Indonesian Aero News

Ananda

The Bunker Group
that's one step before MoU and two steps before the actual contract, right?
Yeah, sometimes the fanboys in local enthusiats communities and media, does not differentiate between LOI, MOU, Prelimimary Contract agreement/arrangement and Effective Contract order. They seems forgot the last one that matter, because the last one that already have money trails to back it up.

This Indodefence as before will be going to have several agreement in signing. Not that going to be different with other defence expo internationally. However how much that already reach effective contract, that will be different matter.

Just like this one:


FB_IMG_1667377015248.jpg

from Indo Defence Review FB.

Enthusiast FB page shown multiple signing with Turkiye producer during this Indo Defence. Not surprising as Indonesia already talk for sometime with Turkiye on defense co-op. However will this's going to be effective all, remain to be seen.

I do suspect some other agreement with UAE and Frenchie will be sign later on, as those just like Turkiye that already having discussion on defense industrial co-op. Again remain to be seen how much that's going to reach effective contract stages.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Everyone now increasing their industrial foot prints on Drone Development. This article shown some photos from Indonesian Defense Industry drones designs. How many of those going to productions, that's another question.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
The funny thing is that last year a LoI for 2+4 aircrafts was already signed, and now they did it again...

Everyone now increasing their industrial foot prints on Drone Development. This article shown some photos from Indonesian Defense Industry drones designs. How many of those going to productions, that's another question.
Such things makes me sad, several usable UAVs are developed the last two deccades, but all of these programs ended premature, as flying prototype or even before this stage. If even a large project like the Elang Hitam, created by LAPAN and IPTN is cancelled/on hold, how can we expect that other UAV programs will get government support?
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
even a large project like the Elang Hitam, created by LAPAN and IPTN is cancelled/on hold, how can we expect that other UAV programs will get government support?
To be fair Elang Hitam MALE UAV is not being told cancelled. However being told to be develop as non combatant MALE UAV. But you are right, as this moment it is bit hard to see which ones of those local industry defense project that will gain momentum forward, or which ones going to stay in design or prototype stages.
 

tonnyc

Well-Known Member
One thing that I notice about Indonesia's drone acquisition and development is that we have been focusing on large drones. But recent events has shown that drones of all sizes have their own roles.

I am seeing quite a few attempts at turning commercial drones into dual purpose drones.
 

Arji

Active Member
One thing that I notice about Indonesia's drone acquisition and development is that we have been focusing on large drones. But recent events has shown that drones of all sizes have their own roles.

I am seeing quite a few attempts at turning commercial drones into dual purpose drones.
I know theres a loitering munition project worked on by private firm and SOE, PT. Aeroterrascan and PT Dahana.

On another note,
It looks like the payment for KFX is finally resumed.

Indonesia resumes payment for joint fighter development project with S. Korea | Yonhap News Agency
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Yeah, 9 billion Won from total 800 billion won dues. Only 1%+ of payment dues. That's USD 560 mio + that need to be covered. It can be done if they just drop this F-15ID and change it to F-16V as being planned before.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Yeah, 9 billion Won from total 800 billion won dues. Only 1%+ of payment dues. That's USD 560 mio + that need to be covered. It can be done if they just drop this F-15ID and change it to F-16V as being planned before.
That was actually exactly what i wanted to comment. From the overdue payments of about 800 billion won, only 9,4 billion won ($6,6 million) has been paid. I still don't think South-Korea (and others) will take us serious, after this enormous amount.

But i am still in shock and awe to read that our beloved government has paid SOMETHING.




Here some good news....
The first C-130J-30 for TNI-AU will be delivered in February or March 2023, the other 4 in 2024.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
Don't forget asside paying the dues, they also has to prepare Investment on IFX assembly line and parts production. DI got additional capital, but unlike some Fanboys talking, those additional capitals are for N-219 lines or this Elang Hitam UAV lines, plus existing lines enhancement.

