Indian Army News and Discussion

[MG 3]

Dude IA uses the top of the line snipers ,7.62mm Dragunov, 7.62mm Mauser SP66, 7.62mm H&K MSG-90.The Dragunov is fielded by marksmen and the elite snipers have acess to the German (Mauser and MSG-90). .

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Inf-Weapons.html
Hey what about PA ?

In our infantry, the Styer SSG-PII, 7.62x51mm NATO (.308), Bolt Action, 10 round box mag. But for urban situations for example the semi urban villages of waziristan some M-21's which are also 7.62x51mm NATO (.308), semi automatic, have also been seen(mostly bought from the US mil). In the southern theater of ops they are also going to introduce the M82A1 for the relatively flat terrain. There are reports that people from the McMillan Sniper School were in pakistan training people in the art of .50 cal 1000m+ kills. Full deployment might take a year or two.

And for the comando SSG guys. They are all crazy, you know what i mean all that time in the jungles and deserts alone :. Just kidding. They have a different sniper rifle for every occasion. Believe me when i say that i have seen them use .22's.

 

[vijayshimla]

hey guys seems that the indigenous excalibur assault rifle has been tested and inducted by the indian army and is now being offered to egypt.

india has also developed and productionised an anti-material sniper rifle based on the south african mechen ntw-20 ,this rifles is available in three caliber 12.7mm,14.5mm and 20mm and can be used to destroy enemy bunkers and lightly armoured vehicles.this weapon has been named as the vidhwanshak which is sanskrit for destructive.

here check out this link:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060816/edit.htm


India would be bidding for a global tender to establish a small arms manufacturing unit in Egypt. This bid would be made on the strength of the indigenously developed high-tech Excalibur rifle, which is an improved version of the 5.56 INSAS rifle being used by the Indian Armed Forces. Excalibur, which is also being manufactured at Ichapur Rifle factory, has been tried and commended by the India Infantry School, Mhow. Incidentally, ordnance factories have also developed an indigenous anti-material rifle and have started work on a full Infantry Soldier System. The anti-material rifle being manufactured at a Trichy unit has three barrels from which it can destroy concrete bunkers and also soft armour plates.

BID FOR SMALL ARMS FACTORY BY INDIA-This is called the height of unrealistic expectation- by the babus of Indian defence establishment. Likelyhood of Egypt going in for a unproven- untried weapon like Insas or Excalibur is very very slim !! Waste of time & energy, which can be better employed for house cleaning of Defence Babus.

 

[aaaditya]

BID FOR SMALL ARMS FACTORY BY INDIA-This is called the height of unrealistic expectation- by the babus of Indian defence establishment. Likelyhood of Egypt going in for a unproven- untried weapon like Insas or Excalibur is very very slim !! Waste of time & energy, which can be better employed for house cleaning of Defence Babus.

insas is proven,becuase the indian army which normally gives preference to western instead of indigenous technology has accepted in service,issued it to frontline units and is happy about it,the insas received its baptism by fire in the kargil war,followed by the nepal civil war.

there are confirmed reports that this weapon has been sold to nepal and bhutan,however according to unconfirmed reports recently namibia has acquired this weapon.

 

[SU 30MKI]

insas is proven,becuase the indian army which normally gives preference to western instead of indigenous technology has accepted in service,issued it to frontline units and is happy about it,the insas received its baptism by fire in the kargil war,followed by the nepal civil war.

there are confirmed reports that this weapon has been sold to nepal and bhutan,however according to unconfirmed reports recently namibia has acquired this weapon.

I too agree that Insas has not a good weapon, earlier their was problem in it becasue the metal which is used was cracked in higher altitude cold regions but that problem was solved now. Second generatoin of Insas is now workign fine.

 

[powerslavenegi]

Incorrect and False

I too agree that Insas has not a good weapon, earlier their was problem in it becasue the metal which is used was cracked in higher altitude cold regions but that problem was solved now. Second generatoin of Insas is now workign fine.

