Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

It could but it would be slow because it could take time to clear the flight deck?
But none the less its possible i'd imagine. The Russians did it on their Cruiser correct? how fast was it?

The Russians are a classic example of why STOBARs aren't competitive. They had shocking launch rates coupled with the fact that:

1) aircraft could not be max loaded
2) aircraft could not be fully fueled
3) staggered intermittent launches require aircraft to form up whilst all are launched - hence they burn extra fuel waiting for the rest of the flight to form up
4) it takes longer for an aircraft to get to full FMP and launch (and in the Russians case, bear in mind Points 1-3).
5) There is a corresponding reduction in max range as aircraft are burning it up on the STOBAR launch.

Clearing the flight deck does not alter the fact that they're compromised by Points 1-3.

A CATOBAR launch enables:
1) aircraft can be max loaded
2) aircraft can be fully fueled
3) aircraft are launched at FMP
4) aircraft can be rippled - and the flight forms up faster as they form up in pairs faster
5) USN carriers have double the number of launch slots, so they not automatically have double the launch rate, but they also ripple faster

STOBARs can't and don't have the ability to launch faster - it's an inherent limitation.

 

[dabrownguy]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

The Russians primary concern was the USN fighter squads. The Flankers could launch with full AA weapons correct? It has large amount of fuel anyways. I think there secondary concern was strike capability that came short. Russians did play a defensive role correct?
What bothers me is that they never seemed to fix the problem and move on to a complete CATOBAR. The Oreal class still uses a ramp and two cats but they launch some kind of AEW. Anyway these could launch fighters instead?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

The Russians primary concern was the USN fighter squads. The Flankers could launch with full AA weapons correct? It has large amount of fuel anyways. I think there secondary concern was strike capability that came short. Russians did play a defensive role correct?
What bothers me is that they never seemed to fix the problem and move on to a complete CATOBAR. The Oreal class still uses a ramp and two cats but they launch some kind of AEW. Anyway these could launch fighters instead?

There are a few realities that get conveniently ignored wrt to the Gorshkovs. (apart from my earlier comments)

They're touted as a Fleet Air Defence platform and yet they are reliant on a limited endurance helo with an average 120km detection range. This is their EWINT/AEW&C CAP against tactical aircraft. The other issue being of course that the Surface protection elements of the Russian CV/Cruiser concept was also deficient. To improve that requires transition to a UK/French/US model - and then you still have deficient air support.

I don't have a lot of confidence in the viability of a Russian STOBAR that in real terms is a modern day Viraat and yet has no more practical strategic capability than the prev 50 year old STOVL boat.

You just can't convert the ship into a more CV type role - the bunkerage issues alone are enormous. Why do you think that India is going to indigenous ADS designs?

Hybrids are usually never effective designs.

 

[kingkobra]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200511151001.htm

Washington, Nov. 15. (PTI): The Pentagon has notified US Congress about a possible lease to India of two P-3C aircraft along with equipment and services as part of a proposed military sale worth US$ 133 millions to strengthen the US-India strategic partnership.

"The proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the US by helping to improve the security of an important ally and to strengthen US -India strategic partnership which continues to be an important force for political stability, peace and economic progress in South Asia," the Defence Department has said yesterday.

The two leased PC-3 aircraft will replace two existing Indian Navy aircraft-- the Soviet built IL38 May--, the Pentagon told Congress, adding India has to replace these fixed wing aircrafts with an airborne operational capability.

"India is capable of absorbing and maintaining these additional aircraft in its inventory," the Pentagon has told Congress.

The notification by the Pentagon to Congress is required by law and does not mean that that the sale has been finalised.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

finally it has beeen confirmed :

russia will help india in developing its atv class of nuclear attack submarines and warships,this was stated by the indian defence minister pranab mukherjee in an interview on dd news and also with various news papers.

posting the links:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1298043,curpg-4.cms

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=335468

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/nov/16sub.htm

this is perhalps the first time that the indian defence minister has acknowledged the existence of the atv project.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

well guys hope this news is not true.
but pentagon has cleared india for lease of 2 p3c orions at 133 million dollars.

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=58355

seems pretty expensive for just 2 planes and that too leased.

 

[dabrownguy]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

Would midair refueling and buddy to buddy system help the AC's endurance at sea?

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

Would midair refueling and buddy to buddy system help the AC's endurance at sea?

i doubt it would be that helpfull for aircrafts like orions and large transport aircrafts because their fuel requirements are quite high ,the fuel tanks are much larger and more widely distributed than that of combat aircrafts ,hence the fuelling process will take considerably longer time,however iam sure they can be configured to carry the underwing fuel tanks in order to improve their endurance.

 

[dabrownguy]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

i doubt it would be that helpfull for aircrafts like orions and large transport aircrafts because their fuel requirements are quite high ,the fuel tanks are much larger and more widely distributed than that of combat aircrafts ,hence the fuelling process will take considerably longer time,however iam sure they can be configured to carry the underwing fuel tanks in order to improve their endurance.