Thus practically no new Investment yet for this IFX. No brainier as DI can hope to gain cash flow from N-219, CN-235 or NC-212i, but not from this KFX/IFX program. KFX/IFX program will not bring enough cash flow, as DI doesn't hold IP of that project. While N-219 is their design (with LAPAN), has half IP rights on CN-235 and Airbus license on NC-212i production and marketing rights.

So if the idea is too make DI as viable commercial Aerospace company, then those three are the projects that need to be invest on. IFX is 'ride along' projects to gain experience. In such the calculation is not to gain commercial benefits but only experience.

This's the question, will this administration or the next going to finance projects for DI on experience and not commercial benefits ? You just can't make enough commercial gain on 'ride along' projects, as it is not been design for that. So talking on export rights for IFX clearly moot and unreasonable thinking.

That's what they have to decide, but not put this project on 'limbo'. Yes or No on continuing, and don't try to find middle ground. Commit or exit, no middle ground and try to bargain for more rights (without adding payment). That's clearly fantasy thinking.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Well as mentioned before, asside Turkiye, Frenchie and UAE also will get some shares of agreement in this Indo Defence 2022. With UAE AMMROC it is quite interesting as the agreement is for Fighters MRO. UAE we know operating F-16 Blk60+ which is already close to Blk 70. With the talk of TNI-AU will got allotment for further upgrading Blk50 toward Blk70, is this a sign on that?

UAE also will be big Rafale operator. However is this also sign that Mirage 2000 that being talk before as interim fighters will come from UAE istead of Qatar?

The work on Collins Aerospace and Honeywell related to the work for refurbishement for 11 C-130H. This is basically talk on overall C-130H inventory, outside ex RAAF ones. Strong indication as mention before of maintaning at least 2 sq of C-130H, outside C-130J sq. No news yet on how to round up 1 sq of C-130J-30, either new ones or combo with second hand ones. Rumours of the talk with UK on gaining some ex RAF C-130J-30 has been circulate for sometime now.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

This is why my colleugues in SOE Bank talk how many of 'projects' in this Indo Defense 'reek' of political agenda. This one can be said fall on that.

Perhaps Irkut says, if you don't want to buy directly from us due to CAATSA, why don't you buy license from us and build it in your facilities. This talk for DI on LIFT/LCA already being rumours for some time. This afterall more 'logical' move to enter fighters manufacturing capabilities, as Habibie plan with Hawk 100/200 in 90's.

However before the talk is with KAI for TA/FA-50. Now somehow they talk with Irkut. I don't know whose political factions that move this. Perhaps that InfoGlobal LCA mock up that I put few days ago, going to use Irkut tech ?

Who knows, when politics become the 'logics' any ideas no matter ilogical or remote on present conditions, can happen.

Add another article on this:


This is why long term planning not working in Indonesia after our 'beloved' dictactor gone. Everything is always fluid in Indonesian political circles, so fluid even can create 'vortex' that flows round around.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
UAE also will be big Rafale operator. However is this also sign that Mirage 2000 that being talk before as interim fighters will come from UAE istead of Qatar?
That would make it possible to buy more, since Qatar only has 12 Mirage 2000-5, while the UAE has almost 60 Mirage 2000-9. About half of those are older than the Qatari airframes, 1980s 2000E later upgraded to 2000-9, while the rest were built as 2000-9 & delivered from 2003.
 

tonnyc

Well-Known Member
Yesterday Indonesian Aerospace signed a contract for the delivery of 11 N-219 aircraft with a local cargo company PT Karya Logistik Indotama. The contract is valued at Rp1.2 trillion (US$80.4 million).



The following is not in the news but according to the employee I talked with, the Ministry of Defence has an MOU for a military version of the N-219. The main difference is a larger sliding side door, losing 2 passenger seats in the process. Apparently this is requested for easier parachute jumping and also for easier cargo handling. The cargo version has all seats removed. The MOU is for ten aircraft but given that this is an MOU details can still change. Keep in mind that this is different from the contract with Karya Logistik. However, while I am not privy to the content of the contract, the brochures I saw show that the larger sliding door is also present with the civilian cargo version.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

I like to shown this company move, no matter how bizare as this seems. As if they manage to put this in the event like Indo Defence, means someone high enough already back it up. Also this shown how political agenda can create new changes on long term planning.


