Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Sandhi Yudha]

In the tradition of Indonesian defence procurement, then they decided to mix SSM not two but more the merrier.

1. Exocet MM40 Blk3,
2. Exocet SM39 Blk2,
3. Teseo MK2,
4. NSM,
5. Atmaca.
6. C705 Reverse Engineering program

The reason ? Why not.

Is it for sure that the Teseo will be ordered? As far as i know, for now the PPAs in Light+ configuration will be delivered without anti-ship missiles.
And the NSM, wasn't it just "rencana/ada keinginan/kemungkinan" to order a small amount for the KRI Glodok 688?

 

[Ananda]

NSM, wasn't it just "rencana/ada keinginan/kemungkinan" to order a small amount

Yes, but the program for that pocket missile boat (KSR) by Lundin still ongoing. Thus the potential for NSM still there.

PPA Light + is FFBNW for SSM, however the SSM that being design for is Taseo. Thus if they (TNI-AL) decide later on to fitting those ships as full config, more likely Taseo being the choices. Off course unless MinDef want to finance changes on equipments set up. Or just add some small amount of Taseo, Why Not.

On Paper the bulk of SSM should be Aselsan Atmaca and MBDA Exocet MM40 (and SM39 for Scorpene). However it doesn't stop some 'lobby' try to sneak in small amount of other SSM on 'special situation setups'. Why the allowed to lobby for special setups? Like I say before "why not"

Add:
Reverse engineering of C705 as domestic SSM still on going, but now being add with Aselsan lobby for Atmaca which some talk going to be license locally. Then why two program for 'national' SSM ? again why Not.

I love the 'chaotic' planning of "why not' procurement strategy. In the end it is left to the finance guys trying put some sanity checks. Why not.

 

[x100 XKR]

Yes, but the program for that pocket missile boat (KSR) by Lundin still ongoing. Thus the potential for NSM still there.

PPA Light + is FFBNW for SSM, however the SSM that being design for is Taseo. Thus if they (TNI-AL) decide later on to fitting those ships as full config, more likely Taseo being the choices. Off course unless MinDef want to finance changes on equipments set up. Or just add some small amount of Taseo, Why Not.

On Paper the bulk of SSM should be Aselsan Atmaca and MBDA Exocet MM40 (and SM39 for Scorpene). However it doesn't stop some 'lobby' try to sneak in small amount of other SSM on 'special situation setups'. Why the allowed to lobby for special setups? Like I say before "why not"

Add:
Reverse engineering of C705 as domestic SSM still on going, but now being add with Aselsan lobby for Atmaca which some talk going to be license locally. Then why two program for 'national' SSM ? again why Not.

I love the 'chaotic' planning of "why not' procurement strategy. In the end it is left to the finance guys trying put some sanity checks. Why not.

I would not be surprised at this stage, that somebody decided to come up with salvaging old Styx missiles from decommissioned Komar boats somewhere and call it a cost saving measure. Why not .... LOL.

 

[Ananda]

https://indonesiadefense.com/tni-al-dan-brin-kembangkan-riset-sistem-rudal-exocet-mm38/

They might be not going to salvaging old Styx/P-15 missile, but they are seems seriously thinking salvaging Exocet MM38. Thus the project for Nasional SSM (so far as I miss this before):
1. Reverse Engineering C705,
2. Licensing Atmaca,
3. Refurbishing MM-38.

Rather then focusing on one project, less divide the resources for multiple project for national missile program. Why not, more projects merrier.

Add:
Forgot to mention the 'shore based' SSM that now being lobby by Ukrainian Neptune (they still seriously lobby this), Chinese YJ-12E, and India-Russia Brahmos. Why they don't considering Atmaca or Exocet? Why Not, more missile is fun.

 

[x100 XKR]

https://indonesiadefense.com/tni-al-dan-brin-kembangkan-riset-sistem-rudal-exocet-mm38/

They might be not going to salvaging old Styx/P-15 missile, but they are seems seriously thinking salvaging Exocet MM38. Thus the project for Nasional SSM (so far as I miss this before):
1. Reverse Engineering C705,
2. Licensing Atmaca,
3. Refurbishing MM-38.

