Indian Nuclear & Missile Development, News & Discussions

[SABRE]

Due to continues violations of the forum by INDIANBULL, I am closing down all India related Threads under my jurisdiction until action has been taken by the Admin & Supermods.

The threads would be reopened after consultations with the Admin & moderators.

Meanwhile it is recommended to all the members not to open any new India related thread or a clone of the older ones.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[SABRE]

Thread Reactivated ​

 

[alphacentauri]

guys watch Indian BMD test here-drdo.org/bnews/anti_test/aadst.wmv

 

[niteshkjain]

indian missile program scrapped

happy new year guys

may be gurus will say this is not the appropriate thread to discuss, but I feel this is a relevant post for any indian thread.
just see this link

http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/55921/india-ends-missile-programme-makes-its-way-to-top.html

New Delhi, Jan 08: India today announced scrapping of the country`s strategic integrated guided missile programme, and said the development and production of most of futuristic weapons systems would henceforth be undertaken with foreign collobration.

However, longer range missiles, under-sea launched missiles and furturistic weapons systems like electronic counter-warfare measures would be "undertaken in-house", said one of the country`s top defence scientists Dr S Prahlada.

He said "closure" of the Integrated Development of Guided Missile Programme(IDGMP) had been done as manufacture of the most of the missiles to be developed under the project had been almost completed and inducted into the armed forces.

"Unlike post-Pokhran, when doors to technology transfers were closed on us", now doors of frontline armament technology transfer are now open", he said.

"New missile and weapons systems will be developed within a five-year time frame at low costs, with foreign partners and private industries" Prahalda, Chief Controller at DRDO headquarters, said.

The first of such ventures, Prahalda said, would be development of quick reaction missiles to counter threats from low-flying missiles and fighters and Astra, India first bid to develop a beyond-visual range air-to-air missile.

While India would be collobrating with Israel for development of surface-to-air upgraded spyder missiles, for Astra, New Delhi has roped in French and Russian collobrators.

 

[funtz]

Man you sure are letting people know about that IDGMP shut down.

While India would be collobrating with Israel for development of surface-to-air upgraded spyder missiles, for Astra, New Delhi has roped in French and Russian collobrators.

This is news, another joint venture with Israel, surprise surprise.
The upgraded spyder missile system? sounds on the lines of the upgraded barak/MR-SAM.

Astra with french and Russian help, the both of them?

However it is nice to know that more systems will be developed with foriegn nations, that will do more than just the development of new weapons.

 

[niteshkjain]

hey funtz
I am trying to find how credible this news is, I hadn't seeen such news till now in other channels. Hope the the current indigeneous programs under development will continue. Or it may be an attempt to put a firewall between indigenous sytems and collaboration ventures.

Gurus please comment

 

[funtz]

If you look at the news report the title says The IDGMP is being scrapped however in the report they say that it has almost met all of the set objectives, and hence has almost finished. Kind of Confusing :unknown I think that is the same with all CNN-IBN reports (at least to me)

From the report it seems that the program was initiated to achieve the Agni-Prithvi-Akash-Nag-Trishul etc. projects, and as they had no previous experience in building these weapon systems or the R&D infrastructure to develop these systems.
Now that the work is done, and no more sanctions are over the horizon, plus the added advantages of joint ventures with other nations, the need to have such a dedicated project has gone away. Except in weapon systems where the need for indigenous development will always exist

However, longer range missiles, under-sea launched missiles and furturistic weapons systems like electronic counter-warfare measures would be "undertaken in-house", said one of the country`s top defense scientists Dr S Prahlada.

They are quoting some one here, so this might be true, again with the media these quotes can be twisted a lot, so might as well wait for the DRDO announcement on the topic.

 

[SABRE]

The following news has been all over the internet & yet we have been missing out. I wanted an Indian to post it. Someone did, & even thrice, but all the three times in the 3 different & wrong forums.

