Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

Indonesia’s selection of Rafale in 2022 delays (by at least 15 to 20 years), the ability of the TNI AU to buy AWACS. The TNI can get AWACS once it is finished with taking delivery of 42 Rafales (and not before).

Theoritically from budget point of view (this with big "if"), the delay on that period of more then a decade as you've mentioned, can happen not due to Rafale but more to this F-15ID. This's base on rough calculation on plan budget allocation, "if" multi-year budget being proposed by MinDef can be afford.

This's why in my posts before I speculate, base on potential money trails that can be available, there will be very difficult for Indonesian MoF to agree on both Rafale and F-15ID. Something must to give out. Latest Boeing lobby progress seems indicating they are potential on get something. However from 4 packages that Boeing talk with the AF before (KC-46, E-7, P-8 and F-15ID), I do suspect only one package that can be afford within this decade. I do hope sanity check cross out this F-15ID.

The Geopolitical and Global economy next year provide challenge on budget, however in same time can provide more push on defense. Frankly speaking knowing Indonesian administrations behaviors, I do suspect defense that going to be sacrifice. Thus potential cut on defense multi years procurement more probable then providing additional more on fastening defense development toward existing schedule.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575207968219443200

I just can’t stand it when people like this asshole, keep telling lies.

1. All AWACS, regardless of type (jet or turboprop) are high value targets a notional enemy (like the PLAAF), want to kill. Therefore, AWACS must be defended by a DCA flight, on overwatch. In a contest for air superiority, the goal is to kill the enemy’s AWACS — fight the enemy’s system for air situation awareness, not it’s fighters.

2. Is Alman telling me that:

​

(a) the USN, the JASDF & the ROCAF, all of whom use the E-2D (or E-2K upgraded to the same standards), don’t have the ability to conduct a technical analysis of alternatives to improve their air situation awareness?​

​

(b) their selection of the E-2D (which has propeller driven engines), to enable air superiority over the PLAAF, is wrong?​

3. A capability is not platform centric but rather it resides in the system (for air power generation). Part of the reason Singapore (in 2007), selected the G550AEW (to replace our E-2Cs), is because it files higher (41,000 ft service ceiling), files faster (0.82 Mach), has longer endurance (9 hours) and carries more crew in greater comfort (2 pilots and 6 AWOs) — the higher the AEW files, the further the radar can see.

4. But with it carries a CONOPS change, when the RSAF took delivery of these jets in Feb 2009 and Oct 2011. Every choice has a-pro-and-a-con. With a different CONOPS (aka strike leader), speed at 0.82 Mach becomes slightly more important. At that speed, a three bag F-16C, will struggle to provide a 9 hour DCA overwatch. Instead, DCA is tasked to F-15SGs, as they have the missile carriage capacity, legs, endurance, & speed to keep up for 9 hours, without the need to use afterburners.

5. Speed is also a form of self protection for a high value target. More importantly, the G550-AEW is also equipped with a radar warning receiver, a missile warning system, and a chaff and flare dispensing system.

6. In coalition warfare, the RSAF’s fleet of 4 G550 AEWs and 6 A330MRTTs, are intended to operate forward of the RAAF’s fleet of 6 E-7A Wedgetail Boeing aircraft. A G550-AEW strike leader supports a notional strike package of at least 24 fighters. A E-7A Wedgetail files with a notional package of 60-80 fighters in the air at the same time.

7. For air power generation, can Indonesia generate 120 to 180 sorties in a 9 hour period? If the country can’t mass (aka generate sorties at a certain level), it does not need AWACs.

8. Indonesia’s selection of Rafale in 2022 delays (by at least 15 to 20 years), the ability of the TNI AU to buy AWACS. The TNI can get AWACS once it is finished with taking delivery of 42 Rafales (and not before).

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575309206566993920

9. The buy a few of each, strategy is wrong. Choices have consequences — it’s great that fanboys celebrate for the TNI AU, Prabowo Subianto’s decision to buy Rafales. Whereas I am sad for Indonesia — it delays the date when the country’s air force will be competitive (which is not even at air parity) to a notional enemy like the PLAAF, who operates AWACS.

I believe the procurement of the 42 Rafales is a good decision. These 42 Rafales are enough to at least replace the two squadrons of Hawks Mk.209 light fighters, these Hawks are not only around 25 years old, but also totally incapable to protect an AEW&C aircraft, specially above the North-Natuna Sea.

