Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Sandhi Yudha]

towed array sonar

Our sonar thin-line towed array gives operational advantage in Anti-Submarine Warfare and monitors underwater environmental conditions.

www.sea.co.uk

KraitSense is basically compact towed array sonar. Thus actually choosing this (if the customer really TNI-AL), then it's actually can be better then most ASW suites they have.

View attachment 51648



SEA only says their Southeast Asia customer has vast coastline and high number of Islands. Well it can be Philippines though . They also have OPV program with Hyundai.

You can be right, or the Philippines plan to upgrade two from the three Gregorio del Pillar offshore patrol frigates. If im not wrong, they have that upgrade in the planning for some years.

In-Details: Upgrading the Del Pilar-class Frigates

The Philippine Navy obtains three of these ex-United States Coast Guard cutters in the fleet with one on the shipyard for a hull repair and overhaul. While the timeline of that repair takes time after taking significant damages after being grounded on the reefs that are claimed by parties on the...

www.pitzdefanalysis.net

 

[Ananda]

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

FB Page call Industry Made In Indonesia put photo from Palindo yard on the Hidro-Oceanography Vessel they build with license from Fassmer and Abekin-Rasmusen.



The first steel cut done in Sept Last year. Information in Media talk about launching this vessels by end of this year. This vessels platform is build and responsible by Palindo. Fassmer and Abekin-Rasmusen will provide systems and if my understanding is correct basic design.

A&R and Fassmer are collaborating

A&R and Fassmer are jointly constructing a hydrographic ship for Indonesia. Delivery is scheduled for December 2025.

www.abeking.com

 

[kato]

The first steel cut done in Sept Last year. Information in Media talk about launching this vessels by end of this year. This vessels platform is build and responsible by Palindo. Fassmer and Abekin-Rasmusen will provide systems and if my understanding is correct basic design.

General contractor is Abeking & Rasmussen. Fassmer provides the ship design and - as i understand it - is responsible for building the basic hull which is outsourced to BT Palindo.

The hull had its engines installed last week and will be launched and shipped from Indonesia to Germany later this year (planned arrival is December 2024). It will then receive its outfitting at A&R's shipyard.

Source: Fr. Fassmer GmbH & Co. KG auf LinkedIn: Fortschritt beim Bau des Vermessungsschiffes für die indonesische…

 

[koxinga]

Why didn't they go back to OCEA? They did order two (Rigel) hydrography vessels from them. A&R built their MCMs and there were supposed to be plans for more.

 

[kato]

Why didn't they go back to OCEA?

OCEA only designs and builds ships up to 90m length.

 

[Ananda]

Keris FB put this photo of KRI Pulau Rupat, one of two Tripartite class MCMV. With two new Abekin-Rasmusen MCMV coming to operational fleet, I remember those two should begin refurbishment work. TNI AL plan to keep 4 MCMV in the fleet, while retiring all Ex East German Condor MCMV.

HENSOLDT strengthens the operational capability of the Indonesian Navy’s two Minehunters

www.hensoldt.net

Hensoldt got contract for refurbishment, that my understanding will be done in Indonesian yard but with Hensoldt supervision as main contractor. This photo taken beside Submarine pen in Surabaya Naval Base, close to PAL facility. Is this mean they are now being prepared for refurbishment project?

 

[Meriv90]

Just in case since there are so many players in the game at the same time Leonardo should be the biggest private stockholder(21%) of Hensoldt (German goverment at 25%)

Share Information

Share PriceHere you find all relevant information on the HENSOLDT share. Consensus (status as of July 24th 2024) 2024E 2025E 2026E Book-to-bill ratio 1.2x 1.2x 1.2x Revenue in €m 2,304.5 2,628.2 2,896.5 Adjusted EBITDA margin in % 17.7% 18.3% 18.9% Net leverage 1.8x 1.4x 0.9xThe following...

investors.hensoldt.net

 

[Ananda]

PT PAL Indonesia Gelar ‘PAL Goes to Campus’ di ITS: Menginspirasi Masa Depan Sektor Maritim Indonesia

Surabaya (06/09) – PT PAL Indonesia menggelar “PAL Goes to Campus” di Institut Teknologi Sepuluh November (ITS) hari ini, menandai langkah penting dalam menjembatani kolaborasi […]

www.pal.co.id

17 reactions | Tantangan dunia maritim menjadi peluang bagi Akademisi khususnya generasi muda! PT PAL Indonesia dengan bangga kembali menyapa para calon pemimpin maritim Indonesia di ITS Surabaya. Road show program "PAL Goes To Campus" diharapkan dapat meningkatkan kolaborasi antara akademis dengan industri maritim. Bersama-sama, kita ingin menyatukan visi untuk membangun peradaban maritim Indonesia yang kuat dan mandiri. Saksikan rekap acara PAL Goes to Institut Teknologi Sepuluh Nopember Surabaya dalam video berikut! | PT PAL Indonesia

