Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Ananda

The Bunker Group
From looking at it externally, it seems to me that the main problem is overlap. As in multiple agencies running similar ships for identical purposes. Mostly security/patrol. And often - e.g. KPLP - even in their own sub-agencies or departments that only handle that task without other duties.
Seems that's what the essence the Naval Chief arguments. KPLP and Bakamla for example has overlap, but also Customs with Bakamla. The Naval Chief also talk about the better coordination on his time at Bakorkamla.

However by close to end of his deliberation he shown preference on one united agency as Coast Guard. From my understanding he prefer that on the idea of streamlining bureucracy for better budget management plus the need to have one agency for 2nd line of maritime defense in time of emergency.


The operational costs of maintaining multiple fleets shouldn't differ much from having them aggregated under one agency,
hope that with the disappearance of the current concurrence/rivalry mentality between the entities, the performance in general will increase
This is actually very related to Indonesian bureucracy problem. Multiple agency can have advantage on the environment of already efficient management. Indonesia Bureucracy is not on that situation. Thus consolidate agencies into one especially when too much overlaping function is actually provide better budget management. The most importantly clearer jurusdiction thus reducing the under the table costs. I bold that, as that's the main problem for a country with bureucracy mentality like Indonesia (and for that matter most Global South).

For example fuel costs, it is not a secret that fuel procurement costs have differed payment procedures on each agency. Eventough all being procure from single provider Pertamina. No secret it is because some "cake" slicings need for each agency bureucracy. One unified agency hopefully will reduce it, not eliminate as this is Indonesia afterall. Fuel costs is one of main factor on fleet preperadness.

With the added difficulty of being a federal country.
With regards to Indonesian centralised government, reducing agency can provide better command structure. Despite increasing autonomy in provinces, Indonesia still maintain strong central government nature. I once after Soeharto fall, was supporter for federalisation of Indonesia. However in few years after that realise Indonesia not build for Federalisation and perhaps never will. It is build since the time of Dutch East Indies to have strong central government, and it need continue to have that to properly function.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
To Add on Coast Guard legislation, there are three options that heard being discussed.
  1. Recreating Bakorkamla but with stronger jurisdiction,
  2. Unified Coast Guard with potentially Bakamla as surviving entity,
  3. Bakamla absorb some agencies but some other will stay.
#1 clearly what most of agencies outside Bakamla hope for. They can keep their bureucracy cake exist. However seems Military (TNI) less prefer this. TNI like all military wants strong command structure, and they preference are one agency that they can coordinate. With an ex General as president and he still maintain strong military mentality, I don't think option #1 has strong support from administration.

#2 clearly preference from TNI, but there're some agency that already have their own legislations back. The CG legislation seems going to render and overide legislation that give KPLP and Fisheries Protection jurusdiction. However Maritime Police and Custom will be problematic as National Police has their own, and Custom related to national revenue function.

#3 in my opinion that potentially can be choose. With Bakamla taking over KPLP and Fisheries Protection, while dividing jurisdiction with Maritime Police. Perhaps Maritime Police will have jurisdiction over riverine and near coastal and Bakamla as Coast Guard more on external coastal and ZEE. This will be in line with TNI-AL vision that CG will support them as 2nd line of reserve defense function. Custom can be a tossup, but in my opinion more likely still survive but under coordination with CG on doing Maritime duties.

#2 and #3 will take years on transition but can be fasten by need to forcefuly change some bureucracy cultural ego. Bakamla and KPLP for example have their own academic training and this need to be consolidate first, as this is why the rivalry begin. Some bureacrats need to let go. KPLP and Fisheries also has less political support, unlike Police and Custom that belong to MoF.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
This Twitter post was placed yesterday, 29 April, a new AS565 MBe helicopter is recently delivered to Disnerbal/Puspenerbal. The Registration Code is HS-1302.


But i don't understand, is this a new delivery, or an upgraded/modified one? In 2019, the fifth AS565 MBe out of 10 ordered was already delivered, and we can see one of them having tailnumber HS-4209 in this article.

And i though there were originally 11 AS565 MBe helicopters ordered.
Is this delivery from a new order?
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
this delivery from a new order?
I believe it is still part of that order. No info of additional order of Panther. What being talk is getting bigger Helicopter when bigger Frigate like PPA or FMP already operational.

There's talk Airbus offering H225 with ASW-ASuW kits. There's talk on getting Romeo type especially if Army get S70. Panther being procure because it is the class that can fir on TNI-AL Corvette and Light Frigate. Still better in my opinion they fit all Panther with ASW-ASuW kits, as from what I gather only 4 of them already equipped with those kits. The rest still in transport mode.


Naval News article talk on the Navy Chief parliament briefing regarding establishment of unified Coast Guard Agency. However it is talk more on:
  • Navy intention building underwater surveillance system,
  • Navy progress in building integrated database and centralised surveillance center.
The Sosus type system from what I heard will be focus on ALKI 1 first. That's the archipelago sea lanes that Indonesia opening for International routes. ALKI 1 is from what I heard getting priority because it is the shallow but also the most traffic ones. ALKI one include Sunda Strait and Riau Islands waters near Singapore and Malaca Strait. ALKI 2 and 3 will be targeted on later period because it is deeper waters. ALKI 2 are lanes from Lombok Strait to Makasar Strait, While ALKI 3 is sea lanes from Halmahera to Timor Sea.

