Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Another KRI doing sea trial. This is KRI Canopus thw Hydrograpic Vessels that hull being build in Batam and instalation in Abeking-Rasmussen yard in Germany. This is also the vessels that being prepare for DSRV mother ship.

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Photo from Abeking-Rasmussen being upload online by Keris FB.
 
Another KRI doing sea trial. This is KRI Canopus thw Hydrograpic Vessels that hull being build in Batam and instalation in Abeking-Rasmussen yard in Germany. This is also the vessels that being prepare for DSRV mother ship.

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Photo from Abeking-Rasmussen being upload online by Keris FB.
I have a question, you say the hull is build in batam and the installation is done in Germany. How do they transport the hull to Germany? Isnt that kinda dangerous to tow over such a long distance or is it transported on a bigger ship?
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
You can see the transport here:

It's onboard a Rolldock semi-submersible heavy-lift ship.
 
You can see the transport here:

It's onboard a Rolldock semi-submersible heavy-lift ship.
Wow its a ship on a ship. Crazy to see. Thank you
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

TNI-AL official channel provide video on one of DSME 1400 (209 Derivatives). This is first time on my knowledge that TNI-AL make video dedicated to shown operational of one of their Submarine. Previously they only shown glimpse of interior.

Still not clear if Indonesia still want to continue the program for DSME 1400 second batch, or only move with to build license production with Naval Group on Scorpene NG. The strategy to fasten submarine build up so far that already being talk by MinDef sources:
  • Underlicense Production (Scorpene NG),
  • Continue Industrial Collaboration (other word on Final assembly with some modules done by overseas yard) with DSME (Hanwha Ocean) for 209-1400 batch 2,
  • Procure Second Hand Submarine as interim ones,
  • Procure Full Import submarine from overseas yard.
The first one is confirm ongoing project, the second one is not clear continuation of batch 2. At this moment all 3 batch 1 209-1400 being upgrade by PAL and Hanwha Ocean to rectifies the electrical problems and battery problems. Thus 2nd strategy seems will depend on the batch 1 retrofitting project result.

The 3rd and 4th ones being talk, but still under speculation. Potentially the 4th one will not be taken, but 3rd ones has more noises and rumours going to be decided soon. But thing can changes if Indonesia MinDef decide not going to continue batch 2 with Hanwha Ocean. It is possible even the number of Midget Submarine project with Italian DRASS can be increase to augment 209-1400 as litoral submarine project. In short asside #1 of Scorpene License Building, all other strategy still fluid.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Further info on TAIS and Bazan deal for two I Class (Istiff Class) Frigate. As mention before the end user will be TNI-AL, and Bazan act as Financier on credit line to Indonesia MinDef as procurer. Three way unusual deals being choose, as most Western FI that usually use by Indonesia, don't want to provide acceptable financing cost for procuring defense assets from Turkiye.

The info talk that the sixth and eighth Milgem project ships (thus the second and fourth Istiff Frigates), that being build for Turkish Navy, going to be export to Indonesia. This means Indonesia taking Frigates that using Turkish Navy standard. Similar deal that Indonesia done on getting 2 PPA from Marina Militare.

All this as PAL shipyard busy finishing Arrowhead 140 frigates program, and other shipyards in Indonesia so far only building up to Corvette size vessels. Thus like in Submarine, Indonesia seems taking multiple strategy to get new vessels ASAP, while still keep maintaining local production.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Xavier more explanation on Istif Class Frigate deal as Naval News article yesterday. This Frigate sensors will be configurate similar with Aselsan sensors that already exported to Indonesia.


On other side, the loosing Frenchie Salesman keep bit**ing on Turkish procurement trend. He should be gratefull tough that the French-Italian do still get order from Indonesia. He just can not acccept that instead MBDA-Thales-Leonardo systems, Indonesia also have Roketsan-Aselsan-Havelsan systems. Just being greedy salesman.

Anyway I put his channel if there's further development on procurement from Euro Land. 2nd batch of PPA already being lobby by Leonardo for sometime. It is also known that Leonardo offer Full Combat version and also upgrade package on batch 1 Light + version. What his channel not mention yet whether Leonardo offer to build the second batch in Fincantieri partner yard in Batam will happen or not.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
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Today PAL FB put graphic overlaying KRI Baladewa shown the image after installation. Seems indicating there will two installation contract work. First the installation on basic contract (thus only one 76mm gun), while second installation will focus the assets that being procured on FFBNW contract.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
KRI Teluk Manado 537 getting a full paintjob. Ten out of the 14 ships delivered to Indonesia are still active, but I have the feeling that the next 5-10 years the Teluk Gilimanuk/Hoyerswerda class needs to be replaced.