Anyways here it is:


India scraps integrated guided missile programme

New Delhi, Jan 8 (PTI) India today announced scrapping of the country's strategic integrated guided missile programme, and said the development and production of most of futuristic weapons systems would henceforth be undertaken with foreign collobration.
However, longer range missiles, under-sea launched missiles and furturistic weapons systems like electronic counter-warfare measures would be "undertaken in-house", said one of the country's top defence scientists Dr S Prahlada.

He said "closure" of the Integrated Development of Guided Missile Programme(IDGMP) had been done as manufacture of the most of the missiles to be developed under the project had been almost completed and inducted into the armed forces.

"Unlike post-Pokhran, when doors to technology transfers were closed on us", now doors of frontline armament technology transfer are now open", he said.

"New missile and weapons systems will be developed within a five-year time frame at low costs, with foreign partners and private industries" Prahalda, Chief Controller at DRDO headquarters, said.

The first of such ventures, Prahalda said, would be development of quick reaction missiles to counter threats from low-flying missiles and fighters and Astra, India first bid to develop a beyond-visual range air-to-air missile.

While India would be collobrating with Israel for development of surface-to-air upgraded spyder missiles, for Astra, New Delhi has roped in French and Russian collobrators.

-------------------------------

India closes down missile programme

NDTV Correspondent

Tuesday, January 8, 2008 (New Delhi)

It is all over for India's first missile development programme launched in 1983 under APJ Abdul Kalam.

The programme has been plagued by cost and time over runs, but according to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), India has developed most of its missiles under this programme.

These include the surface-to-surface Agni missiles, the shorter range Prithvis, the surface-to-air Trishul and long-range surface-to-air Akash missiles.

The fourth generation anti-tank missile Nag is the only one yet to be inducted. The DRDO said future projects will be taken up with foreign collaboration.

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080038068



​

 

[kams]

If you look at the news report the title says The IDGMP is being scrapped

Oh crap, I had a long post, lost it all some how! Let me try again.

Here is the PIB release,

It has been reported in a section of the media today that “Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) as a Strategic Programme stands Scrapped”.

It is hereby clarified that except for Agni demonstrator, which was successfully completed in 1989, all other projects under IGMDP are related to Tactical Missiles such as anti-tank Nag, short range Trishul, medium range Akash and Prithvi for artillery role with conventional warheads. All these missiles have since been developed. All are entering Service in one form or other. With this, objectives of IGMDP originally envisaged stand completed.

Strategic Missile Program is entirely indigenous and is being pursued through a number of separate projects. All of them are progressing as per schedule and no Strategic System has been scrapped.

link

BTW most of the reports got the acronym IGMDP and the full name wrong!

Agni III, Agni III+, Agni IV, Sagharika, Nirbhay, PAD/AAD were not a part of IGMDP. They had separate budget. These missiles are part of strategic program and will be completely indigenous. Couple more will join the above like Ashwin.

Coming to collaborative efforts, we have Brahmos, Brahmos II, Bark 8, Barak NG, Astra (seeker from France), Maitri (France) amongst others.

BTW there is no project based on Spyder! LLQRM project is Maitri. Spyder is just stop gap measure.

India spent $390 million on IGMDP and from that peanut we have Prithvi I, Prithvi II, Dhanush, Agni I, Agni II and Aakash inducted, Nag ready for trial this summer.

One has to read 'Wings of Fire' to understand full implication of IGMDP and it's significance to the Nation. The objective went far beyond producing missiles. It is through IGMDP, India broke the back of all technology denial regimes put against her. I find it particularly hilarious that same regimes are scrambling to set up shops in India, so that they can get a piece of the pie.! So I say IGMDP has fully met it's objective.

 

[noseeum]

India might find the road easier, but will need to remain vigilant. There are often unforseen costs associated with this approach.

 

[niteshkjain]

sabre got your point will follow the rules now onwards

I had got one more link contradicting to the previous one kindly find it

http://www.*************.com/reports-3687

It has been reported in a section of the media today that “Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) as a Strategic Programme stands Scrapped.