Rather then focusing on one project, less divide the resources for multiple project for national missile program. Why not, more projects merrier.

Add:
Forgot to mention the 'shore based' SSM that now being lobby by Ukrainian Neptune (they still seriously lobby this), Chinese YJ-12E, and India-Russia Brahmos. Why they don't considering Atmaca or Exocet? Why Not, more missile is fun.

Pokemon style missile program. Gotta catch them all!

 

[Ananda]

One of Indonesian Enthusiasts X account shown this US Embassy documents (seems already declassified) on Indonesian intentions in later part 70's for new ships whether used or new build. The deals doesn't come through, thus instead new Destroyer Escort from US, Indonesia then order 3 Corvette from Dutch, and similar thing with used Garcia class Frigate which then Indonesia procured Van Speijk class Frigate from Dutch too. Submarine from German instead refurbished US diesel Submarine.

All this also put TNI-AL then basically scratch US defense industry from future suppliers, and relies more from Euro side and some South Korea. Recently this trend goes to French, Italian and potentially Turkiye.

 

[Ananda]

https://www.tnial.mil.id/berita/78626/KASAL-PIMPIN-DELIVERY-DAN-UPACARA-PERESMIAN-SERTA-PENGUKUHAN-KOMANDAN-KRI-PRODUK-DALAM-NEGERI/?fbclid=IwY2xjawHOPGtleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHUvXTa5-Lo1-NhAoLORk7az5S-KjfJvsw7uns8xhv0ml0tUpsDIqJ4vGBw_aem_B3GNWmx9UulYKBfpXcJ7kg

https://www.tnial.mil.id/berita/78665/KASAL-SERAHKAN-KRI-HAMPALA-880-KEPADA-PANGKOARMADA-III-DALAM-ACARA-DELIVERY-CEREMONY-DAN-PERESMIAN-DUA-UNIT-KRI/

Another pair of 60m Patrol Boats (PC) 60, base on the design of Missiles Boats (KCR) 60. Just like KCR 40 that also being derive to PC 40. One good thing is they (TNI-AL) build more larger and relatively more stable 60m Patrol Vessels is good. However those are Vessels that are more suitable as maritime constabulary duties.

Something that should be handled by Coast Guard. Again shown how TNI-AL still do not want to relegated most of maritime constabulary to coast guard. Thus the idea to build stronger Coast Guard are seems continue being hindered by more inter service rivalry. Not good sign of bureaucracy simplification drive.

Either way those 40m+ and 60m+ Vessels are relatively cheap to build and production chains capabilities disperse within Indonesian yards. It will give numbers to cover Indonesian waters.

 

[Ananda]

TNI AL Kirim Satgas ke Italia Terkait Pembelian Kapal Patroli

TNI AL akan mengirimkan Satgas ke Italia untuk menjadi bagian dari awak kapal patroli Pattugliatore Polivalente d'Altura (PPA) yang sudah dibeli RI.

nasional.kompas.com

TNI-AL will begin to send crews to Italy for preparation bring PPA to Indonesia. Before the team only consists the main officers, now they will begin to send the rest of the crews for familiarization.

 

[Ananda]

3rd Tarakan Class tankers KRI Balongan, being integrated to TNI-AL 3rd fleet in Sorong Papua. This Tarakan class tankers is domestic build, and has capability for RAS operation and can accommodate dry cargo asside liquoid. Before this class the only TNI-AL tanker that has abilities for RAS is ex RN Rover class KRI Arun. With this means all 3 TNI-AL fleet has Tankers with that capabilities.

 

[swerve]

3rd Tarakan Class tankers KRI Balongan, being integrated to TNI-AL 3rd fleet in Sorong Papua. This Tarakan class tankers is domestic build, and has capability for RAS operation and can accommodate dry cargo asside liquoid. Before this class the only TNI-AL tanker that has abilities for RAS is ex RN Rover class KRI Arun. With this means all 3 TNI-AL fleet has Tankers with that capabilities.

Is this an indigenous design, or a derivative or licence built? Hard to find any more than the length online. There are some reports that it's 2400 tons, but that's obviously wrong. Maybe it's the tonnage of fuel the class can deliver.