Some new nice photos from the PPA Thaon di Revel class fregat KRI Brawijaya 320 recently appeared on Twitter.
https://x.com/Jatosint/status/2018164785649496390

Including some awesome shots of the OTO Melara 127 mm gun.
 

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Ananda

The Bunker Group
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Photo circulate of at least 3 hull of KCR 60 of Tesco Indomaritim design being circulate online. The design shown they are KRI Belati sister ships (photo below).

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This KCR 60 have water jet propulsion system thus differentiate them from then propeller system of previous KCR 60 from PAL design.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
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Ship "Garibaldi" 551 at the Mar Grande Naval Station in Taranto awaiting departure to Southeast Asia for the final surrender to the Indonesian Navy.
I obey
#NaviMilitariItaliane #Garibaldi551 ⭐ #MarinaMilitare ⚓ #Italia #Indonesia #NaveGaribaldi #IndonesiaNavy
Already see this from the morning, and only got time to put this night. Seems this is quite strong rumour after see noises in enthusiats forum, that the transfer deal near completion.

The plan was to refit Garibaldi in Fincantieri yard in Italy, however there's rumours that the ship will be send to Indonesia Yard and Fincantieri will supervise the refit job either in Batam or Surabaya.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

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The second PPA for TNI-AL, KRI Prabu Siliwangi left La Spezia yesterday for Indonesia. This conclude the process of handing over 2 PPA that previously slotted for Marine Militate to TNI-AL.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
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Already see this from the morning, and only got time to put this night. Seems this is quite strong rumour after see noises in enthusiats forum, that the transfer deal near completion.

The plan was to refit Garibaldi in Fincantieri yard in Italy, however there's rumours that the ship will be send to Indonesia Yard and Fincantieri will supervise the refit job either in Batam or Surabaya.
I doubt PAL will have enough space for an aircraft carrier with such a long list of ongoing and planned projects. And i wonder what the maximum size of ships is other shipyards can handle.

Any more information about what systems will be upgraded/replaced/installed on the Guiseppe Garibaldi?
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
And i wonder what the maximum size of ships is other shipyards can handle.
Most Batam yards, whether Palindo, Noahtu or Batamec has capabilities to handle medium size tankers and cargo up to 40k - 50k tons, and have graving yard +/- 200m length Noahtu - Docking Repair - Noahtu Shipyard. This on paper Garibaldi size carrier still within their capacity to be handle.

If this is what's actually being discuss, I suspect either Palindo or Noahtu as potential. Palindo now part of Republikorp that has big lobby in MinDef. While Noahtu already sign coop agreement with Fincantieri as local partner.

However PAL CEO already try hard to get the deal, as it is prestigious deal for PAL. Including lobby to Parliament. This regardless they already behind schedule on retrofitting KRI Usman Harun let alone it's sisters, and the biggest yard already full. I suspect he will try to boast the capability of PAL MRO on naval ships as natural selection for Fincantieri partner on retrofitting Garibaldi.

Add:

PAL is set to become Holding company for SOE Shipyards. With this means other SOE shipyard will be include on overall PAL as group capacity. Question as other SOE shipyard has much bellow productivity then PAL, how this excess capacity will be in line to utilize.

Any more information about what systems will be upgraded/replaced/installed on the Guiseppe Garibaldi?
Initial Fincantieri offer for USD 400+ mio price tag mostly involve with price tag to retrofitted most of sensors and communication systems and from what I heard include replacing SAM system. Not clear if all the retrofitted package being offer will taken.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

Basically Turkish official try to counter their Media claim that two recently inaugurated I (Istif) class Frigate are going to Indonesia as part of agreement sign between Turkiye and Qatar at DIMDEX. Their statement basically saying this is just MoU, thus no effective contract yet.

Personally I still wish the deal not become effective, and Indonesia just focus with PPA and Arrowhead 140 (FMP) design.