This page on the other hand shown what this company main track record. Working on avionics. So getting co-op with kind like BAe systems is making sense. While the above page, well something that coming from 'behind' on agenda that somehow crop up.


Well they're also shown in the above video on their C-130H glass cockpit as part of C-130H refurbishment program. While DI put it is Colin's Aerospace as main contractor. If that so, why don't they just say in their booth as sub contractor for glass cockpit with Collins Aerospace ?

Honestly, Is Indonesian defense companies really try to hide the real condition that they are 'at this moment' mostly working as subcontractor ? Nothing shameful on that.

It is just cropping out more, as almost every local company try to 'mask' their products to fill the jargon as 'karya anak bangsa' or indigenous products. Doing that nothing more to full fill 'image politics' that always infested Indonesian politics.

This kind of thing actually going to be unproductive towards those 'few' local business that genuinely really try to develop their own capabilities and tech based.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

Well as mentioned before, asside Turkiye, Frenchie and UAE also will get some shares of agreement in this Indo Defence 2022. With UAE AMMROC it is quite interesting as the agreement is for Fighters MRO. UAE we know operating F-16 Blk60+ which is already close to Blk 70. With the talk of TNI-AU will got allotment for further upgrading Blk50 toward Blk70, is this a sign on that?

UAE also will be big Rafale operator. However is this also sign that Mirage 2000 that being talk before as interim fighters will come from UAE istead of Qatar?

The work on Collins Aerospace and Honeywell related to the work for refurbishement for 11 C-130H. This is basically talk on overall C-130H inventory, outside ex RAAF ones. Strong indication as mention before of maintaning at least 2 sq of C-130H, outside C-130J sq. No news yet on how to round up 1 sq of C-130J-30, either new ones or combo with second hand ones. Rumours of the talk with UK on gaining some ex RAF C-130J-30 has been circulate for sometime now.
Well, our southern neighbours are planning to retire their existing fleet of 12 C-130J-30 transporters the coming years, if im not wrong their fleet is slightly younger than the fleet of RAF, but i don't know about the amount of flight hours.



This is why my colleugues in SOE Bank talk how many of 'projects' in this Indo Defense 'reek' of political agenda. This one can be said fall on that.

Perhaps Irkut says, if you don't want to buy directly from us due to CAATSA, why don't you buy license from us and build it in your facilities. This talk for DI on LIFT/LCA already being rumours for some time. This afterall more 'logical' move to enter fighters manufacturing capabilities, as Habibie plan with Hawk 100/200 in 90's.

However before the talk is with KAI for TA/FA-50. Now somehow they talk with Irkut. I don't know whose political factions that move this. Perhaps that InfoGlobal LCA mock up that I put few days ago, going to use Irkut tech ?

Who knows, when politics become the 'logics' any ideas no matter ilogical or remote on present conditions, can happen.

Add another article on this:


This is why long term planning not working in Indonesia after our 'beloved' dictactor gone. Everything is always fluid in Indonesian political circles, so fluid even can create 'vortex' that flows round around.
This will just stay a fantasy project, with the people involved busy with lobbying for financial support from the state for "studi banding dan ongkos2 lain".





I like to shown this company move, no matter how bizare as this seems. As if they manage to put this in the event like Indo Defence, means someone high enough already back it up. Also this shown how political agenda can create new changes on long term planning.


This page on the other hand shown what this company main track record. Working on avionics. So getting co-op with kind like BAe systems is making sense. While the above page, well something that coming from 'behind' on agenda that somehow crop up.


Well they're also shown in the above video on their C-130H glass cockpit as part of C-130H refurbishment program. While DI put it is Colin's Aerospace as main contractor. If that so, why don't they just say in their booth as sub contractor for glass cockpit with Collins Aerospace ?