Seems a useful capacity, & another example of Indonesia's growing self-sufficiency in naval shipbuilding.

 

[Ananda]

This is the video from Terafulk Megantara design, a local Naval design company. They claim the design as their own. However I suspect they have design partner as subcontractor, especially for specific sub design projects. The video shown the sister ship KRI Bontang.

Yes as my understanding 2400 ton seems the amount of liquid fuel can carry. As also being talk from other sources that I saw of 5500-6500 cubic meter liquid fuel in the storage. From what I gather the Vessels full load around 5500 tons.

Still it is relative small tanker mostly I suspect to support Corvettes/Light Frigates fleet. It is smaller then the KRI Arun ex RFA Green Rover. Rumours talks on TNI AL asside Chile or Brazilian Navy shown potential interested with one or both ex RFA Waves class. For TNI-AL it is to replace KRI Arun. Rumours from finance people, that TNI-AL want to get ocean going tankers to replace KRI Arun. However at most on this term, they can only be allocate budget for second hand ones. Thus they are looking on potential ones from Euro zone.

 

[Ananda]

India jajaki kolaborasi teknologi rudal BrahMos dengan KSAL dan Menhan

Kepala Staf Angkatan Laut India Laksamana Dinesh K Tripathi menjajaki peluang kolaborasi teknologi rudal BrahMos dengan Kepala Staf TNI Angkatan Laut (KSAL) ...

m.antaranews.com

India Navy Chief visit Indonesia Navy Chief and Defense Minister. One of the aspects they are talking is Brahmos SSM. This Missile as in my previous post is being lobby for:
1. Shore Based SSM,
2. Ship Based SSM on VLS cells.

Indonesian teams as picture above shown already inspect 8 Cells Brahmos VLS in one of Indian Navy Ship. So far TNI-AL FMP (Arrowhead derivative) from PAL source still being talk to be equip by 4x6 VLS for SAM and 8x2 VLS for SSM. TNI-AL already have experience with Russian Yakhont (P-800) SSM from which Brahmos derived.

 

[Ananda]

RID Rivista Italiana Difesa - Assegnati nomi e distintivi ottici ai PPA per la Marina Indonesiana

Assegnati nomi e distintivi ottici ai PPA per la Marina Indonesiana

www.rid.it

Italian source confirm changing names already happening on 2 PPA Light Plus. The delivery schedule from Indonesian sources talk about March and Sept 25 delivery, thus 6 mo appart. However seems Italian ones talk 12 mo appart on delivery schedule.

Well so far 2 FMP/Arrowhead, 2 PPA now let's see if there will be another batch of 2 FMP and PPA. Or they repeat the tradition of 2 Frigate of another types.

 

[Ananda]

Keris FB put what seems satellite photo on the two Indonesian order PPA in Fincantieri berth. As previous post one will be call Prabu Siliwangi and another Brawijaya.

Cambio di nome per i Pattugliatori Polivalenti d’Altura (PPA) destinati all’Indonesia

La procedura per la consegna dei Pattugliatori Polivalenti d’Altura (PPA) Classe Thaon di Revel alla Marina indonesiana è entrata nel vivo. Presso lo stabilimento Fincantieri di Muggiano (SP) l’ormai ex Ruggiero di Lauria ha preso la designazione ufficiale di KRI Brawijaya (BWJ) con numero di...

aresdifesa.it

Another Italian source talk about renaming Ruggiero di Lauria and Marcantonio Colonna as Brawijaya and Prabu Siliwangi respectively. Italian Navy from other sources will reuse those name to 2 PPA Evo that will be order later on as replacement to the 2 PPA sold to Indonesia.

There's talk this 2 PPA later on being discussed with Fincantieri to be refitting as Full config from Light + present config. Fincantieri offer that the work will be done in Indonesia at their partner yard. This is part of Fincantieri offer for next batch of 2 PPA which offer also being build by Fincantieri in their partner yard. So far the partner yard being talk as Noahtu which also build OPV-90.