Hey dude Insas suffered from cracks of the magazine casing and not any metal.The magazine casing is made of some Translusent plastic based material(which was reported to have cracked in extreme temp of Siachin ).The problems have been rectified and rifle is in full production.for more on insas.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE1/BR-MON6.html

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is some information on the zittara multi purpose assault rifle developed by the ordinance factory board with israeli assistance and is based on the imi micro tar (micro tavor assault rifle),however slightly differing from the micro tar.

here check out this link,the image of this assault rifle has already been posted on this forum:

http://www.defense-update.com/events/2006/summary/defexpo06-asymmetiric.htm#zittara

OFB introduced the Zittara, a compact assault rifle designed specifically for close quarter battle. The Zittara multi-purpose carbine is generally based on Israel's imi micro tar assault rifle, which was designed for use by special operations units and is being proposed as the standard weapon for Israel’s intervention and special ops forces. The OFB Zittara differs from the Israeli design by allowing the use of three different configurations and ammunition types for different situations - a carbine (firing 5.56x30 ammunition), an assault rifle (firing 5.56x45mm) or a submachine-gun firing 9x19mm rounds with accuracy of up to 200 meters. These conversions can be performed in the field with standard tools.

also here is some infromation and image of the micro tavor(you can hardly distinguish between the micro tar and the zittara):

http://www.defense-update.com/products/m/micro-tavor.htm

Micro Tavor

Israel's Weapons Industries (IWI)

Micro Tavor (MTAR 21) is based on the IWI Tavor Assault Rifle, yet this small weapon is tailored for the Special Forces market. Its compact dimensions make this weapon a perfect match for drivers and tank crews. MTAR was developed in close cooperation with special operations units and is tailored to their specific requirements and needs.
With length of only 59 cm MTAR21 is considered to be the shortest 5.56mm weapon in the market yet its barrel is only five centimeter short of the assault rifle version, thus offering accurate fire at contingencies. Utilizing a conversion kit, MTAR 21 can be turned into a 9mm sub-machinegun loaded with 25 rounds magazines. This capability has significant logistical, training and operational advantages for special operations and SWAT units, which usually maintain two dedicated weapons for short and medium range operations.

the one in the bottom is the 9mm submachine gun version of the zittara having a range of 200metres.

​

for more information on the tavor assault rifle and its specifications i suggest you guys check on this link:

http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as30-e.htm

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys ,iim-a(indian institute of management - ahmedabad) will now be providing training in management and administration to the indian army,iam sure that this will considerably enhanc the management skills of the indian army since iim-a has the reputation of being one of the best management colleges in the world.

here check out this link and article:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1923299.cms

AHMEDABAD: India's top B-school, Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad, is all set to impart business education to defence officers who have just retired or who are on the verge of retirement.

The Certificate Course in Business Administration will be held for officers of the Indian armed forces, Army, Air Force and Navy from October, an official statement said.

"The programme aims at providing management education to officers whether in the short commission or the regular commission. The objective is to help such officers in their rehabilitation in civil life," the statement said.

The six-month full-time residential programme has been designed by the institute at the instance of the Directorate General of Resettlement, Ministry of Defence.

The programme is divided into three terms. In the first two terms, the participants will be offered about 17 core courses in economics, marketing, finance, accounting, organisational behaviour, costing etc. All these courses are compulsory.

In the last term, participants will be offered elective courses. In addition to classroom teaching, there would be industrial visits and guest lectures.

The ministry has already selected 60 participants for the first batch.

