KAI KF-21

TayJG said:
That's good for them. It pains me to see weapons stored under the wings of an aircraft that has the generic look of the most popular design for 5th generation fight jets.
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Having weapons bays on 5th Gen Jets is important, yes, but they are heavily restricted to what weapons can be carried and have a relatively light loadout. The ability to carry a much heavier weapons load externally is also very important. You would need to build an aircraft the size of an F-111 to be able to match the max weapons load of a F-35, internally.
 
Redlands18 said:
Having weapons bays on 5th Gen Jets is important, yes, but they are heavily restricted to what weapons can be carried and have a relatively light loadout. The ability to carry a much heavier weapons load externally is also very important. You would need to build an aircraft the size of an F-111 to be able to match the max weapons load of a F-35, internally.
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No one says that you have to do a combat air patrol and destroy enemy ground targets on the same day. You clear the skies first using internal weapons, then you do the bomb trucking with external weapons if necessary.
 
TayJG said:
No one says that you have to do a combat air patrol and destroy enemy ground targets on the same day. You clear the skies first using internal weapons, then you do the bomb trucking with external weapons if necessary.
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The 1991 Gulf War is a great example of how to do an Air campaign against a nation with a comprehensive AD Network. Day1-2 you use your LO aircraft and LR missiles to take out Command and Control, that then allows your less stealthy assets to be used as Bomb Trucks from day 2/3+. A similar campaign conducted now would see only internal weapons armed F-22s, F-35s and B-2s as well as LR missiles used on day1-2, then increasingly you would see F-35s with external weapons loads used.
I think you are getting to fixated on the importance of the Weapons bay. The F-35A can carry an internal load of about 2.5t on 4 stations, that is not a great weapons load for a 25t Jet Fighter. Using external stations(6) as well a F-35A can carry 8.2t all up on 10 stations a far better weapons load and still one of the stealthiest fighters flying. Not to mention that the internal stations are restricted by size and weight.
 
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Redlands18 said:
The 1991 Gulf War is a great example of how to do an Air campaign against a nation with a comprehensive AD Network. Day1-2 you use your LO aircraft and LR missiles to take out Command and Control, that then allows your less stealthy assets to be used as Bomb Trucks from day 2/3+. A similar campaign conducted now would see only internal weapons armed F-22s, F-35s and B-2s as well as LR missiles used on day1-2, then increasingly you would see F-35s with external weapons loads used.
I think you are getting to fixated on the importance of the Weapons bay. The F-35A can carry an internal load of about 2.5t on 4 stations, that is not a great weapons load for a 25t Jet Fighter. Using external stations(6) as well a F-35A can carry 8.2t all up on 10 stations a far better weapons load and still one of the stealthiest fighters flying. Not to mention that the internal stations are restricted by size and weight.
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It's funny, it seems like you made my point for me in the first paragraph, then proceeded to say how I'm wrong. :D

Funny how that works. I maintain (and apparently the Korean government agrees with me) that the internal bay is integral for the KF-21.

You're doing a bit of straw man arguing here. Having an internal bay does not negate carrying weapons externally once air superiority is gained.
 
TayJG said:
Did you see my point, that I was trying to figure out what the reason was for building KF-21 with no internal weapons bay?
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I answered a specific point you made. That was deliberate. I'm not interested in discussing what you're asking.
 
TayJG said:
It's funny, it seems like you made my point for me in the first paragraph, then proceeded to say how I'm wrong. :D

Funny how that works. I maintain (and apparently the Korean government agrees with me) that the internal bay is integral for the KF-21.

You're doing a bit of straw man arguing here. Having an internal bay does not negate carrying weapons externally once air superiority is gained.
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You know very little an people here are trying to educate you. There are threads in the Air Force and Aviation forum that specifically cover the F-35 and low observable aircraft.

WRT the KF-21 KAI and the ROKAF have a specific set of priorities that they are following and an internal weapons bay will be included in a following variant. They want to have it flight testing and achieving IOC (Initial Operating Capability) first. That's how they planned it.
 
ngatimozart said:
You know very little an people here are trying to educate you. There are threads in the Air Force and Aviation forum that specifically cover the F-35 and low observable aircraft.

WRT the KF-21 KAI and the ROKAF have a specific set of priorities that they are following and an internal weapons bay will be included in a following variant. They want to have it flight testing and achieving IOC (Initial Operating Capability) first. That's how they planned it.
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You have very little intelligence and you couldn't educate a child. Pointing out that there is an F-35 and low observable aircraft threads doesn't prove a single thing.

It was already said that KF-21 Block 2 will have an internal weapons bay and I confirmed it, you're merely repeating that and acting like you said something new.

@TayJG

This is a final warning ..... show some respect. Other posters are trying to answer your question or provide some direction. Youa appear to treat these respose with contempt or our of context.

Action will be taken if you continue.

alexsa
 
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TayJG said:
have very little intelligence and you couldn't educate a child.
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Do you have good intelligence ? If you do, you will find on old posts in this threads or open source that KF-21 is not build for 5th gen on this Blk1, but more on 4.5 gen. They are not planning to have weapons bay not until Blk3, where they are transitional to full 5th gen config. This is "if" they decide to go toward 5th gen. At this moment it is still only plan.

www.koreaherald.com

Past, present, future of S. Korea’s first homegrown KF-21 fighter jet

South Korea’s first independently developed fighter jet soared into the sky in July, making a huge leap forward in the aerospace and defense industry. But the giant step took nearly 20 years, after the South Korean military decided to develop the indigenous advanced fighter aircraft in 2002...
www.koreaherald.com

This is interview with retired head on KF-21 project. Please educate your self on this project. KF-21 (at least present Blk1) aim to replace F-5 and F-4 in South Korean ROKAF and Hawk 200 in TNI-AU. So it is not by both ROKAF and TNI-AU aim as their most sophisticate assets, but more as secondary assets (on present Blk1 version).