Tantangan dunia maritim menjadi peluang bagi Akademisi khususnya generasi muda! PT PAL Indonesia dengan bangga kembali menyapa para calon pemimpin maritim Indonesia di ITS Surabaya. Road show program...

www.facebook.com

PAL CEO talk in one of Surabaya University on Maritime industry future in Indonesia. In the presentation he shows next project that they want or already working on:

• 140m Frigate base on Arrowhead design,
• 240m LHD base on Juan Carlos design,
• USV/Autonomous Sub.

LHD seems getting traction, however I still not see money trail on this one. However when PAL now openly shown this, usually means they're getting enough political support from administration. PAL doing what they believe already successful model with LPD.

They build their LPD (Makasar class) basically by buying Korean Daesun design and now moving into their own enlarge design with 160m+ derivative for UAE. The Red-White Frigate basically Arrowhead design slightly enlarge with few meters more. The autonomous design USV information is still scratchy, but from my understanding they are working with a German base vendors on the design.

This also means in my opinion, any Frigate project (like PPA) or Destroyer or even Corvette has to come out outside PAL. Either from private domestic yard, or domestic yard working with overseas Yard or completely build in overseas Yard.

This is also shown the limitations on domestic yards. Still like in OPV/Corvette, Noahtu effort for building them as alternative from PAL should be further pursue toward other domestic private yards.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

View attachment 51707

PT PAL Indonesia Gelar ‘PAL Goes to Campus’ di ITS: Menginspirasi Masa Depan Sektor Maritim Indonesia

Surabaya (06/09) – PT PAL Indonesia menggelar “PAL Goes to Campus” di Institut Teknologi Sepuluh November (ITS) hari ini, menandai langkah penting dalam menjembatani kolaborasi […]

www.pal.co.id

17 reactions | Tantangan dunia maritim menjadi peluang bagi Akademisi khususnya generasi muda! PT PAL Indonesia dengan bangga kembali menyapa para calon pemimpin maritim Indonesia di ITS Surabaya. Road show program "PAL Goes To Campus" diharapkan dapat meningkatkan kolaborasi antara akademis dengan industri maritim. Bersama-sama, kita ingin menyatukan visi untuk membangun peradaban maritim Indonesia yang kuat dan mandiri. Saksikan rekap acara PAL Goes to Institut Teknologi Sepuluh Nopember Surabaya dalam video berikut! | PT PAL Indonesia

Tantangan dunia maritim menjadi peluang bagi Akademisi khususnya generasi muda! PT PAL Indonesia dengan bangga kembali menyapa para calon pemimpin maritim Indonesia di ITS Surabaya. Road show program...

www.facebook.com

PAL CEO talk in one of Surabaya University on Maritime industry future in Indonesia. In the presentation he shows next project that they want or already working on:

• 140m Frigate base on Arrowhead design,
• 240m LHD base on Juan Carlos design,
• USV/Autonomous Sub.

LHD seems getting traction, however I still not see money trail on this one. However when PAL now openly shown this, usually means they're getting enough political support from administration. PAL doing what they believe already successful model with LPD.

They build their LPD (Makasar class) basically by buying Korean Daesun design and now moving into their own enlarge design with 160m+ derivative for UAE. The Red-White Frigate basically Arrowhead design slightly enlarge with few meters more. The autonomous design USV information is still scratchy, but from my understanding they are working with a German base vendors on the design.

This also means in my opinion, any Frigate project (like PPA) or Destroyer or even Corvette has to come out outside PAL. Either from private domestic yard, or domestic yard working with overseas Yard or completely build in overseas Yard.

This is also shown the limitations on domestic yards. Still like in OPV/Corvette, Noahtu effort for building them as alternative from PAL should be further pursue toward other domestic private yards.

Ive never heard before that PAL was cooperating with/bought a design from Navantia for an LHD-program. I thought there are just some wish/dream/fantasy designs based on a 150 m long civilian tanker. It is also remarkable that they talking about a 243 m design, much larger than the Canberra and Anadolu class LHDs which have an (almost) identical length compared to the Juan Carlos I.

