Indian Army News and Discussion

Which Attack Helicopter Should Indian Army opt for


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gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Even when the Apache AH-64 attack helicopters existed, The Kamov 'Hokum', helicopter was said to be the best.

by who?

where has the Hokum ever been battlefield deployed?

how was it compared?

what is "the best"?? it's a meaningless term and needs context.

what is unique about it against comparative requirements?

what has this got to do with the thread?

no reply is needed - the message in my responses is clear - and read the forum rules about our attitude towards "best of" commentary.
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Thread is now open - On the condition that there will be attitude control & rules of the forum would be observed strictly.
 
Last edited:

aaaditya

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #543
hey guys,great news here,indian special protection group commandos have been re-equipped with more advanced weaponery.

check out this link and article,check out their new uniforms:

http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/i...&id=13607&sectionid=3&Itemid=1&page=in&latn=2




The Special Protection Group (SPG)—that exclusively protects the prime minister, Congress President Sonia Gandhi and former prime ministers—unveiled a new sub-unit on Independence Day.
As its 'principal' (bodyguard-speak for the protectee) delivered the traditional address from the ramparts of the Red Fort, the SPG's new counter-assault force stood guard below.



The force is meant to withstand and repel heavy fire assaults even as the SPG's proximate protection whisks the prime minister away to safety. It is equipped with body armour capable of withstanding AK-47 rounds.

The counter-assault force has replaced traditional SPG weapons like the venerable Uzi, MP-5 sub-machine guns and Glock pistols with Belgian arms maker FN Herstal products- the 'Five Seven' pistol, the P-90 submachine gun and FN 2000 Tactical Assault Rifle.
SPG officials say the force, first introduced by the US Secret Service, was specially trained and fielded after threat perceptions of attacks by heavily armed, bulletproof jacket-wearing desperadoes. The 5.7x28 mm armour-piercing ammunition fired by the P-90 pistol can deal with such threats.
In the pipeline are special armoured cars for the force. The SPG will get its own wings-four of 12 VVIP triple-engined helicopters being contracted from Italy's Augusta-Westland at a cost of Rs 110 crore each. Who said protecting the chief executive came cheap.
 

niteshkjain

New Member
hey guys check this, this is the first time Indian Army will have command over nuclear arsenal

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?gid=73&id=602695

Army General to take command of nuclear arsenal

NEW DELHI, AUG 25(PTI)
For the first time, an army General is set to take over command of the country's strategic forces and nuclear arsenal.

Lt-Gen Balraj Singh Nagal will take over command of the country's strategic forces and nuclear arsenal, an official announcement said.

Nagal, currently Director General (logistics) at the army headquarters, will take over as Commander-In-Chief of the strategic forces command on September 30, the announcement said.

The army general will take over from Vice-Admiral Vijay Shanker, who has been shifted as Commander-In-Chief of the nation's other Tri-service command based in Andaman and Nicobar Island.

Nagal, would be the first army officer to take over command of the nuclear weapon operating forces. So far, only Air Force and Naval officers have headed the command, which was set up very recently.

Army along with Air Force are the only two forces operating nuclear missiles and bombs. India, so far, is making efforts to build an under-sea missile launch capability.

Army has raised three to four specialised missile groups to operate both the short- and the long-range surface-to-surface Prithvi and Agni missiles. Both the missiles have the capability to carry conventional as well as nuclear warheads.

Army has also set up a new unit to operate the Indo-Russian supersonic Brahmos cruise missile.
 

tatra

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
I Have Heard That Israelis Have Integrated A Missile Named "lahat" As One Of The Weapons Of Arjun Any Idea??
The LAHAT missile can be fired by 105 and 120mm tank guns as well as from other (non gun) launchers, including ground and helicopter launchers.
Google LAHAT a bit please
 

niteshkjain

New Member
Guys some interesting developments about F-INSAS:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/..._upgrade_for_soldiers/articleshow/3409655.cms

Pune plans tech upgrade for soldiers
27 Aug 2008, 0342 hrs IST,TNN

PUNE: City-based Armament research and development establishment (ARDE) is developing technology which it hopes will turn the future soldier into a “system in himself”.

From computer-monitored body suits conveying details of the soldier’s health to the nearest post to shoes that generate charge as he walks for batteries in the equipment he’ll carry, the future infantry soldier as a system (F-INSAS) project aims to accomplish much more.

Surendra Kumar, director of ARDE, told reporters on Tuesday that the programme will integrate a miniature computer system with the soldier.