In other hand seems the immediate target is to get Garibaldi to Indonesia. At least that what TNI-AL chief says with Media. Thus if the target is too get newly inaugurated I class frigate (as with PPA), then potentially he already mentioned that as immediate target.

Thus indication of potential lobbies on next Frigate asside 2nd batch of Arrowhead 140/FMP still not yet finish. My problem with Istif is simply it is basically still light frigate, and not much difference then SIGMA 10514 or other Corvetes in Inventory. Not something significant changes to TNI-AL inventory like FMP and PPA.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Reading this article above ( Indonesian Navy Wants Ex-Italian Aircraft Carrier to be Delivered Before October 5 - Naval News ) confirms again that the top priority for many in this country is to buy new defence equipment just to show off new stuff.
Like a child wanting a new toy not because he likes it, but to show off at school.


Basically Turkish official try to counter their Media claim that two recently inaugurated I (Istif) class Frigate are going to Indonesia as part of agreement sign between Turkiye and Qatar at DIMDEX. Their statement basically saying this is just MoU, thus no effective contract yet.

Personally I still wish the deal not become effective, and Indonesia just focus with PPA and Arrowhead 140 (FMP) design.



In other hand seems the immediate target is to get Garibaldi to Indonesia. At least that what TNI-AL chief says with Media. Thus if the target is too get newly inaugurated I class frigate (as with PPA), then potentially he already mentioned that as immediate target.

Thus indication of potential lobbies on next Frigate asside 2nd batch of Arrowhead 140/FMP still not yet finish. My problem with Istif is simply it is basically still light frigate, and not much difference then SIGMA 10514 or other Corvetes in Inventory. Not something significant changes to TNI-AL inventory like FMP and PPA.
I think the size of the MILGEM II frigates is not really a problem, after all they are still larger than the Van Speijk/Ahmad Yani class frigates they replace. But having again an additional different new class in the fleet is just not good. In my opinion four more SIGMA 10514 to replace the whole class was still the best, cheapest and fastest solution.

Six SIGMA 10514 frigates together with at least 2 PPAs and 2 Iver Huitfeldts is absolutely a capability improvement compared to the fleet of Ahmad Yani, Fatahillah and Ki Hajar Dewantara vessels.

And i hope TNI-AL will never gets that single Pohang class corvette.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
In my opinion four more SIGMA 10514 to replace the whole class was still the best, cheapest and fastest solution.
Sadly it is increasingly shown will never going to happen, as from last term PAL practically has no interest to continue the coop with Damen and MinDef support them. Those that continue have tractions with PAL, are Fincantieri, Naval Group and Babcock. So I don't think we can expect new Frigates from PAL will come from other then either one of those yards design.

As with Turkish TAIS, seems Republikorp Palindo that have more traction with them. Perhaps if Istif contract being activate, potentially further batches going to be handle by them. However no indication so far Damen will come back as partners on either with PAL or Republikorp group.

that the top priority for many in this country is to buy new defence equipment just to show off new stuff.
Like I said for sometime, the idea for Drones Carrier is basically that attract them to acquire Garibaldi. Plus the image of carrier as command ship. The talk for disaster relief etc, is more for Political sell. Whether that carrier later on have enough escort will be the question. It's been speculate that both PPA and potentially both FMP will be the escort.

While for back bone patrol duties will be handle by Corvettes (Like Diponegoro, Bung Tomo class), Indigenous design OPV and Light Corvettes, and Light Frigates. This light frigates need that somehow being speculate on the need for Interim Light Frigates whether ex PLAN Type 053h3 or ex JMSDF Abukuma.

And i hope TNI-AL will never gets that single Pohang class corvette.
The talk and Rumours seems indicating the possibility. This being use as interim Corvette until more indigenous OPV 98 design can come out.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Official on something that being rumoured for some time. Italy will conduct Garibaldi on free transfer scheme/Grant. However Indonesia will pay refit costs that going to be done or lead by Fincantieri.

What's being negotiated now how and where the refit being done. Indonesia seems negotiate Fincantieri conduct refit job in Indonesia yard to give Industrial experience. Off course that will create additional costs (to Fincantieri) compare being done in Fincantieri yards. Let's wait final decision and whose Indonesia Yard that Fincantieri agree to choose. Some rumours talk on Fincantieri aim this refit job to give them PPA second batch contract. Something that Babcock already got.
 
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