Indian Military Aviation; News, Updates & Discussions

[Feanor]

I'm not so sure that this is a legitimate view

All submissions are subjected to a prelim review to ensure that they meet the Govts basis of compliance.

If cost was an absolute constraint then they would have been eliminated at prelim review

Cost is usually considered last, and even if they are high (and I've seen submissions where one vendor was 2.5 times higher than another competitor) then they will still be assessed on technical merit first. Govt always takes the view that they can negotiate a price down as while they are still in negotiation they can default to the next attractive bid

i'd say that the articles view is spurious.

I suppose time will tell.

Also yes, sorry about the abbreviation confusion.

 

[dragonfire]

How would that affect the USD price?

If country A is buying something from country B, & it's priced in currency B, fluctuations in the exchange rate have no effect on the listed price. They affect the amount of currency A needed, not currency B. A fall in the INR against the USD puts the price of USD priced imports up in INR, not USD.

And in any case, Rafale & Eurofighter costs are in euros & sterling, not USD.

The Allocation was for 42000 Crore INR (1 Crore = 10 Million) which at the time of allocation was around 10.5 Billion USD at the prevailing rates then. This allocation amount has not changed in the Indian context and if the same needs to be changed the ambit of discussion involves the Ministry of Finance for further allocations. The recent hit that the INR has gone through would generate lesser USD or Euros for the allocated funds

 

[Rish]

The Allocation was for 42000 Crore INR (1 Crore = 10 Million) which at the time of allocation was around 10.5 Billion USD at the prevailing rates then. This allocation amount has not changed in the Indian context and if the same needs to be changed the ambit of discussion involves the Ministry of Finance for further allocations. The recent hit that the INR has gone through would generate lesser USD or Euros for the allocated funds

The finance ministry should have expected to include inflation and the fluctuation in the price of the Rupee when allocating funds. Especially for a project as big as this one. I am not too familiar with economics, but the Broadsword article on the Rupee on the Purchase bill fails to account for the fact that the price of the aircraft will not be paid in full at one time. I am sure that price negotiations can be dragged on for several more months after the L1 vender is chosen and payments probably would not have to be start being made until late next year if not later depending on what the delivery schedule is. I am sure gf0012-aus could shed more light on how payments in large contracts work if you ask nicely.

 

[nitinlj]

Nuclear capable aircraft

Is a correct assumption. They will replace the role being done by the 4 leased Tu-22M Backfire (not sure if these are still around) and partially by the Mirage-2000H
Sukhoi-30MKI is the longest ranged modern fighter-bomber in the arsenal and in combination with weapons like Brahmos or in future the Hypersonic missile / Nirbhay cruise missile is a potent for SFC role.
It will do this till FGFA join in numbers.

I have been pondering over the question for quite sometime now as to what is it that makes an aircraft capable of launching nuclear weapons?
Factors like Weight is understandable. Anything else? like EMI/EMC/EMP compatibility, etc?

 

[dragonfire]

India to buy more than 16 C-17 airlifters

Indian Air force expresses interest in acquiring six more C-17 planes: Boeing - The Economic Times

Boeing has confirmed that they have received from the IAF communication confirming interest in acquiring 6 more C-17s. Which if it materialises could see 16 C-17s with the IAF in the 2015-2016 timeframe.

 

[Twinblade]

India chopper deal figures in Italy graft investigation

The deal for choppers for VVIP transport is under investigation in Italy. Also under investigation is the contract to supply radar and other equipment for IAC by Selex. I sense dark clouds on the horizon.

Indian eye in the sky

A detailed article about the capabilities of DRDO-EMB-145 AEWCS. DRDO claims that it can track 500 targets simultaneously. Considering that there are only 8 operators on that plane, it better have some considerable MMI to reduce the workload.

While this aircraft will now undergo a full certification process over the next two years, India will receive two more Embraer aircraft by the middle of next year to be integrated with the AEW&C System.

The Indian AESA radar is the primary sensor for the indigenous AEW & C. The radar can look 240 degrees within a short time and has a range of 350 km; it can track more than 500 targets simultaneously.

The Defence Acquisition Council has given approval for the indigenous development of 2,700 IFF systems and the Services want a single-box solution in the IFF system. The government has the option of buying the remaining 500 IFF systems in the global market.

 

[dragonfire]

IAF to procure 71 more armed choppers

Press Trust of India: Aiming at strengthening its medium-lift helicopter fleet, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is planning to procure 71 more Mi-17 V5 choppers, including 12 for the Ministry of Home Affairs.

These would be in addition to the 80 already ordered from Russia.

The MI-17 V5 falls in armed helicopter category, with substantial and effective firepower. It has latest and more powerful engines that enhance its payload carrying capability at higher altitudes.

IAF to procure 71 more armed choppers

The interesting thing is that of the 71 ordered only 59 are for the IAF the rest dozen are for the Border Security Force (half) and the rest for other Central Armed Police Forces like the Central Reserve Police Force etc which operate under the Home Ministry and not under the Ministry of Defence.