 

[76mmGuns]

Wonder why the LHD based on JC is popular. Did Australia share a lot of information about them? Offhand, the Italian Trieste is better, though it is much more expensive and heavily armed

 

[Ananda]

Personally I suspect if Juan Carlos design being taken, they got more information from Turkiye then Australia. Not saying Australia did not given information, but because the traction with Turkiye on defense industry cooperation is getting increasing momentum.

However considering Fincantieri also getting increasing traction cooperation with PAL, who knows that Trieste design can come out as final design. Afterall this LHD still fluid and not being set as final yet. For one thing they want 240-250m LHD design, and Trieste design already 240+m.

From what I heard, some in Navy and MinDef wants more escorts first then any capital ship like LHD. However some in MinDef also seems being sold on the concept, more to what they learn from Turkiye on UAV carriers concept. So let's see how this develop.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

It is actually remarkable that Indonesia never went for the Dokdo-design from Hanjin Heavy Industries. It is of course from another company than the Makassar Class LPDs (Daesun Shipbuilding & Engineering Co.), but a similar construction with transfer of technology and the acquisition of the design should have been possible.

And do we really urgently need an LHD, are LPDs not enough for our navy? I believe there are a lot of other more important requirements for our armed forces.

The only thing i can think of if we need to evacuate our people abroad and air support with combat helicopters and UCAVs is required.

 

[tonnyc]

And do we really urgently need an LHD, are LPDs not enough for our navy? I believe there are a lot of other more important requirements for our armed forces.

Of course there are more important things that the navy needs before the LHD. But the naval brass wants something they can call a carrier and the LHD, if you squint at it hard, is kinda a carrier. We are fortunate in that our naval brass know they can't get an actual carrier, but not fortunate enough that they aren't trying for a kinda-carrier.

 

[Ananda]

UAE Procures LPD from Indonesian Shipbuilder PT PAL - Naval News

UAE signed a contract worth $408 million with the Indonesian shipbuilder PT PAL for the procurement of a 163-meter LPD.

www.navalnews.com

Al Maryah class LPD, that UAE's 163m Makasar derivative class LPD is actually being talk as next amphibious class that TNI-AL also going to take. It is basically Makasar class on steroids with better SEWACO and more automations. It is cost around 9 times then standard Makasar class LPD.

Then this talk of LHD come out, which from what I heard because guys in MinDef thinking more on UAV, amaze what UAV can do in Ukraine-Russia war, and they're being attracted to Turkiye UAV carrier concept.

In the end money talk, and LHD will cost at minimum twice of LPD with Al Maryah specs. When all those money calculation come to overall budget on naval build up wish list, will see if LHD still fall on priority list. PAL CEO talk on getting this LHD timetable to 2028 (on previous presentation), but then the Navy also talk for numbers of Frigates, Corvettes, Submarines toward next term.

Somehow I just don't see LHD meet the affordability budget calculation on that fleet 'development' list. Then again it is Indonesia after all, priority logics can be recalculate and sacrifices for something shiny that meet political image building. Who knows.

It is also possible for they, then procure second hand light carrier that going to be retire from active fleet, then use that as prove of concept for UAV carrier. It can be much more economical, as potentially that light carrier still have two decades life time after conducting extensive refurbishment. Again, who knows.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

UAE Procures LPD from Indonesian Shipbuilder PT PAL - Naval News

UAE signed a contract worth $408 million with the Indonesian shipbuilder PT PAL for the procurement of a 163-meter LPD.

www.navalnews.com

Al Maryah class LPD, that UAE's 163m Makasar derivative class LPD is actually being talk as next amphibious class that TNI-AL also going to take. It is basically Makasar class on steroids with better SEWACO and more automations. It is cost around 9 times then standard Makasar class LPD.

Then this talk of LHD come out, which from what I heard because guys in MinDef thinking more on UAV, amaze what UAV can do in Ukraine-Russia war, and they're being attracted to Turkiye UAV carrier concept.

In the end money talk, and LHD will cost at minimum twice of LPD with Al Maryah specs. When all those money calculation come to overall budget on naval build up wish list, will see if LHD still fall on priority list. PAL CEO talk on getting this LHD timetable to 2028 (on previous presentation), but then the Navy also talk for numbers of Frigates, Corvettes, Submarines toward next term.

Somehow I just don't see LHD meet the affordability budget calculation on that fleet 'development' list. Then again it is Indonesia after all, priority logics can be recalculate and sacrifices for something shiny that meet political image building. Who knows.

It is also possible for they, then procure second hand light carrier that going to be retire from active fleet, then use that as prove of concept for UAV carrier. It can be much more economical, as potentially that light carrier still have two decades life time after conducting extensive refurbishment. Again, who knows.