It is hereby clarified that except for Agni demonstrator, which was successfully completed in 1989, all other projects under IGMDP are related to Tactical Missiles such as anti-tank Nag, short range Trishul, medium range Akash and Prithvi for artillery role with conventional warheads. All these missiles have since been developed. All are entering Service in one form or other. With this, objectives of IGMDP originally envisaged stand completed.

Strategic Missile Program is entirely indigenous and is being pursued through a number of separate projects. All of them are progressing as per schedule and no Strategic System has been scrapped.

 

[funtz]

That about does it, nothing right has ever come out of CNN-IBN about these issues, even though defense journalists are free to fall to the standards of absolute bickering, there has to be some guiding logic, a force of reason. This is journalism after all.

And to top it, still no apology for another twisted news report, even after apparently the government has issued a statement.

 

[nevidimka]

What about the tomahawk ctyle cruise missile that is being developed by DRDO? they are scrapping that too?

 

[Titanium]

all other projects under IGMDP are related to Tactical Missiles such as anti-tank Nag, short range Trishul, medium range Akash and Prithvi for artillery role with conventional warheads. All these missiles have since been developed. All are entering Service in one form or other. With this, objectives of IGMDP originally envisaged stand completed.

One form or the other ,
I don't think Anti-tank missile has entered in any form.
Trishul-Short range- don't find any mention of it either entering service in any form:unknown .

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys,welcome helina ,helicopter launched nag antitank missile,which is now being developed by the drdo.

the nag has to undergo a final set of trials after which it would be inducted into the indian army as the akash was inducted into the indian airforce.

here check out this link and article it also contains some interesting information on the nag anti tank missile's capabilities :



http://www.hindu.com/2008/01/28/stories/2008012854750700.htm

Anti-tank Nag missile to be ready by year-end








HYDERABAD: The advanced, third generation, hit-to-kill anti-tank Nag missile is expected to be inducted into the Army by the year-end after the completion of the user trials.
“We are ready to induct in large numbers by November-December as the user trials are planned to be completed by June,” S.S.Mishra, project director (Nag), told The Hindu. During the user trials, seven missiles of the land version would be fired against static and moving targets.
Superior range


The land version of the indigenously-developed tactical weapon system was superior in terms of range (four km) to the Javelin of the US and the Spike of Israel. With the army recently seeking an air-borne version, DRDO scientists have begun work on developing such a variant by extending the range to seven km. The air-borne version named ‘Helina’, to be mounted on an ALH helicopter, would be ready in two-and-a-half years, as the system had to be reworked.
Mr. Mishra said the third-generation missile was a ‘truly fire-and-forget’ system. Unlike the first-generation system, in which the operator had to track and guide manually, Nag was entirely autonomous from launch-to-impact to ensure ‘zero-miss distance.’
Top attack capability


Equipped with imaging infrared seeker (IIR), it has ‘lock-on-before launch’ (LOBL) capability with the seeker tracking the target even before firing.
The missile, which could be operated during day and night, has "top-attack" capability. Since all modern tanks are fitted with explosive reactive armour (ERA) to negate the effect of a missile’s warhead, the lethal capability of Nag had been increased by enabling it to carry one of the most powerful tandem warheads ‘to defeat futuristic battle tanks’. When the missile is fired, a pre-cursor charge would initially tackle ERA, followed by the main charge within 250 microseconds. “That way the effect of the ERA is nullified,” he said.
Typically each ‘Namica’, a dedicated missile carrier, would have 12 Nag missiles, eight of them in ready-to-fire mode. The missile has 10-year, maintenance-free shelf life.

 

[nero]

what happened to the dhanush programme???

has it been aborted too ????

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys ,interesting news here,it seems that the drdo is ready to test a double layered ballistic missile defence system capable of taking missiles of 2000 kms range.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEQ20080129011244

BALASORE: After successfully conducting exo-atmospheric (outside the atmosphere) and endo-atmospheric (within the atmosphere) interceptor missile tests, defence scientists are now planning a double-layered anti-ballistic missile (ABM) system.