I was talking more about MiG-29K since they already have short fuel supply.
The buddy to buddy system. I have heard Isreali's have a command system that automatically picks out the ideal time to refuel aircraft.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

I was talking more about MiG-29K since they already have short fuel supply.
The buddy to buddy system. I have heard Isreali's have a command system that automatically picks out the ideal time to refuel aircraft.

well the mig29k definitely has provisions for inflight refuelling,though i doubt if india has any system comparable to what the israelis have.

 

[dabrownguy]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

well the mig29k definitely has provisions for inflight refuelling,though i doubt if india has any system comparable to what the israelis have.

The Isrealis modeled C41 after Norad. The IAF just gave Israel some cold grean cash for a C41 system. Not sure what though and it's not like IAF will tell soon.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

well the mig29k's are naval aircraft and hence will be primarily capable of being controlled by the indian navy is c4i and compatible with the joint forces c4i ,but as of now i dont think the naval command control systems have been integrated with that of airforce and navy.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

hey guys this came in todays news that the land based prototype of atv's nuclear reactor has been operation since december 2004 at kalpakkam in chennai.it uses high enriched uranium and can produce upto 100mws.since land prototype has been developed i wish it can also be modified for use on surface ships.
here is the link:

http://www.hindu.com/2005/11/25/stories/2005112502201400.htm

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

seems indian navy is interested in acquiring more talwars,i hope they can join with the us in developing the lcs ships ,they seem realy cool and capable warships.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=82664

 

[BLACKDRONZER]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

seems indian navy is interested in acquiring more talwars,i hope they can join with the us in developing the lcs ships ,they seem realy cool and capable warships.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=82664

aaaditya i dont think india is going to indulge in any projects with US .As we all no what kind of ally will be US :gun to india ,considering our past relation ship with them (in 1971 war with pak they actualy supplied weapons to pak,(ref:bharath-rakshak)).

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

now this is an interesting article,seems china is now going to participate in a joint naval excercise with india.
will it be the same fleet currently excercising with pakistan?

India, China to conduct joint naval drills

The Indian Navy is gearing up for a rare engagement next week with Chinese warships in Indian waters that will reflect a growing thaw in bilateral military ties despite an unsettled border dispute between the two countries.

The Chinese missile destroyer Shenzhen and supply ship Weishanhu will conduct naval drills with Indian warships in waters off Kochi in Kerala, marking only the second joint military exercise between the two sides. But it will be the first time that Chinese forces will join manoeuvres in Indian territory.

The Indian Navy top brass is looking forward to the engagement even as the force works to establish itself as a major factor for peace and stability in the Indian Ocean.

"These will be exercises at a very basic level as we still know very little about each other," Indian Navy spokesman Commander Vinay Garg said.

"But such exercises always help to improve military-to-military relations."

The Chinese warships will sail into Indian waters following weeklong manoeuvres with the Pakistani Navy to train for search and rescue missions.

India and China conducted their first joint naval exercise off Shanghai in November 2003, several months after then defence minister George Fernandes and prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee visited Beijing to boost bilateral ties.

Next week's naval manoeuvres at Kochi will be the latest in a flurry of military drills India has conducted this year with the forces of major nations like France and the US as part of its efforts to establish its role as a regional power.

Earlier this month, US F-16 fighters drilled along with Indian combat jets in West Bengal, while Indian warships conducted a major naval exercise with the French Navy in the waters off Djibouti during a deployment in the Gulf of Aden.

Though military ties between India and China went into a tailspin following their brief but bitter border war in 1962, Beijing has given the clearance to its defence establishment to forge closer ties with India's armed forces.

Chinese experts have described the upcoming naval drills with India as a reflection of the concept of "seeking security through cooperation".

China's Ambassador Sun Yuxi said last month that fighting terrorism and piracy in regional waters could be the focus of future joint military exercises. He also pointed to several other indicators of the burgeoning military relations, including the exchange of observers for exercises and high-level visits.

Indian defence officials admit that the development of military ties with China has been plagued by years of suspicion as well as lesser issues like language.

But they believe India's need to forge greater cooperation with the Chinese Navy to battle piracy and gun-running in regional waters could serve as the springboard for more broad-based ties.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1556191,0008.htm

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

hey guys i just came across this that the indian navy is using an indigenously developed howercraft based on the wing in ground effect called as the foilcat.

Navy using flying hovercraft of IIT engineer
Kolkata | November 27, 2005 11:31:27 AM IST

The Indian Navy has been successfully using the flying hovercraft, developed by a Bengali naval engineer, for patrolling purposes.