After this we need one more squadron of Rafales or F-16s to replace the F-5s of SkU 14.

For the AEW&C candidates, i don't know if we directly have to go for the big stuff like the Boeing 737 AEW&C or smaller aircrafts like the C295.

 

[ngatimozart]

For the AEW&C candidates, i don't know if we directly have to go for the big stuff like the Boeing 737 AEW&C or smaller aircrafts like the C295.

For AEW(&C) you really require altitude increasing the radar horizon. That's actually where the RN have a problem with their helo based Crowsnest AEW because the AW101 Merlin can't achieve the same altitude as the American E-2D Hawkeye. Next, the C295AEW is a paper aircraft with only a C295 having every flown with a blank radar disc mounted dorsally to test the aerodynamics. You would have an orphan platform and would be up for the development cost. Given Airbus's other military projects, such as the A400M, you would have a lot of cost and time overruns, which in reality Indonesia can't afford. The Boeing E-7A Wedgetail may also be unaffordable. However SAAB has an AEW program that's quite good and I believe that one of the Middle Eastern nations has ordered it and introducing it into service. It's also in service with the Swedish Air Force as well.
Israel has a good AE&C program well, but that would be politically unacceptable, which is unfortunate because they produce some of the best radars and C3 systems in the world.

 

[ADMk2]

For AEW(&C) you really require altitude increasing the radar horizon. That's actually where the RN have a problem with their helo based Crowsnest AEW because the AW101 Merlin can't achieve the same altitude as the American E-2D Hawkeye. Next, the C295AEW is a paper aircraft with only a C295 having every flown with a blank radar disc mounted dorsally to test the aerodynamics. You would have an orphan platform and would be up for the development cost. Given Airbus's other military projects, such as the A400M, you would have a lot of cost and time overruns, which in reality Indonesia can't afford. The Boeing E-7A Wedgetail may also be unaffordable. However SAAB has an AEW program that's quite good and I believe that one of the Middle Eastern nations has ordered it and introducing it into service. It's also in service with the Swedish Air Force as well.
Israel has a good AE&C program well, but that would be politically unacceptable, which is unfortunate because they produce some of the best radars and C3 systems in the world.

The E-2D itself, might be an excellent compromise on cost and capability… Particularly excellent radar and networking systems (including CeC from all reports).

Japan already uses it in a land based role…

 

[swerve]

For AEW(&C) you really require altitude increasing the radar horizon. That's actually where the RN have a problem with their helo based Crowsnest AEW because the AW101 Merlin can't achieve the same altitude as the American E-2D Hawkeye. Next, the C295AEW is a paper aircraft with only a C295 having every flown with a blank radar disc mounted dorsally to test the aerodynamics. You would have an orphan platform and would be up for the development cost. Given Airbus's other military projects, such as the A400M, you would have a lot of cost and time overruns, which in reality Indonesia can't afford. The Boeing E-7A Wedgetail may also be unaffordable. However SAAB has an AEW program that's quite good and I believe that one of the Middle Eastern nations has ordered it and introducing it into service. It's also in service with the Swedish Air Force as well.
Israel has a good AE&C program well, but that would be politically unacceptable, which is unfortunate because they produce some of the best radars and C3 systems in the world.

The UAE has bought the latest Erieye version (Globaleye), with a modernised radar (GaN TRMs, IIRC) mounted on a Bombardier Global 6000/6500 big bizjet. It previously operated a couple of Saab 340 Erieyes. I think they've been kept, with the radars upgraded. Sweden ordered Globaleye 3 months ago to replace its Saab 340 Erieyes.

Saudi Arabia has a couple with the original radar on Saab 2000 (same as Pakistan). Dunno if they've been updated.

GlobalEye AEW&C | Saab
Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C | Saab

Saab's been good at mounting the system on various platforms: Saab 340, Saab 2000, Embraer R-99 & Global 6000 have been put into service successfully so far, plus another commuter type for the original development.

 

[Ananda]

On 2019, then TNI-AU Chief Marshal Yuyu Sutisna told the media TNI-AU study three candidate for AEW&C. Seems current Chief Marshal Fadjar Prasetyo still keep the recomendation on the types with current MinDef. Those are:

1. E7 Wedgetail,
2. C295 AEW version with IAI EL/W AESA radar,
3. SAAB Erieye radar.

The third ones SAAB offer TNI-AU to choose any platform they want to pair with Eriye radar. It is been talk by media SAAB offer their own SAAB 2000 and 340 as platform altough open with Bombardier Global 6000 as platform, if TNI-AU prefer jet rather turboprop based.