Whether ROKAF and TNI-AU then will use this then as F-16 replacement, depends on KF-21 progress in the market. Why ? simple economics both South Korea as Senior Partner and Indonesia as Junior Partner need this fighter to get more market, before they can invest more on further development in Blk 2 or Blk 3 (where it is aim then to transition as full 5th gen).

It is progressing development as Korean plan it from beginning. So call this KF-21 on present development is 5th gen, clearly not in line as what KAI and ROKAF plan. Something that is open in many Korean sources (as I put above), which you can easily find if you are intelligence enough (as you claim to be).
 
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Kementerian Pertahanan Republik Indonesia

www.kemhan.go.id www.kemhan.go.id

From Indonesian MinDef FB and Web pages, on meeting chair by Deputy Defense Minister on Indonesian KF-21 payment dues. Basically asside shown Indonesia politically committed to the program, also talk how the costs on this program should be share by inter ministrial budget and not just one individual ministry.

In one point it can be seen as MinDef want KF-21 program budget to be shared across the cabinets, however on other hand this should be done by this administration from beginning. Involvement on this program is actually across ministries as it is involved Industry, RnD, SOE, Trade, Foreign, etc.

At this moment seems none of ministries want to take ownership and responsibilities on their own. They should not. This is supposedly and should be Cabinet responsibility, thus should be responsibility of the President. This is what previous administration despite their shortcoming, treat this project as whole administration responsibility. Not like what present administration done that toss the projects around bureaucracy.

Let's see if the ownership of the program going to be taken as across the board of cabinet responsibility. Will the Investment and costs payment seriousness going to be resolved ?
 
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1640637528763166720

KF-21 weapons trials, including gun firing, meteor release and meteor configuration load. Sometimes I just chuckle on some online comments including toward that tweeter.

How stubborn daff some online commentators can be. After all this time KAI and Korean analysts even Indonesian officials (as junior partner) already talk in media, telling countless time that KF-21 is not 5th gen fighters, but 4.5th gen ones.

Still this talk of weapons bay continue come out. Still this talk on KF-21 is not 5th gen just only trying to push down KF-21. Can they even understand the Korean doing stage by stage process ? Can they read that the transition toward 5th gen will come later on, after they develop further batch modifications ?

And some of them even dare call themselves highly intelligent defense aviciado. Highly daff intelligence more likely.

Anyway, similar video from Youtube:


2023032817573630033.jpg

Image from video capture by Bemil Chosun.
 
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Is the requirement to fit the Meteor BVR Missile came from the Korean stakeholders? I thought they used primarily US armament.
 
So I guess the fact that the Indonesian Air Force will (probably) be a Meteor user in the future with the Rafale is rather lucky.
 
Arji said:
Is the requirement to fit the Meteor BVR Missile came from the Korean stakeholders? I thought they used primarily US armament.
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Diminishing share of US weapons. Increasing share of indigenous, & some European, e.g. KEPD 350, A330 MRTT. For example, submarines are local, based on German designs. The latest ones have Korean & European sonars & European-developed ESM, optronic mast, weapons handling, diesels, with local CMS, fuel cells, torpedoes, VLS, & missiles. Their AAW destroyers are mostly US-equipped (AEGIS, SM2, etc.) but have a lot of indigenous kit, & their latest frigates are mostly indigenous & European: MT30 GT + MTU diesels, Leonardo electric motors, etc. I think the guns are American. AFVs & artillery are all indigenous, except some old kit. The air force is the most American, but even that's reducing dependence on the USA.
 

bemil.chosun.com

[K-방산] KF-21 미사일 시험탄 발사 영상 공개 | AIM-2000 단거리 공대공 미사일 발사!

[K-방산] KF-21 미사일 시험탄 발사 영상 공개 | AIM-2000 단거리 공대공 미사일 발사!오호! 미사일 시험탄 발사~ 참고독일......
bemil.chosun.com

From Bemil Chosun and YouTube video on KF-21 first test fire on AIM-2000/IRIS-T Short Range Air to Air Missile. On my previous post #294, KAI already trial with Meteor load and release what seems dummy size Meteor Missile. This time real missile test fire.

So far KAI trial on Meteor and IRIS-T, which comfirm what being talk on Korean Enthusiasts forums and online media, that KF-21 primary choice (or at least first priority) are Euro Missiles.


Another Video on different angle. KAI seems so far pacing KF-21 on relatively smooth progress. With this pace, plan for Production in 2026/27 has good chance to be achieve.
 
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Indonesia to receive KF-21 prototype no 5 if payments completed

The South Korean government has confirmed that it will transfer a Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) KF-21 Boramae fighter aircraft prototype to Indonesia, provided...
www.janes.com

This #5 Prototype supposedly assemble in DI according to initial agreement. It is not ROK/KAI fault the Junior Partner neglect two things:
1. Pay the dues on time,
2. Build appropriate KF-21 assemble/production line in DI on time.

Regardless #5 prototype is allocate for DI/Junior Partner and will be given when the dues are paid. This supposedly be tested in DI facility, which is why two TNI-AU pilots already in KAI facility begin induction on the fighter.

5th proto supposedly giving DI familiarization on KF-21 manufacturing and assemble steps and also testing and handle on this fighter in DI and Indonesia facility. All this shown Senior partner still in line with agreement, only the Junior that's late in everything.
 
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