The deliveries for the 80 previously ordered Mil Mi-17Vs have already been started

 

[Twinblade]

Approval granted for issue of RFP for MRMR tender.
India approves 9 maritime patrol aircraft buy | StratPost

The Defense Acquisitions Council of the Ministry of Defense has accepted the necessity for procuring nine Medium Range Maritime Reconnaissance (MRMR) aircraft for the Indian Navy. The Acceptance of Necessity (AON) this week came after the evaluation of data provided by vendors in response to the Request for Information (RFI) issued almost exactly a year back.

Interestingly, while earlier the perceived requirement was for six aircraft, this has now been upped by three, with an option for additional aircraft, the number of which is yet to be carved in stone.

Aircraft Manufacturers and Makes

Boeing: Boeing P-8 (Turbofan)

Airbus: Airbus A-319 (Turbofan)

Embraer: 145 MP (Turbofan)

Dassault: Falcon 900 MPA (Turbofan)

Saab: Saab 2000 (Turboprop)

ATR: ATR 72 (Turboprop)

Bombardier: Q400 (Turboprop)

Casa: C-295 (Turboprop)

Lockheed Martin: C-130 [Interestingly, the RFI had required the aircraft to be a twin engine aircraft. The four turboprop engines of the Hercules may be considered to merely exceed requirements. And the same goes for the Dassault Falcon's three engines.]

Does any other nation use C-130 for maritime patrol ?

 

[DeathAngel]

Is this something apart from the P-8I that India is buying? I do not understand the need for it, especially as I consider the P-8 to be an excellent buy. The article also mentions the P-8 amongst the list of MRMR. Could anyone clarify?

 

[Feanor]

Is this something apart from the P-8I that India is buying? I do not understand the need for it, especially as I consider the P-8 to be an excellent buy. The article also mentions the P-8 amongst the list of MRMR. Could anyone clarify?

They're also in the process of overhauling and upgrading the Tu-142M fleet. This would give them 3 different maritime patrol aircraft filling similar roles.

Though perhaps they plan to replace the Tu-142M with P-8I, and the Il-38SD with the C-130s. However the Il-38SD were also recently upgraded, meaning they plan to retain them in service for a considerable period of time.

 

[Twinblade]

Is this something apart from the P-8I that India is buying? I do not understand the need for it, especially as I consider the P-8 to be an excellent buy. The article also mentions the P-8 amongst the list of MRMR. Could anyone clarify?

Boeing says it can offer a cheaper version of P-8I with reduced capabilities and cheaper operating costs. Post Mumbai attacks, government has instructed IN and coast guard to pursue 24/7 surveillance of the coastline; how effective would it be is another question. As of now 12 P-8I's replace 8 Tu-142, and Il-38's would be replaced by MRMR, in larger numbers than what is being currently operated. The Bears and Mays aren't going away for now, till the fleet reaches the higher numbers required for intensive patrolling, followed by which individual units will start getting replaced.

 

[Twinblade]

Seems like the timeline of the revised Kaveri engine has been set to 2017. The IAF benchmark is set at 20,230 lbs (91.6 KN) of thrust.

http://i40.tinypic.com/qrf1js.jpg

Seems like the French are ready to transfer technology to create blisks.

 

[Twinblade]

After no LSP rolled out in 2011, two prototypes are ready for flights.

NLCA-1 has been undergoing taxi trials again after fixing the weight issues, first flight is imminent.
Update: LSP-7 has been taken off, courtesy an HAL guy on BRF

Tejas LSP7 to have its first flight soon

Edit: It seems like to cut drag and RCS, the APU intake has been reshaped.

 

[Twinblade]

The new cockpit display systems for HAL aircraft displayed at Defexpo 12. Some sources have claimed that Tejas mk2 might incorporate newer display systems but till now there is no official confirmation.

 

[Twinblade]

Embraer has rolled out the second DRDO AEWCS platform, the third one is expected to be delivered this year as well. I'd say this is a rather speedy delivery.

Speaking of speedy deliveries, all the 10 C-17's on order would be delivered between June 2013 and Aug 2014.
IAF to get first C17 airlifter in June 2013

 

[Twinblade]

Indian Airforce has sent an RFI for information to support the acquisition of nine new special-mission aircraft for communications jamming, signals intelligence and surveillance.

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/awx_04_20_2012_p0-450583.xml

The IAF’s request for information, which contains a great degree of detail on specific requirements, stipulates that the system needs to be based on aircraft powered by twin turbofan engines with low noise and vibration levels, with a hot-and-high capability in all roles, certified for deployments at air bases up to 3,300 meters (10,000 ft.) above mean sea level. Sources say the air force is looking for a business jet platform with an optimum cruise speed of Mach 0.75-0.80 and a minimum range of 2,500 nm.