So TNI-AU based on the scope of their studies actually try to cover wide range potential scenarios of AEW&C performance, base on tech and budget wise. TNI-AU again being rumours prefered E7 to replace their 80's 737-200 survailence. It is being talked that with experience on TNI-AU 737-200 survailence, Boeing used that as part of patern on developing both E7 and P8.

Anyway it is in the end back to budget, altough all three OEM (Boeing, Airbus and SAAB) still lobby until this moment on MinDef for their platfotm. As I put in my previous post on repply to OPSSG, theoritically they (MinDef) can still afford AEW&C if they are 'wise' on choosing fighter platform.

Indonesian MinDef and Politicians (related to Arms Commitee) I suspect mostly see development of Air Power, means more "flashy" fighters. However some brass in TNI and defense establishment already look more on network centric environment. Thus more on ISTAR, CSAR and AEW platforms.

No coincidence that in latest Pitch Black, TNI-AU ask RAAF to pair their F-16 with RAAF E7 on one exercise scenarios. I do suspect TNI-AU brass want to use it as opportunity on showing the benefits on network centric environment.

Still anything can possible with Indonesian Bureaucracies and political factions behind them.

Add:
@ngatimozart actually using Israel made equipment is not imposible for TNI. However MinDef ussualy need to package it carefully, so it is not shown bought directly from Israel. The important thing to package the deal as avoiding more 'sensitive' direct interaction. Israel actually have their 'quasy' trade representative in Jakarta. Mostly they are working on projects related to IT and Defense. It is part of Israel trading office reported to the regional South East Asia office in Singapore.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

For AEW(&C) you really require altitude increasing the radar horizon. That's actually where the RN have a problem with their helo based Crowsnest AEW because the AW101 Merlin can't achieve the same altitude as the American E-2D Hawkeye. Next, the C295AEW is a paper aircraft with only a C295 having every flown with a blank radar disc mounted dorsally to test the aerodynamics. You would have an orphan platform and would be up for the development cost. Given Airbus's other military projects, such as the A400M, you would have a lot of cost and time overruns, which in reality Indonesia can't afford. The Boeing E-7A Wedgetail may also be unaffordable. However SAAB has an AEW program that's quite good and I believe that one of the Middle Eastern nations has ordered it and introducing it into service. It's also in service with the Swedish Air Force as well.
Israel has a good AE&C program well, but that would be politically unacceptable, which is unfortunate because they produce some of the best radars and C3 systems in the world.

The UAE has bought the latest Erieye version (Globaleye), with a modernised radar (GaN TRMs, IIRC) mounted on a Bombardier Global 6000/6500 big bizjet. It previously operated a couple of Saab 340 Erieyes. I think they've been kept, with the radars upgraded. Sweden ordered Globaleye 3 months ago to replace its Saab 340 Erieyes.

Saudi Arabia has a couple with the original radar on Saab 2000 (same as Pakistan). Dunno if they've been updated.

GlobalEye AEW&C | Saab
Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C | Saab

Saab's been good at mounting the system on various platforms: Saab 340, Saab 2000, Embraer R-99 & Global 6000 have been put into service successfully so far, plus another commuter type for the original development.

Yes, the Ericsson Erieye is perfect for airforces with a limited budget. As far as i know both the Saab 340 and 2000 are not anymore built, so suitable candidates are indeed the Bombardier Globaleye 6000 and the Embraer R-99. They can not only reach a higher altitude than turboprops like the C295, but these two aircrafts are already existing and proven as AEW&C platforms.

TNI-AL doesn't have aircraft carriers, so i don't see a reason to go for the E-2D, unless its cheaper than the Brazilian or Canadian solutions.
The Xian KJ-600 is undoubtly the cheapest option, but hey, its chinese.

The Boeing 737 AEW&C and P-8 are perfect to replace the Boeing 737-2X9 Surveiller. Like in the '80s we should be able to pay for it, but like Ananda already said, its up to the government if they want to spend more on defence or useless / unnecessary things.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Because of the airshow part i just drop it here.

Hari ABRI/TNI was this year more boring than previous editions, because it is hold at the presidential palace.
You can skip the first 59 minutes and 1:30:00-1:45:00.