‘If all goes according to plan, the two-stage ABM interceptor test will be carried out this June,’ a source at the defence base at Chandipur-on-sea told this website’s newspaper.

The scientists of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) would launch the two-layered missiles to intercept a single incoming target missile in both exo-atmosphere (above 40 km altitude) and endo-atmosphere (below 30 km altitude).

This new ABM system is being developed to counter enemy ballistic missiles. It has been configured with radars for long-range surveillance, tracking, command, control, communication and perfect interception to destroy in-coming missiles.

‘The DRDO is capable of converting the two-layered system into a potent defence missile system, with a range of 2,000 km,’ a defence scientist said.

On November 27, 2006, missile interception at exo-atmosphere was successfully tested when a Prithvi Air Defence (PAD), a modified version of Prithvi missile, was fired to destroy an incoming target missile above 50 km altitude.

India achieved a major milestone on December 6 last when an interceptor missile, dubbed as advanced air defence (AAD), destroyed an incoming missile just 15 km above the surface.

Both the interceptors were, however, developed at the Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) in Bangalore.

The success of both the missions had boosted the confidence of the DRDO scientists in networking an array of radars, optics, command, control and communication systems to track an incoming missile in real time, validate all the software computation to develop the double-layered ABM system.

 

[aaaditya]

what happened to the dhanush programme???

has it been aborted too ????

dhanush was not a part of the igmdp programme ,it was just a technology demonstrator project for the navy,to develop the capability to launch ballistic missiles from the warships and submarines,i believe a naval variant of the agni-3 ballistic missiles will arm the indian navy submarines but definitely not the dhanush ,which has very less range.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys ,here is an interesting article on india's anti-ballistic missile aspirations.

here is the link and article:

http://www.upi.com/International_Se...4/bmd_watch_boeing_assesses_gmd_program/7436/


India plans Agni III test, new ABM super-interceptors

India said it last week it would be ready to test-launch its new Agni-III intercontinental ballistic missile next year.

The long-awaited Agni-III would be a strategic equalizer for India with China. Its projected 3,000-mile range would put almost all the major cities of China within range.

The Press Trust of India reported Jan. 7 that, V. K. Saraswat, chief controller of research and development for India's Defense Research and Development Organization, told reporters attending the 95th Indian Science Congress, "We are looking for (a) trial (flight) in early 2009."

Saraswat also confirmed that India's anti-ballistic missile program remained aggressively ambitious in its R and D goals. He said New Delhi was determined to build very high-speed anti-ballistic missile interceptors that could intercept and destroy intercontinental ballistic missiles with ranges of 3,000 miles.

"We are now going to build AD-1 and AD-2 -- high speed interceptors for engaging 5,000 kilometer -- 3,000 mile -- class targets," said Saraswat, who is also project director for DRDO's Air Defense wing told the reporters, according to another PTI report.

The new AD-1s and AD-2s would have the capability to shoot down ICBMs launched from deep inside the territory of potential enemy nations, Saraswat said.

"Currently, we have capabilities to defend ourselves from 2,500 km -- 1,500 mile -- range ballistic missiles. But suppose missiles are launched by our immediate neighbors from their rear formations, they will be using long-range missiles -- Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles and Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles. "We should now develop technologies to defend against them. That is our effort," he said, according to the PTI report.

That would give India the ambitious goal of building ABM interceptors comparable to the U.S. Ground-based Mid-course Interceptors, or GBIs, currently deployed around Fort Greely, Alaska, and Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif.. These GBIs are believed to be capable of enormous velocities of up to 20,000 mph or even 25,000 mph to make them capable of intercepting ICBMs in their mid-flight phase.

PTI also noted that India's DRDO rocket scientists and engineers had already over the past 18 months proved their ability to build anti-ballistic missile interceptors able to destroy incoming intermediate-range missiles at heights of up to 30 miles, or 150,000 feet outside the atmosphere, and at altitudes of nine miles, or 45,000 well within the atmosphere.

