"Usually", the line the charge sytems are employed on canopies that slide rather than hinge like a clamshell. F-15 and F-16 as an example, utilize a clamshell canopy, the Harrier being an example of a sliding canopy. A6 Intruder pilots actually punch through the canopy without the benefit of a line charge, the canopy does not seperate during the ejection sequence. Apparently there have been some nasty accidents in the early days when sliding canopies jammed half open with the frame directly over the pilots head. With a clamshell canopy, once the canopy seal is popped the slipstream is a sufficient enough force to seperate the canopy but even still the hinges are specifically designed to allow seperation during ejection. I got my ACES II card for the F-15 and F-16 many years ago, the ejection mechanism and sequence on modern warplanes is actually a pretty fascinating mini-orchestra of events.


Not sure if this is specific enough adsH, but the charge simply explodes a hole in the canopy of sufficient size to passage of the pilot and seat.
 
A

ajay_ijn

New Member
The IAF had placed an order for the LCA this February. It was an order for 40 fighters, expected to be delivered by 2007-08. And yes the test flights are required, which is why they are being done. Currently 3 versions of the LCA have been tested.
Click to expand...
It will not be delievered by 2007/8 but it will delievered by 2011.

The Firt LCA is to be inducted by 2007/8.
Still the no. of Flight tests are just 400+ but it needs somewhere about 3000 for Certifying the aircraft.
One question will IAF be really interested or eager to use LCA (forgetting that its indigenous)?
There is only one way LCA can become favourite for IAF,its Combat Readiness and Easy Maintainence or overhauling,And it must not be like the Mig-21 (Flying coffin).
 
A

aaaditya

New Member
1)mig 21 in its time was perhalps one of the best combat aircraft in the world,if today it is considered to be a flying coffin it is entirely the fault of indian airforce(lack of ajt's and forcing the rookie pilots to train on such a highly demanding machine,using the aircraft as a frontline jet even though it is past its retirement age,poor maintainence system,lack of the spares due to aircraft no longer remaining in production)

2)india should be proud of lca even if it sees half the glorious service of mig21.

3)ajay ,not all 3000 tests are required for lca to be inducted around 1500 of those tests are for initial operational clearance thats the reason why initially 40 are being acquired,during the ioc tests the aircraft will be integrated to the iaf,tactics developed for it,pilots will get hands on experience for flying the aircraft.these will take quite a few tests but will be carried out quickly since there are more aircrafts now(AN EXAMPLE IS GRIPEN,RAFALE,EF2000 ALL THESE MODERN AIRCRAFTS WERE INDUCTED IN SMALL NUMBERS THEN OPERATIONAL CLEARANCE WERE CARRIED OUT AND ONCE THE AIRFORCE MANAGED TO COMPLETELY FINETUNE AND INTEGRATE THEM THEY WERE INDUCTED IN BULK)

4)the lca was designed for ease of operation and maintainence more importantly it was designed to be cheaper but comparable to any modern fourth generation jet,that is the reason why there is so much emphasis on indigenisation.
5)indian airforce has always encouraged indigenisation,for example just look at the number of indigenous aircrafts iaf used(ht2,marut,hpt32,hjt16,krishak,alh dhruv)
6)iaf went for marut even though it was powered by a foreign engine and also the engine was underpowered about 147 were inducted in iaf(marut proved its worth in ground attack capabilities)
7)indian airforce realising that marut was aerodynamically comparable to any western jet of that time recommended an uprated engine however the western nation from whom the engine was to be sourced refused to sell the engine or its technology to india,the gorvement then decided to shelf the project instead of going for an indigenous engine( EVEN THOUGH AN UPRATED VARIANT OF THE ADOUR ENGINE WAS UNDER DEVELOPMENT)
8)8)development of an indigenous engine would be essential for lca's success ,but also required is government's determination,the iaf will always accept it.:coffee
 
A

ajay_ijn

New Member
2)india should be proud of lca even if it sees half the glorious service of mig21.
Click to expand...
Agreed Mig-21 was a good one was infact the best one .
when it became old Airforce must remove them from service but they did not which gave a bad name to Mig-21s as Flying Coffins.

I wanted to say that LCA must have easy maintainence and good combat readiness.For example during 90's Mig-29 engines became very unrealiable and it gave problems regularly.

I don't want to see LCA with such a kind of problems.
F-404 engines will be very good but coming to kaveri,I seriously doubt about Kaveri.

development of an indigenous engine would be essential for lca's success ,but also required is government's determination,the iaf will always accept it.
Click to expand...
what u meant about "IAF will always accept it"?
Question here is not accepting.
IAF Accepted Mig-29 and also Miarge-2000 but ask an IAF pilot or mechanic etc they will say Mirage-2000 is much better.

)the lca was designed for ease of operation and maintainence more importantly it was designed to be cheaper but comparable to any modern fourth generation jet,that is the reason why there is so much emphasis on indigenisation.
Click to expand...
Why are comparing its cost with an Fourth Generation Aircraft.
LCA by no way can match a fourth generation aircraft capability.
U Can Compare it with the cost of J-10,JF-17,Mig-21Bison etc.

Cost is not that important factor to consider if performance is excellent.

3)ajay ,not all 3000 tests are required for lca to be inducted around 1500 of those tests are for initial operational clearance thats the reason why initially 40 are being acquired,during the ioc tests the aircraft will be integrated to the iaf,tactics developed for it,pilots will get hands on experience for flying the aircraft.these will take quite a few tests but will be carried out quickly since there are more aircrafts now(AN EXAMPLE IS GRIPEN,RAFALE,EF2000 ALL THESE MODERN AIRCRAFTS WERE INDUCTED IN SMALL NUMBERS THEN OPERATIONAL CLEARANCE WERE CARRIED OUT AND ONCE THE AIRFORCE MANAGED TO COMPLETELY FINETUNE AND INTEGRATE THEM THEY WERE INDUCTED IN BULK)
Click to expand...
May be even 1500 tests would be difficult.
2001 to 2005 400 tests happened
from 2005 to 2008 1100 tests must happen
Is that possible and that too with India Defence Organisations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top