While the current cost of indegeniously developing the technology is pegged between Rs 75 and Rs 100 crore, it would cost the country around Rs 500 crore to import the same, said Kumar.

“Currently, the capacity of a soldier on the border is limited to the equipment he carries. We seek to empower him with multi-purpose weapons that will help him through every possible situation,” said Kumar.

The ARDE is working on ‘round the corner combat’ weapons that will help locate the exact position of the enemy and communicate that to the soldier. “The new weapons will have long range and high accuracy,” said Kumar.

Giving details of the body suit the ARDE is developing, Kumar said it will have nodes monitoring the soldier’s health while he is out on the field. In the event of him being hit or injured, his condition will be auto-communicated to the nearest post.

Kumar said that while the weapon prototypes “have been realised”, the ARDE will discuss the designs with the Army. “It will take three years to roll out the state-of-the-art weapons and five years for the entire concept of F-INSAS. We make it a point to involve the ultimate users right from the concept stage,” said Kumar.

‘Invisible’ vehicle The ultimate protection for the soldier is the proposed infantry combat vehicle (F-ICV) containing special armaments. “Key highlight of the vehicle is that certain protruding instruments will automatically change colour according to the surroundings, such that they are invisible to the naked eye,” said Kumar.
 

niteshkjain

New Member
Upgrade the salary of the CIS (current infantry soldiers), might do them a bigger favour than guns that shoot around the corner.
Well, your point is valid for that armed forces are in discussions with government but does that means the all this should be stopped?
 

niteshkjain

New Member
Good article about Indian Army modernization plans, putting it in two parts as the post is long

http://www.kanglaonline.com/index.php?template=kshow&kid=1294

Modernisation Plans of the Indian Army

By: Gurmeet Kanwal


Despite the army leadership’s best efforts, the ongoing Revolution in Military Affairs (RMA) had, till recently, almost completely bypassed the Indian Army. For well over a decade the army’s efforts to modernise had been thwarted due to political neglect and lack of adequate budgetary support. The funds made available for modernisation are extremely limited and a large portion of these funds is surrendered year after year. For Financial Year 2006-07, a sum of Rs 3,000 crore was surrendered as unspent. The fact that 155 mm ammunition for the Bofors howitzer had to be imported from South Africa during the Kargil conflict in 1999 tells its own tale of persistent shortages. Had the conflict not been confined to the 150 km frontage of the Kargil sector, T-72 and 130 mm medium gun ammunition too would have run short and it would have been politically embarrassing for the government as well as the army. In the plains the army would have had to fight with obsolete Vijayant tanks and several other vintage equipment that were unsuitable for combat. However, sustained efforts by Army HQ have now borne fruit and the army’s modernisation drive is once again well underway.

In the prevailing era of strategic uncertainty, while terrorism has become the primary threat, the external and internal threats and challenges faced by India are such that a large army is still required to be maintained. Also, a high degree of preparation and operational readiness is still necessary as conventional war, though improbable, cannot be categorically ruled out. At the same time, heavy capital investments in modern defence equipment are undoubtedly a drain on a developing economy that is ill-equipped to handle the burgeoning defence expenditure. Several eminent analysts have recommended that qualitative upgradation should be accompanied by quantitative downsizing of personnel strength of the army. However, given its responsibilities for border management and the manpower-intensive low intensity conflict that the army is involved in, this is easier said than done.

Future conventional conflict on the Indian s ub-continent will in all probability result from the ongoing low-intensity limited war on the Line of Control (LoC) with Pakistan or the unresolved territorial and boundary dispute with China and will be predominantly a land conflict. The Indian Army seriously lacks a potent firepower punch, especially in the mountain sector. Precision-guided munitions (PGMs) have still to enter service in numbers large enough to make a real difference. The reconnaissance, surveillance and target acquisition (RSTA) assets necessary for the optimum exploitation of even the existing firepower assets are grossly inadequate. Automated command and control and decision support systems have been on the drawing boards for several decades but are yet to mature.

In a future conventional war that will be fought under the nuclear shadow, manoeuvre will be extremely limited. This restriction will lead to much greater emphasis being placed on firepower to achieve the laid down military aim. Hence, it is imperative that artillery modernisation is undertaken with alacrity so as to generate firepower asymmetries on the future battlefield. After a long spell of keeping the powder dry, action on modernisation of the Indian artillery is livening up once again. Since January 2008, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has issued three global tenders for 155mm guns and howitzers for the mountains, the plains and self-propelled guns for the deserts. Summer and winter trials are expected to be held over the next one year and, red tape permitting, contracts may be awarded as early as in the first half of 2010.