If you dont have the time you can watch this 4 minutes and 5 minutes video (airforce preparations yesterday)...

or this 11 mnts video...

or this 7 minutes video. (Global Firepower warning!)

 

[swerve]

Yes, the Ericsson Erieye is perfect for airforces with a limited budget. As far as i know both the Saab 340 and 2000 are not anymore built, so suitable candidates are indeed the Bombardier Globaleye 6000 and the Embraer R-99. They can not only reach a higher altitude than turboprops like the C295, but these two aircrafts are already existing and proven as AEW&C platforms.

TNI-AL doesn't have aircraft carriers, so i don't see a reason to go for the E-2D, unless its cheaper than the Brazilian or Canadian solutions.
The Xian KJ-600 is undoubtly the cheapest option, but hey, its chinese.

The Boeing 737 AEW&C and P-8 are perfect to replace the Boeing 737-2X9 Surveiller. Like in the '80s we should be able to pay for it, but like Ananda already said, its up to the government if they want to spend more on defence or useless / unnecessary things.

SAAB has some SAAB 2000s in storage & has offered them as a budget platform for Erieye. Integration has been done, the aircraft are secondhand, & I think operating costs are low, so the system would be significantly cheaper than one based on new jets. I don't know if they still have 340s in store.

Integrating Erieye on a new platform would put the price up, but given SAAB's track record it's probably pretty low risk.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Oh no.....why!?
Why not focusing on Rafale/F-16 as fighters?
And if they need to buy american, why not something we urgently need and other countries do not (yet) offer, like the CH-47, 737 AEW&C or P-8?

Or at least more AIM-120s...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582272121258274818

Yes i know, there is often no connection between our government and logic/sane defence acquisition.

 

[Ananda]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582657812307451910

Twitter guy as Euro/French salesman seems will got more on his bonus. Asside Rafale, A400M and increasing potential deal with NG on scorpene, the interim fighters using Mirage 2K packages ex Gulf states seems getting financial trail traction.

Rumours talk about not only increasing French preverances from current MinDef also got nod from President circles, also MoF agree on this as soft financing on French deals will be part supported by Gulf connected financial institutions.

Seems Frenchie really being seen as acceptable middle ground for those whose factions not want to be seen too close too Uncle Sam. Frenchie defense electronics deals with Indonesian SOE electronics manufacturer LAN also getting more tractions.

Question remain on Turkiye and that particullar Gulf state defense connections with Jakarta. Increasing snippets shown both of them also getting more tractions.

The only logics available on all of this is finding middle ground that are more acceptable for factions that still worries on too much dependence on defense items with US. If Russia now consider too hot to handle for defense procurements, then find other middle ground other then US.

Not US still not getting defense contracts, it is just seems those contracts that before aim toward Russia, will be given to some other partners outside US. While those contracts that originally intended for US items will still got tractions. It is just seems indication shown those contracts that before aim to Russia or perhaps China that being move either to French or potentialy Turkiye and UAE.

Again shown how Indonesian defense procurement dictate more by Political 'twist' rather then users technical preferences.

Note:
Putting his tweet not because he's most reliable sources. However seems as Bapenas and MoF not shown publicly yet on their latest iteration on Greem Book and PSP financing. He seems as Frenchie sales man already see the copy.

Video that being claim TNI-AU test flight Qatari Mirage 2K-5.

BULGARIA/FRANCE/INDONESIA/QATAR : Indonesia and Bulgaria eye Qatar's Mirage 2000-5 - 06/09/2022 - Intelligence Online

The French Navy was to have taken delivery of 12 Qatar air force Mirage 2000-5 planes, but now Indonesia wants them. - 9/6/2022

www.intelligenceonline.com

There's several rumours where the Gulf Mirage 2K will come. Some talk on ex Qatar ones, other talk on ex UAE, while there're also rumours talk about combo ex Qatar and ex UAE. Still the rumours indicating the deals include all spare parts and weapons of inventory from those AF.

Perhaps the deal come from ex Qatar. Prabowo's seems has connection on both Qatar and UAE. However rumours from 'financial' circle talk on Qatar financial institution will provide more preferable soft financing package.

It is also get better deal if they able to take over all inventory of Qatar Mirage 2000 plus spare parts and supporting infrastructure. Let's see where this is really turn out.