Its funny to see that they still using data from the potential Malaysian order for the capabilities

• 16 x PT-91 tanks
• 6 x AV-8 MPAVs

in this article.

I wonder in what stage the construction of this ship is. PAL is able to build LPDs and hospital ships at quite a high speed, but the UAE one is much larger and more advanced than the previous ships.

 

[76mmGuns]

Perhaps Indonesia saw how impressive Australia's Canberra Class LHD's were at showing the flag, at showing that Aust is a wealthy country. Indo getting this huge vessel shows Indonesia has "made it", perhaps. They don't even need to fit it out with expensive gear to make it a command ship. I mean, Thailand can boast they have a carrier, and it's tiny. If nothing else, the LHD will make a good disaster relief ship, which is very handy to have in SEA.

 

[Ananda]

Yes, I agree the drive to have LHD at this stage mostly more to Political PR then real capabilities build up. That's why in my previous post I said that it can happen in Indonesian case. Politically, image building can be more important.

For that I recommend and hope they just buy second hand carrier, refit that as command ship and UAV carrier. That way, the brass and politicians in MinDef can have their image building, but still have money left to build better capacity to the navy.

Cause having completely reasonable non political image building in Indonesia decision making is simply not fall through under current political environment. Thus the best way as local enthusiasts like me can hope is middle compromise but with sanity check.

 

[swerve]

Ive never heard before that PAL was cooperating with/bought a design from Navantia for an LHD-program. I thought there are just some wish/dream/fantasy designs based on a 150 m long civilian tanker. It is also remarkable that they talking about a 243 m design, much larger than the Canberra and Anadolu class LHDs which have an (almost) identical length compared to the Juan Carlos I.

243 metres isn't much larger. Juan Carlos is 231. It's only 5% longer.

 

[Ananda]

Several countries interested in buying ex-Spanish Navy Aircraft Carrie

Several countries interested in buying ex-Spanish Navy Aircraft Carrier Principe de Asturias

armyrecognition.com

More then a decade news, however shown the interest for a carrier has been there all along.

It is reported that Indonesia already expressed interest in the vessel earlier this year. Following an official visit by TNI AL (Indonesian Navy) delegation to the El Ferrol naval base however, Indonesia decided not to purchase the aircraft carrier.

Similar pattern now shown when TNI AL already make another visits to another potential second hand light carrier that's schedule to be retire soon. Personally I don't like it, not understand why they not learning from Thailand light carrier situation, but then again understand on political attraction for some brass in MinDef to exert image building, especially with domestic audiences.

Still if this indulgence adventure for LHD can be hold back even temporary with a second hand carrier, when realism of costs to maintain and operating carriers can shown depriving Naval capabilities (as Thailand case shown), then perhaps it's better to be entertained.

 

[Ananda]

Dearsan

www.dearsan.com

TNI AL datangkan kapal PPA dari Italia dan Fregat buatan Turki

Jajaran TNI AL akan memperkuat kekuatan militer dengan mendatangkan kapal perang untuk berpatroli atau yang biasa disebut Pattugliatore Polivalente ...

www.antaranews.com

Officially anyway there're no talks from TNI-AL on carrier or LHD. So far they're talking on Frigates and Submarines for foreseeable future. In latest media announcement, TNI-AL Chief talk about Italian Frigate (PPA) but also Turkish Frigate. PPA schedule later this year, however he mentioned the Turkish Frigate will come in two years.

PPA can come earlier as basically Indonesia taking over two of already build Italian PPA. However the only Frigate program that Turkiye build is Istanbul (Milgem) class frigate. Also so far the potential export according to Turkish sources is within the region in middle east.

Now some local defense enthusiasts and insiders, including the Frenchie Salesman talk about potential Daersan F-142 as the Turkiye offer to Indonesia. Base on Daersan offer in last Indodefense 2022.

During Indodefense one other Turkiye shipyard TAIS also offer their 65m Fast Missiles Boats. The deal then shown they are working with Indonesia Batam base shipyard Palindo to license and build the design in there. Will Daersan doing the same thing ? As basically F-142 still a paper design.

Still more detail information needed on this Turkiye Frigate. However so far with Arrowhead 140 and PPA have in common of 140+m dimensions and 5500-6000 ton weight. Something that F-142 also have similarities.

One thing for clear, any other Frigates outside Red-White/Arrowhead and Submarines outside Scorpene will be build outside PT. PAL yards. Whether this will be overseas Yard or local Yard with license or Work Share agreement, that's not clear yet.

With all this in the schedule build up plan, personally I just don't see LHD can be afforded. Well what do I know anyway.