Artillery firepower had paved the way for victory during the Kargil conflict. Despite the lessons learnt in Kargil, modernisation of the artillery had continued to lag behind. The last major acquisition of towed gun-howitzers was that of about 400 pieces of 39-calibre 155mm FH-77B howitzers form Bofors of Sweden in the mid-1980s. This gun had proved its mettle in the Kargil conflict. Just when a contract for 120 tracked and 180 wheeled self-propelled (SP) 155mm guns was about to be concluded after years of protracted trials, South African arms manufacturer Denel, a leading contender for the contract, was alleged to have been involved in a corruption scam in an earlier deal for anti-material rifles (AMRs). The other two howitzers in contention, from Soltam of Israel and BAE (Bofors) of Sweden did not meet the laid down criteria according to the COAS and Army HQ recommended fresh trials, setting the programme back at least three to four years. Another key issue was that the howitzers that had been offered were technology demonstration models and not guns that were in actual service with the home country armies.

The probability of the next conventional war breaking out in the mountains is far higher than that of a war in the plains. With this in view, the artillery recently conceptualised a requirement for a light-weight towed howitzer of 155mm calibre for employment in the mountains. Neither the present Bofors howitzer nor its replacement will be capable of operations in the mountains. A light-weight 45-calibre 155mm howitzer weighing less than 5,000 kg, with a light but adequately powered prime mover, is ideal for the mountains. The gun-train should be capable of negotiating sharp road bends without the need to unhook the gun from the prime mover. The two British 45-calibre 155mm howitzers that competed for the US contract for a similar howitzer some years ago – the UFH (Ultra-lightweight Field Howitzer) and the LTH (Light-weight Towed Howitzer) – could be considered for licensed production with transfer of technology.

In January 2008, the MoD floated a Request for Proposal (RfP) for 140 pieces of ultra-light 39 calibre 155mm towed howitzers for use by the Indian Army’s mountain formations and, presumably, by its rapid reaction divisions – as and when these are raised as it will be easy to transport by air. 140 howitzers will be adequate to equip seven medium artillery regiments and will cost approximately Rs 3,000 crore. The RfP has been reportedly issued to UK’s BAE Systems (which now owns Bofors), for the M777 howitzer claimed to be the lightest in the world at under 4,220 kg, and to Singapore Technologies for the Pegasus SLWH.

India has floated a global tender for the purchase of 400 155mm towed artillery guns for the Army, to be followed by indigenous manufacture of another 1,100 howitzers, in a project worth a whopping Rs 8,000 crore. The RFP was issued to eight prospective bidders including BAE, General Dynamics, Nexter (France), Rhinemetall (Germany) and Samsung (South Korea). An RfP has also been issued for 180 wheeled self-propelled guns for around Rs 4,700 crore for employment by mechanised forces in the plains and semi-desert sectors.

Since the Bofors 155mm Howitzer was introduced into service, the indigenously designed and manufactured 105 mm Indian Field Gun (IFG) and its (not so) light version, the Light Field Gun (LFG), have joined the 75/24 Indian Mountain Gun, the 100mm Russian field gun and the 122mm Russian howitzer on the obsolescence list. Approximately 180 pieces of 130mm M46 Russian medium guns have been successfully “up-gunned” to 155mm calibre with ordnance supplied by Soltam of Israel. The new barrel length of 45 calibres has enhanced the range of the gun to about 40 km with extended range ammunition.

A contract for the acquisition of two regiments of the 12-tube, 300mm Smerch multi-barrel rocket launcher (MBRL) system with 90 km range was reported to have been signed with Russia’s Rosoboronexport in early-2006. This will be a major boost for the long-range firepower capabilities of the army. If this weapon system had been available during the Kargil conflict, Pakistan’s brigade HQ and forward airfield at Skardu and other targets deep inside POK could have been hit with impunity. Extended range (ER) rockets are being introduced for the 122 mm Grad MBRL that has been in service for over three decades. The ER rockets will enhance the weapon system’s range from 22 to about 40 km. A Rs 5,000 crore contract has also been signed for the serial production of the Pinaka MBRL weapon system, another DRDO project plagued by time delays and completed with help from Larsen and Toubro and the Tatas.