 

[Arji]

Honestly, I think the air force should just retire the entire Sukhoi fleet ASAP seeing that it's sitting useless in the hangar anyway.

 

[Ananda]

Honestly speaking, at this stage of TNI-AU development, better have something then nothing.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582887692605730816

This Indonesian enthusiast put photos from Boeing presentation on Prabowo's meeting recently. Talk on F-15IDN. Which if this going through, raise question if there's enough budget left within this term to procure EW/AEW/C4ISR specialist planes.

TNI-AU and even MinDef planners knows well TNI-AU deficiency on dedicated EW and C4ISR assets. I believe we already see TNI integrated network slides which shown the need for that kind of assets. However Political leadership so far talk more on traditional assets of Fighters, Transport and Radars. Thus seems the budget will goes there first.

It won't be the most effective solutions, but like I wrote in beginning, better something then nothing. Due to delays on procurement from previous term, they need fighters soon. Interim second hand fighters is not uncommon. Brazil done that with early gen Mirage 2K while waiting for their Gripen E/F.

However why MinDef going to choose Mirage 2K from Gulf instead more logical refurbished F-16, clearly derived on more Political connection consideration. Still since Gulf AF always have enough spares and weapons in their Inventory, if they manage to get the whole lot from Qatar (if this's the aim), it will be enough capabilities support for at least a decade operational.

Seems on logistical point, they are choosing area concentration approach. Like Flankers concentrate on Makasar AB. Thus the logistics to support Flankers will handle by that AB. F-16 will be on Madiun and Pekanbaru, in which they are concentrating the logistics support for F-16 on those AB. Heard rumours on Hawk 200 will be concentrate from 2 to 1 sq operation in Pekanbaru, which then handle all support. Perhaps this Mirage 2K then will be concentrate in Pontianak AB (replacing that one Hawk sq), thus that AB also handle all logistics and support of that type.

Downside of this kind of operation, I believe potentially means also operational wise each types have limited area of coverage. As their operation will have to be within the reach of their home AB. This means Flankers (example) practically cover the whole Eastern part of Indonesian airspace. Thus why I don't think they will retire Flankers soon (for better or worse). Until new fighters arrive, they practically have nothing covering Eastern Indonesia asside those Flankers.

Perhaps I'm wrong. But seems the way I see it, TNI-AU chose that, not because they want to. However because they have to, due the political choices of procurement.

 

[koxinga]

TNI-AL doesn't have aircraft carriers, so i don't see a reason to go for the E-2D

That is not a good reason to reject the E-2D as most E-2 operators don't have a carrier (e.g Egypt, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan)

 

[r0m8470]

Honestly speaking, at this stage of TNI-AU development, better have something then nothing.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582887692605730816

This Indonesian enthusiast put photos from Boeing presentation on Prabowo's meeting recently. Talk on F-15IDN. Which if this going through, raise question if there's enough budget left within this term to procure EW/AEW/C4ISR specialist planes.

TNI-AU and even MinDef planners knows well TNI-AU deficiency on dedicated EW and C4ISR assets. I believe we already see TNI integrated network slides which shown the need for that kind of assets. However Political leadership so far talk more on traditional assets of Fighters, Transport and Radars. Thus seems the budget will goes there first.

It won't be the most effective solutions, but like I wrote in beginning, better something then nothing. Due to delays on procurement from previous term, they need fighters soon. Interim second hand fighters is not uncommon. Brazil done that with early gen Mirage 2K while waiting for their Gripen E/F.

However why MinDef going to choose Mirage 2K from Gulf instead more logical refurbished F-16, clearly derived on more Political connection consideration. Still since Gulf AF always have enough spares and weapons in their Inventory, if they manage to get the whole lot from Qatar (if this's the aim), it will be enough capabilities support for at least a decade operational.

Seems on logistical point, they are choosing area concentration approach. Like Flankers concentrate on Makasar AB. Thus the logistics to support Flankers will handle by that AB. F-16 will be on Madiun and Pekanbaru, in which they are concentrating the logistics support for F-16 on those AB. Heard rumours on Hawk 200 will be concentrate from 2 to 1 sq operation in Pekanbaru, which then handle all support. Perhaps this Mirage 2K then will be concentrate in Pontianak AB (replacing that one Hawk sq), thus that AB also handle all logistics and support of that type.