Honestly, Is Indonesian defense companies really try to hide the real condition that they are 'at this moment' mostly working as subcontractor ? Nothing shameful on that.

It is just cropping out more, as almost every local company try to 'mask' their products to fill the jargon as 'karya anak bangsa' or indigenous products. Doing that nothing more to full fill 'image politics' that always infested Indonesian politics.

This kind of thing actually going to be unproductive towards those 'few' local business that genuinely really try to develop their own capabilities and tech based.
It's embarrassing but sadly its true. Pretending its an indigenous project while its (almost) 100% a foreign, that's just lying what they are doing. The only people they can please and impress are the fanboys, amateur journalists and some retarded politicians.
Btw, it seems that Infoglobal collaborated with local aerospace design firm Vimana Litbang & Rekayasa, which is headed by former commercial unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) pilot, Sunanto Ajidarmo.

Anyway, how can we expect others respect and look up to our defence industry, if local companies (and the politicians who back them up) lack the sense of reality?


Yesterday Indonesian Aerospace signed a contract for the delivery of 11 N-219 aircraft with a local cargo company PT Karya Logistik Indotama. The contract is valued at Rp1.2 trillion (US$80.4 million).



The following is not in the news but according to the employee I talked with, the Ministry of Defence has an MOU for a military version of the N-219. The main difference is a larger sliding side door, losing 2 passenger seats in the process. Apparently this is requested for easier parachute jumping and also for easier cargo handling. The cargo version has all seats removed. The MOU is for ten aircraft but given that this is an MOU details can still change. Keep in mind that this is different from the contract with Karya Logistik. However, while I am not privy to the content of the contract, the brochures I saw show that the larger sliding door is also present with the civilian cargo version.
Thank you for sharing this good news. So after the single order of the local government of Aceh, this is the second REAL civilian order?
So how much N219 (original civilian version) has the Indonesian government for the armed forces?
I wonder who will pay for the development of the military version with enlarged cargo doors, until now government support is chronical insufficiently. Besides that until this moment the development of the amphibious version is not yet finished and even the production of the initial/original version has not yet started.




But this is really a surprise acquisition. It seems nobody knew about it....Antara, Janes, Scramble...even not @Ananda's friend the Oracle on Twitter.
I don't know if this is really a necessary procurement, TNI-AU already has enough 737 Classics besides the BBJ2 (A-001). Other countries use the CN235 as a VVIP-aircraft, but sadly our country doesn't use the CN235 or C295 for the transport of high officials. Yes the Falcon 7X is undoubtly faster and has an impressive range, but the CN235, C295 and 737-300/400/500 can transport much more people and cargo, have enough speed and range and are totally suitable for the transport for high officials inside Indonesia and surrounding countries.
Hopefully this acquisition is not done the same way as the EH-101 procurement.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
this is really a surprise acquisition. It seems nobody knew about it....Antara, Janes, Scramble...even not @Ananda's friend the Oracle on Twitter.
Actually Tweeter guy already hinting on that few days ago. He's Frenchie sales man afterall.


Hopefully this acquisition is not done the same way as the EH-101 procurement.
Got the feeling this one will not end up like EH-101 VIP messup. That one happen because it is done without proper 'political' channel first. They try to change Super Puma from DI as presidential VIP helicopter, without consulting SekNeg (state secretary) office.


Business Jet if being use by each TNI braches can be done as long as you done it on proper allotment budget allocation. That's seems not what EH-101 VIP case. Like I said some time ago, previous MinDef were really mess up on preparing budget process.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group


Couple days ago, Tweeter Guy gleefully talk on potential hold on F-15EX deal due to financial issue. Seems now US media also hinting problem on that. He's after all sales guy, thus must 'smell' something if one of competition deal got potential problem.

Indonesia always used foreign credit line for large overseas procurement, and not just for defense. This's I already shown few times already since even Soeharto's era. So the talk on problem on payment in installments, as the above article put, I see it as potential Indonesia want to use several different credit line with various different scheduling. However also on Price.