The flying hovercraft, developed by engineer Arup Kumar Bose, a graduate from Kharagpur IIT, moves at 100 km per hour on land, air and water.
This craft moves over marshy or hard surface, water and in the air with ground effect. Ground effect is a phenomena, caused when a craft moves close to ground or water (within about 5 feet) at a certain speed, due to trapping a dynamic air cushion, said Mr Bose.
Mr Bose has set up a workshop in the IIT Kharagpur campus to develop this specialised craft for Defence.
''My hovercraft is used by the Defence for patrolling in marshy terrains. It however, could also be used for coastal patrolling and against poacher in forests and to stop smuggling. The craft also be used for tourism well,'' he claimed.
A Naval architect from IIT Kharagpur in 1977, Mr Bose was currently working on another marine craft, which is under construction at IIT Kharagpur, called FOILCAT, IIT sources said.
This is India's first foil-borne catamaran hull vessel, claimed Mr Bose.
The foils are like aircraft wings and the vessel rises up and its weight is dynamically supported by two stainless steels foils after achieving certain speed, he said.
The 'FOLICAT' is being developed in collaboration with the Department of Ocean Engineering and Naval Architecture and the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory of Visakhapatnam, the sources said. The vessel was in its final stage of construction and would be propelled by Rolls Royce waterjets to achieve 40 knots speed. The vessel would be tested at Chilka Lake in Orissa for extensive running trials, the Naval Engineer said.

here is the source:
http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=174163&n_date=20051127&cat=India.

 

[KGB]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

I found this article apparently dated november 29 2005.
http://english.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2005-45-7

"Sea Seal" To Surface in India By Vladimir Petrov The Moscow News

Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin hailed growing defense cooperation with India during a visit by Indian Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee to Moscow where he also met with Russia's Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov, who is also the country's defense minister. For his part, Mukherjee praised recent cooperation on defense shipments to India, saying that Russia remained India's number one source of arms. Speaking at a session of the Russian-Indian Intergovernmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation, Mukherjee said the two countries were looking at signing contracts on Russian arms sales to India worth a total of $9 billion. These include Tu-22 strategic bombers, the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, and the Nerpa (Project 971, Sea Seal) multipurpose nuclear-powered submarine. These agreements were described as revolutionary since traditional weapon systems, which have saturated the Indian and Chinese markets, are now being replaced with operational-strategic systems.
Talk about Russia's plans to sell its nuclear powered submarines to India has been going on for at least five years. The first indication that Russia was ready to put an entirely new product on the market was the arrival of a group of Indian military officers at the famous submariner training facility in the town of Sosnovy Bor (the Leningrad region). Now it is known that the submarine slated for delivery to the distant shores is the Nerpa, which is nearing completion at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur shipyard. Delhi, however, would like to get two nuclear-powered subs. The other one will most likely be the Kuguar (Puma) which is under construction at the Severodvinsk shipyard. Both these subs are armed with Granat cruise missiles, designed to engage coastal targets at a distance of up to 3,000 km.

​

How significantly would this alter the balance of power in the region? Those Akulas are supposedly comparable to 688i in capability.

​

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

I found this article apparently dated november 29 2005.
http://english.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2005-45-7

"Sea Seal" To Surface in India By Vladimir Petrov The Moscow News

Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin hailed growing defense cooperation with India during a visit by Indian Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee to Moscow where he also met with Russia's Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov, who is also the country's defense minister. For his part, Mukherjee praised recent cooperation on defense shipments to India, saying that Russia remained India's number one source of arms. Speaking at a session of the Russian-Indian Intergovernmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation, Mukherjee said the two countries were looking at signing contracts on Russian arms sales to India worth a total of $9 billion. These include Tu-22 strategic bombers, the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, and the Nerpa (Project 971, Sea Seal) multipurpose nuclear-powered submarine. These agreements were described as revolutionary since traditional weapon systems, which have saturated the Indian and Chinese markets, are now being replaced with operational-strategic systems.
Talk about Russia's plans to sell its nuclear powered submarines to India has been going on for at least five years. The first indication that Russia was ready to put an entirely new product on the market was the arrival of a group of Indian military officers at the famous submariner training facility in the town of Sosnovy Bor (the Leningrad region). Now it is known that the submarine slated for delivery to the distant shores is the Nerpa, which is nearing completion at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur shipyard. Delhi, however, would like to get two nuclear-powered subs. The other one will most likely be the Kuguar (Puma) which is under construction at the Severodvinsk shipyard. Both these subs are armed with Granat cruise missiles, designed to engage coastal targets at a distance of up to 3,000 km.


​

How significantly would this alter the balance of power in the region? Those Akulas are supposedly comparable to 688i in capability.

​

first of all these nuclear submarines will not be equipped with granat missiles since these missiles violate the mtcr(most probably they will be equipped with the brahmos and the klub cruise missiles.)
this deal also involves the amur class on next generation conventional stealth attack submarines with full transfer of technology to manufacture these submarines indigenously in india by the larsen and toubro and the kirloskar marine engines at haldia.

 

[XEROX]

Re: Indian Navy News and Discussion

1. Only Nerpa, i though their was 2 SSN with an option for a 3rd

2. I would envisige sagarika arming the Akulas and ATVs