The talk on fuel cost liabilities that Navy incurred from national oil company Pertamina is what I also point out from time to time on their operational budget. This is in the situation where they are not yet operating large Frigates let alone Destroyers as their ambition.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
On this video few days ago, Navy Chief also talk about Italian Frigate, Turkish Frigate and Submarine program with PAL as the current and next program that will coming to TNI-AL inventory.

This is why Frenchie salesman increasing attacking Turkification trend in Indonesia defense procurement as asside Rafale and Scorpene, his team sales project lossing ground.

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This is the talk that increasing getting louder. Istif Frigate with VLS equip Hisar O missiles. Not saying this will be the winner (this is Indonesia after all, and nothing certain until payment being made, as contract that has not reach payment stage still can be anulled). However despite all the noise, for me it is more reasonable then Frech FDI (which being talked as the 2nd strongest contender).

Istif Frigate basically still consider as Light Frigate, only slightly larger then Sigma PKR. Hisar O is only have slight better range then VL Mica. Considering their operational budget problem, problem to pay fuel bill in time, the fleet of Large Patrol/OPV, Corvette and Light Frigate are better still become the back bone of the fleet just as present condition. Just add few Larger Frigates to satisfied the political 'ego' and image building, and let those opv's, corvettes and light frigates do the real work.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

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TNI-AL send two of it's domestically build vessels to participate in Singapore IMDEX 2025. Fast Missile Boat KRI Kerambit and it's new VIP Corvette KRI Bung Karno. The vessels will then participate in Fleet Review sometime during IMDEX.

Personally again I can only wish that this odd VIP Corvette will be the sole example, and later build of this class will be base on it's half sister KRI Bung Hatta that recently just being hand over to TNI-AL (Picture Below). Wish that one that being send as it is better representative of Domestic Build Corvette (as I believe as the intention also in sending KRI Bung Karno).

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Ananda

The Bunker Group
This come from one of Indonesian Enthusiast X account Defenart.

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Shown instalation of Leonardo Super Rapide 76mm gun on lead ship of OPV 98 KRI Raja Haji Fisabillilah. This type of gun reportly will also going to be installed on 80m Corvette KRI Bung Hatta (picture above).

This two class of domestic build Corvettes hopefully will become the Parchim class replacement. Thus become the backbone of TNI-AL escort patrol fleet. Whatever the future plan for large Frigates like PPA and FMP, Corvettes and Light Frigates should be the backbone as reality of operating budget still shown those types are more fitted for TNI-AL situation.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
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From Keris FB that got it from TNI-AL online media. Shown preparation of TNI-AL crew in Italy for taking over first of two PPA, KRI Brawijaya. The plan that's being circle on, they will bring back KRI Brawijaya within two months.

Quite fast schedule, and I suspect if they are on schedule to bring KRI Brawijaya to Surabaya by end of this month or early June, some Italian instructors will accompany them.

For that I doubt the talk to send this Vessels to Russia as Indonesian representative on July Russia Naval Days can be done. The crew still need more time to adjust with the ship.

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If they want to send Vessels paricipating in Russia Naval day, I suspect either Makasar LPD, Sigma Light Frigates or this Tarakan class tanker will be the choice. Afterall as Image building, send Indonesian build ships for long range sea voyage will be more fitting.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
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Talking about FFBNW, just to remind that as Light+ configuration, both PPA KRI Brawijaya and KRI Siliwangi in essence are FFBNW vessels. In sense it will be not much differ as FMP as contracted.

Base on PAL slides above (already put this sometime ago), the level of FFBNW for FMP frigate actualy not too bad. The only electronics still in FFBNW contract are the 3D survailence radar, while most other sensors already in fitted contract.

So even many local enthusiats wants FFBNW policies being discard, but realistically on budget issue will always happen. However if the practises of FFBNW in FMP can be clues on future practises, it is not too bad.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
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From Keris FB that got it from TNI-AL online media. Shown preparation of TNI-AL crew in Italy for taking over first of two PPA, KRI Brawijaya. The plan that's being circle on, they will bring back KRI Brawijaya within two months.

Quite fast schedule, and I suspect if they are on schedule to bring KRI Brawijaya to Surabaya by end of this month or early June, some Italian instructors will accompany them.

For that I doubt the talk to send this Vessels to Russia as Indonesian representative on July Russia Naval Days can be done. The crew still need more time to adjust with the ship.

View attachment 52868

If they want to send Vessels paricipating in Russia Naval day, I suspect either Makasar LPD, Sigma Light Frigates or this Tarakan class tanker will be the choice. Afterall as Image building, send Indonesian build ships for long range sea voyage will be more fitting.
Maybe it is better that Indonesia send the KRI Soeharso 990 or another hospital ship to St. Petersburg for Naval Day. TNI-AL has only two SIGMA 10514 frigates and the Makassar Class has a longer range than the SIGMA frigates, besides that the hospital ships of the Russian Navy are quite old and worn out, so it will be also a good promotion tour for PAL's products.