As previously reported in these columns. in November 2006, India successfully test-fired exo-atmospheric ABM interceptor that hit a target 30 miles height and in December 2007 it carried out a successful endo-atmospheric, or within-the-atmosphere test of an interceptor that hit its target at around 45,000 feet.

here is another interesting article which mentions about india's hypersonic reusable missile/aircraft which is expected to be tested in 2009.

here is the link and article:

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/India-to-test-5000-km-range-missile-in-2009/259136/


Visakhapatnam, January 7: India is slated to conduct trials of the next version of the ballistic missile with a strike range of more than 5000 km and the sophisticated hypersonic plane in 2009.
It will also develop long-range, high speed interceptors that can strike down missiles fired from deep within the enemy territory.
The Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) chief controller of R&D in missile systems sciences, V K Saraswat speaking at a plenary session in the 95th Indian Science Congress on Monday said that plans are afoot to build a floating test range to launch missiles in the next three years.
“ We are encouraged after our successful launch of Agri III. The next version of the long-range ballistic missile has been tentatively named as Agni III Plus and defence scientists are currently working on its design’, said Saraswat He said the DRDO will also test its indigenously developed hypersonic plane, which can be used as a reusable missile launcher. The vehicle, one which can launch missiles, land back and be loaded again for more missions, is expected to be capable of at least a hundred re-entries into the atmosphere. The hyperplane, which is likely to be the size of a MiG 25 fighter aircraft, will be able to take off from a conventional airfields. According to Saraswat high speed interceptors – AD-1 and AD-2 - would be for engaging 5000 km class targets.</I></B>

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys,check out this interesting article,it is an interview with dr prahlada,the chief comtroller of the igmdp programme,in this interview he explains in detail the closure of the igmdp,and also gives detailed listing of the akash surface to air missile's capabilities.

here is the link:

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-...Events&programId=1073754900&contentId=3552298

The Akash system is not just about a few missiles, but also about the three-dimensional radar, its command-control system and many other systems. How different is it from the systems that we have in service now?
Normal surveillance radars are two-dimensional. They tell you the range and the azimuth [of the target], not the height at which the targets are flying. A missile battery commander also would like to know at what height the enemy aircraft are coming. Our radar, developed by LRDE, tells you this. That is why it is called 3D Central Acquisition Radar [CAR]. We have offered it to the Navy for shore and ship-based surveillance, and to the Air Force for airport and air-based applications.
Then there is another radar in this system, which is a multi-function phased-array radar. This one can electronically scan, do surveillance, track a number of targets, acquire the targets, and guide the missiles towards the targets. All these functions it can do simultaneously, because it is electronically scanned beam. The whole Akash system is highly IT-integrated.

How does it operate in a battlefield condition?
Suppose there are four aircraft attacking a city simultaneously from one direction. A conventional surface-to-air missile system has a radar tracking a target. One radar handles one target. When the second target comes, it will have to leave the first. So you need more radars. What we have now developed is a multi-function radar. This radar is at the heart of the Akash system. It will guide the missile, track the target, and will do surveillance. It can handle multiple targets.

How many countries have this technology?
In the whole world, Russia, the US, France have operational multitarget-handling missile systems for surface-to-air application. China claims they also have it. China and Taiwan may be making it. So this has not proliferated like ballistic missiles.

Is it also being developed as a weapon-locating radar? India imported a few WLRs from the US.
It also has an application called weapon locating. We now offer this [to the Army], and trials are completed. This has superior features. This is of later generation [than the US-imported radars] and can handle more targets, has less weight, and is much cheaper. The Army has cleared 28 radars. You can say this is a fallout or spin-off from Akash.