After being denied flight certification twice, NLCA might fly next week.
Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: FRRB clears NP-1 for first flight | One more HSTT next week

Bangalore: The naval variant (NP-1) of India's Light Combat Aircraft is ready. Having missed many deadlines like its air force avatar – Tejas, sources now confirm to Express that the Flight Readiness Review Board (FRRB) has cleared NP-1 for first flight. Rolled out on July 6, 2010 amidst cinematic settings and blessed by defence minister A K Antony, the NP-1 ran into a spate of technological challenges. As this piece goes live, the total systems onboard NP-1 have completed fault-free tests on Iron Bird – ahead of the possible maiden flight.

For those interested in Tejas's flight characteristics, here is a detailed report on high AoA testing intended for Tejas:-

[ame="http://www.scribd.com/doc/78345390/Approach-to-High-Angle-of-Attack-Testing-of-Light-Combat-Aircraft-LCA-Tejas"]Approach to High Angle of Attack Testing of Light Combat Aircraft [LCA] Tejas[/ame]

Tejas LSP-8 to be rolled out in June and weapon trials necessary for IOC-2 will be conducted in May.
Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Tejas on campaign mode to complete IOC-2 missions

“Tejas sorties have seen an all-time increase in the last one month. Currently the PV-2, PV-3, LSPs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 7 are flying. All the platforms have come out of the delay and the fuel tank concerns have been addressed. The re-arranging of the butting of fuel and hydraulic pipes is perfect now. We have clocked up to 30 sorties in March and hope to up it further,” HAL sources said.
Team Tejas has lost over six months of crucial time in the flight programme during the last one year, leave alone the overall delay in the programme. The 13th and last aircraft from the Tejas development-phase flight-line (LSP-8) is scheduled to fly in June, while the 12th one flew recently.
Sources say that the Tejas would head for another round of weapon trials in May and June as part of the IOC-2 schedule. “These trials would be spread across Goa, Pokhran, Jaisalmer, Chitradurga among others. K A Muthanna, the head of National Flight Test Centre – the nodal centre for Tejas test-flying – flew the Tejas last week. This was his first flight on Tejas,” sources said.

Meanwhile, AURA UCAV project has started gathering a bit of momentum.
DIAT to provide eyes and ears for country’s first armed war bird

In an exclusive interview, DIAT Vice-Chancellor Prahlada said, “Scientists at DIAT are working on development of radars for the UCAV programme currently under way at ADA. The expected timeline for development of a prototype is about a year-and-a- half from now. The radar will provide C4ISR (command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance) capability to the aircraft. Research is on on development of lightweight radars to reduce weight of the aircraft, save maximum energy and provide realtime feedback to the control centre,” said Prahlada.

Sukhoi- 30Mki continue to show a wee bit of minor glitches every now and then.
Sukhoi snag hits flight operations in Pune

PUNE: Flight operations from the city's Lohegaon airport were suspended for four hours on Thursday after a Sukhoi-30 Mk-I fighter jet of the Indian Air Force made an emergency landing on the runway at 9.05 am. At least a thousand passengers were left stranded at the airport.

An official IAF release attributed the emergency landing to a problem in the nose undercarriage of the Su-30 aircraft, which was on a routine flying exercise. No casualty was reported. "The runway was cleared for flight operations at 1 pm," stated the brief release issued by Flight Lieutenant T Ramesh Kumar, PRO, Air Force Station (AFS), Pune.

The procurement of shelters for the Su-30 to protect them from the elements is underway.

 

[Twinblade]

Livefist: India's UCAV To Fly In 2015, Says DRDO. High Hopes?

AURA UCAV/USAV might have its first flight in 2015. Too far a date to keep fingers crossed, but best of luck anyways.

 

[ADMk2]

Indian Airforce has sent an RFI for information to support the acquisition of nine new special-mission aircraft for communications jamming, signals intelligence and surveillance.

India Wants New Airborne Jamming Aircraft

Gee, if only they'd thought of this requirement during MMRCA, I can think of a particular aircraft that does this role better than anything else in the world...

 

[StobieWan]

Gee, if only they'd thought of this requirement during MMRCA, I can think of a particular aircraft that does this role better than anything else in the world...

But if they'd bought SuperHornet, they wouldn't be in the position to acquire four types of aircraft? They'd have one that could do the lot!

That's...why..that's *crazy* talk!

Seriously - are there a lot of escort jammers out there to pick from? I can think of one (Growler, of course) - are there any more in production?

 

[ADMk2]

But if they'd bought SuperHornet, they wouldn't be in the position to acquire four types of aircraft? They'd have one that could do the lot!

That's...why..that's *crazy* talk!

Yes, I'm often told to stop letting logic get in the way of my thinking...

Seriously - are there a lot of escort jammers out there to pick from? I can think of one (Growler, of course) - are there any more in production?

There's the Prowler...

:lam