​

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys russia has started the delivery of the 30 smerch multi barrel rocket launches to the indian army as a part of the 150 million dollars deal signed last year.

here check out this link and article ,it gives some information on the smerch:

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/pub...cket_Systems_Deliveries_to_India_20060824.php

Russia has started deliveries of Smerch multiple-launch rocket systems to India. The $150 million deal was signed last December. Under the contract signed with Rosoboronexport arms exporting monopoly Urals based company Motovilikhinskiye Zavody will provide about 30 modernised Smerch systems to arm three regiments of the Indian Army, Indian media reported. Smerch sales to India have been under negotiation since the late 1990s. The rockets with inbuilt gyroscopes for perfect homing at the target are said to be world leaders in their class, have a range of up to 70 km and can be armed with a wide range of conventional warheads including deadly thermo-baric (vacuum) capable of destroying enemy personnel sheltered in reinforced concrete bunkers and pill-boxes, said a spokesman of the Smerch designer Tula-based Splav company.

 

[kams]

German defence conglomerate begins talks with Defence Ministry

India's Defence minister will be in Germany next week. I came across this news report regarding Rheinmetall's presentation to Defence ministry.

German defence conglomerate begins talks with Defence Ministry

New Delhi, Aug 31: With India lifting restrictions on Defence trade with Germany, a major German Defence conglomerate has begun talks with the Defence Ministry and the armed forces for supply of latest technology in the fields of artillery ammunition, tanks and electronic systems.

The restrictions were gradually removed after the German government sought increased defence cooperation with India in august last year and following Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit to the Hannover Fair earlier this year.
Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee will be visiting Germany next week and is likely to sign a major agreement for Indo-German Defence cooperation, which would be the basis for further accords in varied fields.

Chief of the Rheinmetall Waffe Munition GMBH Armin Papperger told reporters that the defence manufacturing group had held talks with Defence Ministry officials and armed forces officials during the past few days offering a variety of equipment and ammunition for artillery.

He said the conglomerate was interested in showcasing its vehicles and guns, besides getting involved in the major refurbishment programme being undertaken by the Army for its tanks and other artillery systems.

Maintaining that the rheinmetall produced "high-end" and most sophisticated equipment and products which were also costly, Papperger and the company's executive manager Hubertus Von Schoenfeldt gave a detailed presentation on the range of products and capabilities while expressing their keenness to offer their protection systems against nuclear attacks and robots for bomb disposal.

Bureau Report

German defence conglomerate - India

I was surprised to read about India's restrictions on defence impoerts from Germany. Any idea why and when these restrictions were imposed? Intrestingly, Rheinmetall will be supplying the simulators for India's Mig-29K fighters meant for Indian Navy. Waylander any idea about the import restrictions?

 

[aaaditya]

supply of latest technology by germany,i hope they supply us with the europack2000 1500hp engine and the 120mm smoothbore gun technology for the arjun main battle tanks or at least offer us the leapord battle tank.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is another good news ,hcl(hindusthan computers limited) has set up a vsat communication network for the indian army under the project roshini ,this is one of the largest satellite networks in india.

here check out this link:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=6983

 

[kams]

supply of latest technology by germany,i hope they supply us with the europack2000 1500hp engine and the 120mm smoothbore gun technology for the arjun main battle tanks or at least offer us the leapord battle tank.

MMM I would put Panzerhaubitze 2000 above all of those. 40 km+ range, 12 rounds in 1 minute, MRSI capability, shoot and scoot in less than 3 minutes, the system is amazing. Strategic mobility is a concern though (50 T + weight). With India's Bhim also cancelled, I don't think IA is looking for a tracked artillay

 

[Waylander]

Due to the ongoing clashes in the kashmir area India and for sure Pakistan (Due to their non democratic government) could have been decribed as crisis areas and so contracts on defence equipment where forbidden.
Don't know hwy this changed.
Should be the money.

I have never understood why India uses a rifled gun on their Arjun tanks. During the development the Brits were the only one fielding modern rifled guns and it looks like by now that even they change to the L/55 smoothbore gun.

I would also think that buying the PzH2000 or a similar system would make more sense to India than a Leopard II tank.
You have your own tank program. It might be difficult but buying a new foreign tank would make the investments useless.
But artillery is another point and you just cannot develop everything by your own.
Buying the Pzh2000 should really increase your artillery capabilities especially if you also buy the right ammunition and support equipment (SMARt, extended range, COBRA fire finder radar, etc.).