Downside of this kind of operation, I believe potentially means also operational wise each types have limited area of coverage. As their operation will have to be within the reach of their home AB. This means Flankers (example) practically cover the whole Eastern part of Indonesian airspace. Thus why I don't think they will retire Flankers soon (for better or worse). Until new fighters arrive, they practically have nothing covering Eastern Indonesia asside those Flankers.

Perhaps I'm wrong. But seems the way I see it, TNI-AU chose that, not because they want to. However because they have to, due the political choices of procurement.
[/

Is there a chance for the Indo AF to retire the Flankers? If the AF does get the F15IDN (complex logistics and supply chain be damned), wouldn't the Flankers be redundant? Not to mention, sparing and support are probably difficult for them already with the war situation in Ukraine and all.

Consolidating the Hawks makes sense to me. I wonder if the AF would move them East, like to Biak or Kupang. There have been talks in years about setting up fighter squadrons on those 2 locations.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Is there a chance for the Indo AF to retire the Flankers? If the AF does get the F15IDN (complex logistics and supply chain be damned), wouldn't the Flankers be redundant? Not to mention, sparing and support are probably difficult for them already with the war situation in Ukraine and all.

Consolidating the Hawks makes sense to me. I wonder if the AF would move them East, like to Biak or Kupang. There have been talks in years about setting up fighter squadrons on those 2 locations.

Most of your questions are already answered by Ananda.

At this moment we have only five operational fighter squadrons, not enough for a country that size. The BAe Hawks are reliable and have low operating costs, but they are now around 25 years old, have a very short range and are quite useless now for air defence against modern fighters.

What we need are much more fighters, and if possible not like in the past many different types in small quantities, but only several types in larger quantities. The Sukhois seem to be expensive in operations and maintenance, but with the capabilities the Sukhois have, if they are safely to operate (enough spareparts for the coming period), we absolutely need them.

A mixture of T-50i, Rafale and F-16 is the most logic and should be cost effective, but the politicians really want to add the F-15. The Hawks can be easily replaced by the T-50s and at the moment enough F-15s for a full squadron are delivered, we are already in 2030-2035. Then its maybe the time to retire the Sukhois.

I haven't seen any information yet about which types TNI-AU want to use for future squadrons in the east part of Indonesia.

Hopefully the F-15IDN will not become a downgraded FFBNW version of the F-15EX.

 

[Ananda]

there a chance for the Indo AF to retire the Flankers? If the AF does get the F15IDN (complex logistics and supply chain be damned), wouldn't the Flankers be redundant?

If this F-15IDN got traction to real contract, this's going to be Flankers replacement. We can see which current fleet going to be maintained after this decade by looking on their maintenances scope of work.

To add Sandhi post, Hawk 200 and Flanker only got regular maintenance and (for older Flankers) some upgrade toward standardized into latest batch of MK-2. While the F-16 got total refurbishment toward Blk 52 standard, even now being talk on further upgrade toward V standard.

Thus Hawk 200 and Flanker are shown indication being replace when new fighters come. However even those new ones come, will be operational by end part of this Decade (for case of Rafale), or next (for case of this F-15IDN). This is why TNI-AU need to maintain those Hawk and Flanker toward end of this decade even early part of next. This is why Qatar Mirage 2K being negotiate as part of interim preparation toward Rafale operation and stop gap to increase operational coverage. Should be ideally for stop gap, on more refurbished F-16, but politics talk.

My reservation toward F-15IDN more on budget availability. Like I put on my post before, with the price tag of this version, Indonesian AF will be hard pressed to not only procure but also operating this type. Thus unless significant increase on budget, they will have let some other projects go. This more likely goes on sacrifice EW/AEW/C4ISR platforms plan.

This means relied on more ground radar interception and control, as coverage area surveillance network. Not something that ideal for 21st aerial battle plan coverage. However seems politicians talk more Fighters, transport and GCI Radar. Means those assets that got political support more on priority lists. I'm only talk on Rafale and this F-15IDN, not yet on KF-21 Indonesian version (IFX). Add that one, potentially means further pushing down C4ISR/EW platform priority.

Still it's better something than nothing. As just civilian enthusiast, I just resign on that. Hopefully next administration has better planning.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesian online defense enthusiats as usual discuss heavily on recent development. Photo's of Prabowo's visit in US and meet with Boeing and LM excutives increase the tempo of expectations.