On Financing side, producer/OEM will always being paid on contractual base, by the financing institutions. However usually US OEM export being finance by US EXIM Bank. Perhaps Indonesia bargain on not using US EXIM or only use portion of financing line through US EXIM as already finding some other 'softer' financing sources.

Thus OEM like Boeing usually don't care how they're being paid as whoever finance the credit line deal, will pay them based on contractual stages. For that, I suspect financing sources or payment scheduling is more minor side. Big part is more on Indonesia still bargaining on the prices packages.

On this one I do agree with Tweeter Guy (secret hope) for the deal to be ditch. However unlike Tweeter guys I do hope the deal goes not for more Rafale, but more F-16. LM do have rather big presence in Indo Defence. They bring their Blk70+ simulator for TNI-AU brass to experience. I do have feeling deep down those TNI-AU brass still hoping more F-16 then F-15.

Again it is the matter of Operational budget for those TNI-AU brass to think. They're knows well their Operational budget has not shown indication to be increase substantially yet, for operating both expensive types of Rafale and this F-15ID. So LM seems still waiting not just for the deal of V package upgrade on existing F-16, but hoping for new ones if Boeing deals got sour.

I do see for Political reason, Indonesia will keep the deal with US OEM if Boeing can't meet the price negotiation deal.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Well, Sikorsky finaly clintch a deal to path a way for Indonesian defense medium weight helicopter market. Airbus Helicopter and Bell just have to share the market now. This is open a way for Army that so far seems reluctant to use H225 for their medium weight helicopter need.

To think about this, despite all high level profilling that Boeing doing lately, including meeting with Jokowi, LM so far clintch more deal. They already got deals for C-130J, some support for C-130H refurbishment, now this path way for Black Hawk toward Indonesian Armed Forces market, which so far hold by Airbus and Bell.

If they manage to get F-16 refurbishment and upgrade market plus new ones, it shows like Airbus, LM already knows better how to gain traction in Indonesian market. Doing more in low key manners.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
http://instagr.am/p/CkzM-c9PKML/
FB_IMG_1668129409348.jpg

The first one is Instagram from TNI-AU 31st sq on their personal training with C-130J. The second one is Infoglobal various cockpits they're working on. On the picture in the right is C-130H glass cockpit upgrade project.

In one of the pictures in Instagram, shown cockpit of Indonesian C-130J. Comparing both, seems shown similarities on layout. How far the similarities on the system, remain to be seen.

Still so far indication seems shown effort to standardise layout to increase commonality. In such this is the approach that many civilian airliners already done. Standardisation is not TNI strong suit so far.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
http://instagr.am/p/CkzM-c9PKML/
View attachment 49877

The first one is Instagram from TNI-AU 31st sq on their personal training with C-130J. The second one is Infoglobal various cockpits they're working on. On the picture in the right is C-130H glass cockpit upgrade project.

In one of the pictures in Instagram, shown cockpit of Indonesian C-130J. Comparing both, seems shown similarities on layout. How far the similarities on the system, remain to be seen.

Still so far indication seems shown effort to standardise layout to increase commonality. In such this is the approach that many civilian airliners already done. Standardisation is not TNI strong suit so far.
Also Honeywell together with IPTN are involved with the upgrade program of the C-130. Honeywell has signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with PT Dirgantara Indonesia for the potential supply of its Military Airborne Collision Avoidance System (MILACAS) for the Indonesian Air Force C-130.

|"MILACAS “is designed for a better range and quality of the surveillance broadcast on military aircraft”, Ramiah said.
It “provides up to two times better surveillance rate than the Enhanced Traffic Alert Collision Avoidance System (ETCAS)”, Ramiah added."|
So it seems to be better than the civilian TCAS.


Honeywell, PTDI partner to supply collision-avoidance system to Indonesian Air Force


Here some more news about the C-130, this time about the retirement of one of the oldest C-130Bs in TNI-AU service, A-1312
 
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