 

[kams]

Due to the ongoing clashes in the kashmir area India and for sure Pakistan (Due to their non democratic government) could have been decribed as crisis areas and so contracts on defence equipment where forbidden.
Don't know hwy this changed.
Should be the money.

I have never understood why India uses a rifled gun on their Arjun tanks. During the development the Brits were the only one fielding modern rifled guns and it looks like by now that even they change to the L/55 smoothbore gun.

I would also think that buying the PzH2000 or a similar system would make more sense to India than a Leopard II tank.
You have your own tank program. It might be difficult but buying a new foreign tank would make the investments useless.
But artillery is another point and you just cannot develop everything by your own.
Buying the Pzh2000 should really increase your artillery capabilities especially if you also buy the right ammunition and support equipment (SMARt, extended range, COBRA fire finder radar, etc.).

Waylander,
Thanks for your input. However if you read the news report, it's the Indian govt. which imposed restrictions on defence imports from Germany not the other way. What you say is true if German Govt. imposed the sales embargo. Thats not the case and it seems your chancellor ms.Merkel spoke to our PM during his visit to Germany last year to sort out the matter. Strange. I will try to find out what exactly is the story.

I saw a documentary on Pzh2000 in Military channel. It's rate of fire was awesome and it took only two men to drive, set up and fire it. While India is looking for 155 /52 calibre artillary, I don't think they are looking for tracked artillary. Indian army has a concern that due to their heavy weight strategic mobility is a problem. Currently 155 /52 calibre guns are under feildtrial. Bofors FH 77 B05L52 and Soltam TIG 2002 are in the running.

 

[aaaditya]

guys i dont think germany has any field artillery which it can offer for export,also i would favour bofors fh77b05l52 for the indian army and a bofors self propelled gun combo over the pzh2000.

this is because the i believe the bofors is comparable in terms of technology sophistication to the pzh2000 besides being availbale in large numbers with the indian army.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is an interesting news article ,seems that an indian university have developed smart combat fatigues and batteries for the indian army.this technology includes rechargeable light weight batteries (9volts upgradeable to 12 volts) which would be recharged by the trousers and the shoes equipped with an induction motor and a coil to tap the body movements and convert it into electricity.

here check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/008200609011021.htm

'Technology that could ease the burden of soldiers'

Coimbatore, Sept. 1 (UNI): The 21st century battles will be fought with technology.
Perhaps, taking a cue from this, experts at the PSG College of Technology here have come out with some smart fatigues for soldiers on the battlefront...those which can generate power for communication gadgets.
The Department of Textiles has developed smart pants and shoes fixed with 'power generators' to produce energy for communication devices replacing conventional batteries.
Talking here today, Department Professors Ashok Kumar and A Venkatachalam, who mentored the project, claimed the invention would ease the burden of soliders on the warfront who usually have to carry 12 kg batteries for communication devices.
A fixed magnet and induction coil, stitched into the pants, will generate power from the body movements.
This will be used to recharge the batteries in the shoes from where the output pins have been provided for charging the communication devices including mobile phones.
These lightweight batteries can produce upto nine volts of power with further scope to enhance it to 12 volts.
The whole device is attached in such a manner that it would in no way deter the free movements of the armed personnel.
The system, working on the induction principle, is free from the danger of exploding even when heavy force is applied, Mr Kumar said.
The invention can also be used by sportspersons for monitoring blood pressure and pulse rate while running. The device has been sent to the DRDO for approval and supply to the armed forces, they said.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys great news the center for artificial intelligence has developed a robotic artillery command control system for the indian army under the leadership of ms anshu bharadwaj(god bless her) claimed to be comparable to the best in the world and at 1/4th of the cost.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/31/stories/2006073101130200.htm