Some pesimist, some realists, some fanboys euphoria. From those few make diagrams on Indonesian future AF make up (especialy in Fighter). I'm going to put one from tweeter id #Osprey514. Put this as more or less mostly based on the rumours and existing projects plus. However I do still sense bit fan boyish hope.



In sense more or less shown what mostly local defense ethusiasts gather base on recent development. So this is nothing official yet. For me it is more or less close to what I put in my previous post.

Hawk will be 'rumours' consolidate to one sq (from existing two), thus left the one sq in Pontianak AB (as in my previous post) to be fill with this ex Qatar Mirage 2K. However speculate on Mirage 2K later on (as interim) will be replace by KF-21 or IF-21 (as Indonesian batch), again have political traction but no money trail.

Talk on Upgrading existing Blk 52 MLU toward V/Blk 72 was based on LM official that offer V version as part of TNI-AU capabilities adjustment toward F-35. LM do in their marketing communication in media talk about that. Again no money trail yet on V upgrade project let alone F-35 ones.

Rafale then being discuss as new capabilities/new squadron. This is part of TNI-AU plan for increase operational sq (including LIFT and COIN) from 7 to 10.

While if F-15IDN got enough money trail traction, it will going to replace Flanker sq in Makasar AB. This also seems fall to the idea 'heavy' fighters for East Indonesia.

So, if this is the design, practically TNI-AU still operating at least 4 types of Fighter, just as this time around. It will not change much on their operational doctrine, while 'hopefully' they are better learn to cover their logistical deficiencies.

If they manage to get those fleet with enough spare parts and weapons inventories, it is already big improvement.

As for EW/AEW/C4ISR platforms ? Well seems going to be push back on budgetary prioritise again. Fighters, Transport, and Ground base radars still seems getting the priorities. Hopefully got some 'surprise' development on that area. I'm 'gladly' take mistaken prediction if that happen. So far seems not the trend I see. Seems other enthusiats also not see that.

 

[swerve]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582657812307451910

....

There's several rumours where the Gulf Mirage 2K will come. Some talk on ex Qatar ones, other talk on ex UAE, while there're also rumours talk about combo ex Qatar and ex UAE. Still the rumours indicating the deals include all spare parts and weapons of inventory from those AF.

Perhaps the deal come from ex Qatar. Prabowo's seems has connection on both Qatar and UAE. However rumours from 'financial' circle talk on Qatar financial institution will provide more preferable soft financing package.

It is also get better deal if they able to take over all inventory of Qatar Mirage 2000 plus spare parts and supporting infrastructure. Let's see where this is really turn out.

Qatar only has 12 M2Ks, though, so unless Indonesia adds others (e.g. from the UAE) it'll have another penny packet of aircraft incompatible with anything else in its air force to add to those it already has.

Militarily, it'd be better to boost numbers by buying secondhand F-16s & have all its F-16s with enough hours left to make it worthwhile upgraded to a common standard.

But if it's to be M2Ks, it should be significantly more than the 12 Qatar has.

 

[Ananda]

Militarily, it'd be better to boost numbers by buying secondhand F-16s & have all its F-16s with enough hours left to make it worthwhile upgaded to a common standard.

As I have mentioned in my post or other Indonesian like Sandhi put in his post, Political consideration that play now and not Operational Logic. This Mirage 2K deal indicating some underlying agreement being talk before between French, Indonesian and Qatar or even UAE. Finance people rumours talk on Gulf financial institution involvement on providing part of soft financing facilities for Frenchie stuff. Perhaps that one of the reasons or perhaps related to others trade or Investment deals.

So far the money trails on this 'interim' fighters package talk has not really shown the details. The Qatar Mirage 2K could be the only batch of perhaps there is other batch from UAE. Not clear yet.

Logics say the interim fighters should be F-16. Indication LM offer further upgrade toward existing F-16 fleet toward Blk 70+ equivalent from previous upgrade to Blk 50+ equivalent. Seems Indonesian politics still not want to rellied all to US. So if the diversity not going to be Russian, then French it is.

it'll have another penny packet of aircraft incompatible with anything else in its air force to add to those it already has.

Yes, if they only get the Fighters. However if they can get the whole Mirage 2K parts, weapons and supporting infrastructure that Qatar already invested, this can be enough a decade plus half operational support. That's the details on the deal that has not been clear yet.

I still hope they (Indonesian MinDef) in the last twist used this interim fighters project toward all F-16. Thus more F-16 and refurbishment package. However this's just my wish and not decisions maker decision.