What were the user's concerns about Akash? The services have always had problems with DRDO-developed systems.
First, they [IAF] wanted accuracy. It is accurate. We have demonstrated it nine times. It was perfectly accurate all the nine times. Then they wanted consistency. Nine flights, and not a single misbehaviour. The third concern was whether the complete weapon system, not just the missile, was ready. We have all that-the missile, the radar, the control centre, everything. In last month's test, we deployed all of them on the beach, where there was no existing infrastructure. We demonstrated the complete air defence function.

How does it work if deployed, say around Delhi?
You put the CAR. It looks for threats all around Delhi, finds out targets coming, alerts the battery. The batteries get ready, and the targets are assigned. Once the target is within the kill zone, the control centre will assign the target. All this is done automatically. The assignment has to be accepted by the battery, and priority is given. They will check whether the target is enemy or friend. Then the launcher is readied and checked. The moment the target gets assigned, the missile gets powered. The battery will know when the target will reach the optimum kill zone, when you have the highest probability of killing.

What is the kill probability?
On a single launch it is 88 per cent. Assured 88 per cent. So when the target enters the optimum kill zone, the commander gets a beep. Unless he has any other information, he will clear the launch. Then the missile is checked automatically, and it fires. When the missile flies, the radar tracks it. If the first missile does not take off due to any mistake, automatically a second missile gets launched.
Suppose the target is high priority, the commander would take no chances. He can then launch two missiles at the same target. One will go, and after 5 seconds the other will go. Then the kill probability is 99 per cent.
And it is most reliable. We were telling the Air Force that even if four out of five launches [done last month] succeed, you should take it. Some quality control problem, some loose wires, something not put correctly, can cause a problem in one or two. Even in imported, mature systems, produced in hundreds, a few could fail. But five out of five succeeded. Not even a single one misbehaved.

What about production? Can the industries take bulk orders now?
We took the people from the industry, and told them to talk to the user. All the hardware are made by the industry, private and public sector. They are ready for production. You place the order, and they will deliver. Now BDL and BEL are ready for serial production. We are now only facilitators.

DRDO projects have always been plagued by delays. This also has been.
We are late by five to eight years. I agree. We promised to give it in 2000. But technologically, it is not obsolete. This is still state-of-the-art. You can't get such a system elsewhere. We own up the delay, but the delay has not caused the system to be obsolete. It is also cost-effective. You cannot get such a missile system for the price. For an Air Force squadron the cost is approximately Rs 500 crore, one missile about Rs 2 crore. For this class, this accuracy and this range, you won't get another system. Plus it is indigenous. You can upgrade it as you want, change its software, you can produce it the way you want. You want one per month or ten per month you can get it. The whole investment is within the country. No rupee is going out.
We took 20-21 years to perfect the missiles in the IGMDP. You take Barak [of Israel] or Patriot [of the US]. They also took more than 20 years for the first systems to be developed. So we didn't take more. We have done as good as the best in the world. They won't take 20 years to develop the second missile. Nor will India.
Our mistake is that, initially, we said we will take 12 years, and we took 20 years. People were too optimistic, or thought that by giving an early date they could urge everyone to work better. We lost technologists in the 1990s in the IT boom. Then there were the sanctions after the nuclear test, when several components were denied.

There were reports that the IGMDP has been scrapped. Can you clarify?
The IGMDP had five parts-Agni was a technology demonstrator. Then there was Prithvi. The Army accepted it. The three tactical missiles took longer. It was expected that tacticals would take longer. The next was Trishul, over which we got into a technological problem. The Navy was in a hurry to fit their ships; they could not wait. So Trishul was almost taken out so that we could resolve the technical problems. It was successfully tested in 2006-07. The development was completed in January 2006. Then we did mobility test, air defence test, ECM trials. From January 2006 to December 2007, we did all the user-related activities. Akash is completed. We have some money left, but we close the project and give that money back to the government.

So it is not scrapping, but closing the programme?
The objectives as defined in the original project, when we got the government sanction, have been achieved. So we have completed it. The only one left is [anti-tank missile] Nag. By summer 2008, we will complete all the Nag-related work. By then all the IGMDP-related work would be over. These were five specific projects, and we are completing them.