The system developed by her team at the Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics makes it easier for those manning artillery under battle conditions, scientist Anshu Bharadwaj tells K. Satyamurty
The deployment of artillery under battle conditions has now become a high-tech operation. Geographical Positioning System and Remote Sensing intelligence get fed into advanced computers that generate data for positioning the guns. Distance, target and trajectory are carefully analysed and passed on within minutes to officers manning the artillery.
"Under actual battle conditions, commanding officers who have to direct artillery fire on enemy positions are under tremendous stress. In the past, they had to depend on less data. It was more of guess work. What we are doing makes their job easier and perhaps reduce their stress level,'' says Anshu Bharadwaj, a scientist at the Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR), a part of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), here. The young scientist is proud that the system developed by her team is equal to the most advanced ones developed by countries such as the U.S, Israel and Russia.
"They have the best in the world and we have them too,'' she says with a smile. The systems developed at CAIR have undergone extensive trial and upgradation and are under production," she says. Robotics is another of Ms. Bharadwaj's field of specialisation. The specific objectives of her team were to develop those that could be used to monitor turbines in nuclear power plants. Owing to radiation risk, human beings cannot be in proximity to nuclear turbines for long. The most interesting part is that the robotics designed here cost just one fourth of what otherwise have to be imported, she says. Ms. Bharadwaj was brought up and educated for a while in Dehra Dun. Even as a schoolgirl, science and especially robots held a fascination for her. After completing her B.Tech. in Electronics, she applied at DRDO and was selected for training. "I chose the job as it will be the right kind of career for me and provide me the right working environment," she says. she says. In the eight years she has been with the premier organisation, she was sponsored to obtain her masters' degree from IIT, Madras. Secure digital communication is another area in which she has worked at CAIR. Another project she enjoyed being associated with was the one to develop a wheel chair with built-in sensors. The sensors will detect any obstruction or changes in gradient and make suitable changes so that the chair moves along the right direction.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys indian defence minister pranab mukherjee is leaving on a 6 day visit to france and germany and is expected to sign a defence cooperation contract with germany,i hope we hear some good news from that front,germany has a lot of interesting defence technology and i hope they would be willing to jointly develop these with india.india can gain a lot from them.

here check out this link:

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=20448
The Defence Minister Shri Pranab Mukherjee leaves New Delhi tomorrow on a six-day official visit to France and Germany. He will be accompanied by senior officials of the Ministries of Defence and External Affairs, the Defence Research and Development Organisation and the Armed Forces. The delegation includes Shri S Banerjee, Director General Acquisition, Lt Gen HS Lidder, CISC, HQ IDS, Air Marshal FH Major, AOC-in-C, Eastern Command, Dr. Prahlada, CC R&D, DRDO, Ms Sujata Singh, Joint Secretary, Ministry External Affairs and Shri Gautam Chatterjee, Joint Secretary, Ministry of Defence.

During the first leg of his visit to France from Sep 03 to 05, Shri Mukherjee will hold discussions with his French counterpart Ms Michele Aliotte - Marie, besides visiting the Centre for Planning and Operations Management (CPCO) and the Command of Air Defence and Air Operations (CDAOA) at Taverny. CPCO is the Joint Staff Operations Centre of the French Defence Forces. It deals with international operations, plans and execution at Joint Staff level. The delegation will be given an overview of all types of operations being undertaken by the French Defence Forces all over the world. The Minister will also have an interactive round table with CEOs of French Defence related industries. The visit of Shri Mukherjee to France is highly significant as India is likely to achieve better results in the field of defence cooperation by way of strengthening the defence relations.

Defence relationship between India and France have been fairly robust in the field of supply and production of defence related equipments. The India-France Defence MOU signed in 1982 and Indo-French High Committee set up in 1998 are the landmarks in India-France Defence Cooperation. Cooperation has also increased in the field of joint exercises, security dialogue and training.

Shortly after his arrival in Paris on Sep 03, the Defence Minister will go to Neuve Chapelle to pay homage at the Indian Soldiers’ Memorial. The memorial was built in honour of the Army of India which fought in France and Belgium during the First and Second World Wars and in remembrance of those servicemen who have no known grave.