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Talking about FFBNW, just to remind that as Light+ configuration, both PPA KRI Brawijaya and KRI Siliwangi in essence are FFBNW vessels. In sense it will be not much differ as FMP as contracted.

Base on PAL slides above (already put this sometime ago), the level of FFBNW for FMP frigate actualy not too bad. The only electronics still in FFBNW contract are the 3D survailence radar, while most other sensors already in fitted contract.

So even many local enthusiats wants FFBNW policies being discard, but realistically on budget issue will always happen. However if the practises of FFBNW in FMP can be clues on future practises, it is not too bad.
One of the positive points of the PPA Thaon di Revel Class ships is that they were built for the Marina Militare, so they are already fully equipped as PPA Light+ ships. If they were locally made, then they would be only equipped with standard navigation radar, machine guns, and a second/third/fourth hands old main gun robbed from an antique retired vessel.
 

tonnyc

Well-Known Member
Maybe it is better that Indonesia send the KRI Soeharso 990 or another hospital ship to St. Petersburg for Naval Day. TNI-AL has only two SIGMA 10514 frigates and the Makassar Class has a longer range than the SIGMA frigates, besides that the hospital ships of the Russian Navy are quite old and worn out, so it will be also a good promotion tour for PAL's products.
KRI Soeharso is over 20 years old and I believe that if the idea is to promote the Makassar class, sending new ships will be better. The idea itself is sound though. Either KRI Dr. Wahidin 991 or KRI Dr. Radjiman 992 would be a good choice.

Of course, I am not an admiral so it's not like the navy will listen to me. :)
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Italian and Japan Frigates come to Jakarta since yesterday. Since the procurement of those two PPA happen after Marina Militare send one PPA to visit, raise another speculation of another procurement. So which one is the potential new 'interim' frigate ?

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Or this one that the Navy delegation come to visit yesterday in their ship yard:

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It's been speculate that Prabowo's administration want 6 new Frigates at least coming to operation fleet before 2029 or last year on this term. 4 already procure and building (2 FMP and 2 PPA), thus the question will be which the last 2 coming from.

Add:
Prabowo's administration want PPA style procurement. So either 2 that already operational (thus 2nd hand ones) or getting 2 of Frigates currently already being build. Just like Marina Militare that sacrificed 2 of their current production PPA. At least that's the rumours.
 

x100 XKR

New Member
If the PPAs are built in the Light+, there should be VLS and their Asters then?

For these FFBNW config - I am always curious on how they are built inside actually. There is a Naval News video about Tarlac class of the Phil Navy, and the ship was built FFBNW, and to my recollection - there were no real CIC. When the time comes for the real radars, CMS and other weapon systems, how do they get installed? Like all conduits, wirings provisions etc are there already - and some of the empty rooms then get outfitted and converted?
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
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Seems the OPV 90 design get go ahead for further productions. This third one will still base on similar design then the first two, however build on different yards.

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Got this from TNI-AL sites as two decade plan on C6ISR. As the slide shown, it will focus on three ALKI (Indonesian Archipelago Sea Lines) choke points. This include both surfaces and underwaters sensors and survailences systems.


the PPAs are built in the Light+, there should be VLS and their Asters then?
Yes and it seems will be ASTER 30.

Like all conduits, wirings provisions etc are there already - and some of the empty rooms then get outfitted and converted?
Yes FFBNW means they already have installations place being build on, but not yet fitted with.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Some good news. TNI-AL has intercepted a foreign fishingboat with 1905 kg drugs, including 1200 kg of cocaine. The illegal goods have a value of around Rp7.057.000.000.000. It will be better if the navy incinerate the drugs totally and not hand it over to the police, big chance the police will try to sell the stuff like they did with the thousands of smuggled 3 kg gas bottles which the navy handed over to the police.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Seems the OPV 90 design get go ahead for further productions.
Related to this:

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Terafulk shown their OPV 90 design, and base with already launched 2 OPV 90, the design shown much similarities.


Terafulk seems have designs that being used by much of Local Shipyards on OPV's, Patrol Ships, ROR Tankers, etc. So I do suspect when they are already publishing OPV 90 designs, there're potentials it will be use by more local Shipyards. The pattern so far shown that.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

From Keris FB on the video of TNI-AL crews trained under Marina Militare crews in managing TNI-AL first PPA KRI BRAWIJAYA. The schedule for training supposedly for three months. Thus it is expected the ship will be arrive to Surabaya Naval base by late August this year.

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Put screenshot from Keris FB video on the 16 Sylver VLS cells from this PPA. First of TNI-AL Frigates that equip with this class of VLS cells. Whether it is already equip with Aster 30 (as suppose to), that's another question.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
FMP, someone manage to take picture of the progress. Something that PAL try to hide so far. Guess their CEO try to keep up with the schedule and not want to be under scrutinized from the public on the progress.


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Part of Navy Chief and Defend Id visit to PAL couple days ago. The modules on the dock side seems shown as FMP/Arrowhead 140 modules.
 
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