With Svlver VLS already being choose as part of this two PPA, will MBDA also going to get order for VLS on FMP being build by PAL? Despite talk on Aselsan-Roketsan VLS and Missile package for FMP, MBDA lobby still happening. TNI-AL seems wants MBDA package and also some in MinDef. However lobby for Turkiye suppliers also have strong backing so far.

Both MBDA and Aselsan-Roketsan from what I gather both argue on the sake of commonalities. The Turkiye suppliers argue commonalities of Siper missiles with future Army area SAM (Trisula Project), while MBDA talk on TNI-AL missiles ecosystems commonalities.

 

[Ananda]

This Frenchie Salesman really2 being more straightforward to directly try to influence public opinion toward NG FDI. Still he keep his hypocrite stance that he is just neutral defense consultant. He keep blocking tweet or response to his channels that call him salesman (including mine).

Well with this video, if some of his loyal followers did not understand how his channels being build up as marketing channels, it's beyond me.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia secures offset arrangements in contract for Italian PPAs

Jakarta has secured a slew of offset arrangements in its contract for two multirole offshore patrol ships (Pattugliatore Polivalente d'Altura: PPA) with Italian...

www.janes.com

Jane's claim to have documents stating Offset agreement that Indonesia got by procurement of 2 Fincantieri PPA. The talk of Electric Vehicles interest me, as Indonesian land defense company Pindad also already shown their works for EV. Thus I suspect this is Leonardo design on military base EV, that's being talk by that document.

Having naval simulator could also beneficial for Fincantieri, as shown potentially Indonesia want to invest more than 2 PPA.

 

[Ananda]

Bakamla officially enter manufacturing process to receive one Patrol Vessels/Cutter from Japan. The photo from Bakamla sites. At 86m+ it is seems base on Hateruma Class cutter from Japan Coast Guard. The signing is between Bakamla as user, JICA as fund provider and Mitshubishi Shipyard as builder.

Thus smaller then what Philippines Coast Guard receive which base from larger Kunigami class. Either way it is for me a sad situation for Indonesian Coast Guard that has to live with some hand out to enlarge their fleet. All in the situation where Maritime Constabulary duties increasingly demanding.

Seems the budget are focus on Navy that reduce any substansial left to Coast Guard.

 

[Ananda]

Japan to propose frigate development with Indonesia anew; seeks to East Asian enhance security cooperation

Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba plans to visit the country later that month, so Defense Minister Gen Nakatani’s visit in January is expected to lay the groundwork for a summit between Japan and Indonesia’s leaders.

asianews.network

Japan Proposes New Frigate Deal to Indonesia to Counter South China Sea Tensions

Japan Proposes New Frigate Deal to Indonesia to Counter South China Sea Tensions.

www.armyrecognition.com

Japan new PM want to propose Joint Development of Frigate. This seems a move to overcome some internal regulatory in Japan. Also this move aim to also enlarge Indonesian domestic yards capabilities. Still this move also being pursue by Frenchie and Italian. So will be interesting to see how this develop.

 

[Ananda]

https://indonesiadefense.com/bukan-ppa-ksal-sebut-fregat-merah-putih-akan-gantikan-kelas-ahmad-yani/

According to this local defense media, TNI-AL Chief stated PPA is not going to be replacement for Van Speijk/Ahmad Yani class. However the replacement will be Arrowhead 140 derivative Red-White Frigate (FMP). The replacement will be done gradually. Thus it means:

1. Strong indication now they are planning another batches of FMP. As if FMP are for replacing Van Speijk then they need another 4 of them. Could it be the joint statement in UK on Nov Indonesia: 'green water navy' related to Babcock further licensing agreement for FMP ?
2. It is also means PPA or another Frigate project are for additional capabilities.

This is quite important as throughout period, TNI-AL procurement is for replacement of obsolescence assets, and not additional capabilities.

 

[swerve]

One for one replacement of Van Speijk/Ahmad Yabi frigates by FMP would give additional capabilities, though exactly what would depend on the fitout. From what I've found online it will have more & far more capable SAMs, much more capable sensors, much longer range & endurance, etc. It should be much, much more capable than the Van Speijk class ever was.