In the second leg of his tour, Shri Mukherjee will arrive in Berlin on Sep 05. The two countries are likely to sign a Defence Cooperation Agreement for strengthening defence relations. Shri Mukherjee is visiting Germany with an aim to enhance Defence Cooperation between the two countries which is at present not so wide. India is interested in enhancing defence cooperation with Germany in the field of Defence Technology and Training. Both the countries are also interested in cooperation in the field of Joint Naval Exercises and more interaction between the armed forces. Shri Mukherjee will hold bilateral talks with his counterpart Mr. Franz Josef Jung and the German Minister for Economics and Technology Mr. Michael Gloss. He will also meet the captains of German Defence Industries. During his stay in Berlin, the Defence Minister will pay his homage at the Zehrensdorf Indian Cemetery where lie the graves of 206 Indian soldiers, who died as prisoners during the First World War in Halbmond and Windberg Prisoner of War camps near Zossen. The cemetery has been rebuilt by the Common Wealth War Graves Commission.

 

[aaaditya]

Waylander,
Thanks for your input. However if you read the news report, it's the Indian govt. which imposed restrictions on defence imports from Germany not the other way. What you say is true if German Govt. imposed the sales embargo. Thats not the case and it seems your chancellor ms.Merkel spoke to our PM during his visit to Germany last year to sort out the matter. Strange. I will try to find out what exactly is the story.

I saw a documentary on Pzh2000 in Military channel. It's rate of fire was awesome and it took only two men to drive, set up and fire it. While India is looking for 155 /52 calibre artillary, I don't think they are looking for tracked artillary. Indian army has a concern that due to their heavy weight strategic mobility is a problem. Currently 155 /52 calibre guns are under feildtrial. Bofors FH 77 B05L52 and Soltam TIG 2002 are in the running.

you are mistaken kams indian army is looking for both field and self propelled artillery guns of the 155mm/52 caliber,and if both guns can be acquired from a single vendor it would be well and good,that is the reason why the participants till date have been israel,sweden and south africa all of which are capable of offering both the sph and the fh and this i believe this is where germany loses since they can offer only sph's.

indian army hopes to standardise its artillery around the 155mm/52 caliber howitzers(both self propelled and field artillery) and multi barelled rocket launchers,there is a requiremt for upto 6000 artillery guns of both the types.

 

[vijayshimla]

155/52 Artillery

Waylander,
Thanks for your input. However if you read the news report, it's the Indian govt. which imposed restrictions on defence imports from Germany not the other way. What you say is true if German Govt. imposed the sales embargo. Thats not the case and it seems your chancellor ms.Merkel spoke to our PM during his visit to Germany last year to sort out the matter. Strange. I will try to find out what exactly is the story.

I saw a documentary on Pzh2000 in Military channel. It's rate of fire was awesome and it took only two men to drive, set up and fire it. While India is looking for 155 /52 calibre artillary, I don't think they are looking for tracked artillary. Indian army has a concern that due to their heavy weight strategic mobility is a problem. Currently 155 /52 calibre guns are under feildtrial. Bofors FH 77 B05L52 and Soltam TIG 2002 are in the running.

SOUTH AFRICAN ARTILLERY SYSTEM G6/52 SHOOTS MILES AHEAD OF EUROPEAN AND US TECHNOLOGY AGAIN-An artillery system that rocked the world with its 39km range when it entered service in the early 1980s is being modernized to outrange the latest NATO howitzers. The technology can be readily applied to weapons already in the inventories of countries such as China and Iraq. South Africa’s G6 155mm howitzer is now being developed to achieve ranges of 50km, 60km or even 70km, according to an exclusive report in the November issue of Jane’s Jane's International Defence Review (IDR)- I came across this on the net and was just wondering why this artillery system is not competing in India’s Artillery compettion ?. To somebody uninitiated like me, it seems- are we favouring systems like Bofors FH 77 B05L52 and Soltam TIG 2002, which might not be the best in the world? Some light in this matter would be welcome.