The modernisation plan of tube artillery alone is likely to cost Rs 13,000 crore. The major acquisitions will be of initial lots of 400 towed howitzers of 155mm calibre, with a barrel length of 52 calibres, costing about Rs 4,000 crore, 140 ultra-light weight 155mm towed howitzers, with a barrel length of 45 calibres, costing Rs 3,000 crore and 180 SP 155mm howitzers costing Rs 5,000 crore. The “Shakti” project for a command and control systems for the artillery, called Artillery Combat Command and Control System (ACCCS), has reached the stage of maturity and is now being fielded up to the regimental level.

The BrahMos supersonic cruise missile (Mach 2.8 to 3.0), with a precision strike capability, very high kill energy and range of 290 km, was inducted into the army in July 2007. It is a versatile missile that can be launched from TATRA mobile launchers and silos on land, aircraft and ships and, perhaps in future, also from submarines. Fifty BrahMos missiles are expected to be produced every year. Efforts are underway to further increase its strike range. BrahMos Aerospace has orders worth Rs 3,500 crore from the army and the navy, which has opted for the anti-ship as well as the land attack cruise missile (LACM) versions. These terrain hugging missiles are virtually immune to counter measures due to their high speed and very low radar cross section and are far superior to sub-sonic cruise missiles like Pakistan’s Babur. Chile, Kuwait, Malaysia and South Africa have shown interest in acquiring this missile.

The Indian army is extensively engaged in ongoing internal security (IS) and counter-insurgency operations (CI) and simultaneously needs to prepare itself for a future border conflict that may spill over to a larger conventional war in the plains. In keeping with these twin requirements, Army HQ have apparently decided to upgrade the IS and CI capabilities of infantry battalions as well as enhance their Infantry firepower-mobility-EW (electronic warfare) punch for a possible war in the plains against Pakistan or in the mountains against China. The Army Chief’s modernisation vision is to “adapt to high-end technology, improve night-fighting capability… (and) information technology, information warfare and network centric warfare.”

Despite its large-scale employment on border management and extensive commitments in Internal Security and Counter Insurgency operations, infantry modernisation had been languishing for several decades when the Ministry of Defence (MoD) finally cleared a visionary plan to modernise the army’s infantry battalions by according “in principle” approval in the form of Modification 4B to the war establishment (WE) of a standard infantry battalion in 1998. However, no funds were specially sanctioned for this purpose till the BJP-led NDA government approved the expenditure of Rs 3,500 crore in September 2003. Thereafter, approval had to be sought on file for each new weapon system or piece of equipment on a “case-by-case” basis as has become the norm. It is by now well-known how each such case chronicles the saga of an uphill struggle to get approval first from the MoD, then MoD (Finance) and, finally, the Ministry of Finance (MoF). All this is only possible after the DRDO has first certified that the weapon system or equipment in question cannot be developed and manufactured indigenously and such a certificate is hard to come by.

While 250 Kornet-E anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) with thermal imaging sights have substantially increased the anti-tank capability of infantry battalions, most efforts to modernise the equipment held by infantry and Rashtriya Rifles (RR) units are aimed at enhancing their capability for surveillance and target acquisition at night and boosting their firepower for precise retaliation against infiltrating columns and terrorists holed up in built-up areas. About 200 hand-held BFSRs with practical ranges up to seven to eight km where clear line of sight is available, 2,000 hand-held thermal imaging devices (HHTIs) with ranges up to 2,000 metres for observation at night and stand-alone infra-red, seismic and acoustic sensors with varying capabilities have enabled infantrymen to dominate the Line of Control so completely that infiltration has come down to almost a trickle.

The newly acquired weapons, which complement these surveillance and observation devices, include: 1,500x84 mm rocket launchers, including some disposable ones; 1,000 AMRs (anti-material rifles); 8,000 UBGLs (under-barrel grenade launchers); 4,000 new generation carbines; 300 bullet proof vehicles; and, several hundred accurate sniper rifles. However, the numbers acquired and the ammunition stocks are still inadequate and need to be made up more rapidly. While the INSAS 5.56 mm assault rifles have now been in service for almost 10 years and proved to be effective, the light machine gun (LNG) version is still facing teething problems and the carbine version for close quarter battle has not found favour with the army. New 5.56 mm assault rifles of bull-pup design with an integrated laser range finder and grenade launcher are under development. Efforts are also being made to provide infantry platoons and sections with integrated GPS-based navigation system, secure light-weight walkie-talkie radio sets and better protective gear with a helmet that incorporates a built-in head-up display.

The mechanised infantry is now equipped with the BMP-2 ICV Sarath of which over 1,000 have been built since 1987. A new variant is the 81 mm Carrier Mortar Tracked Vehicle (CMTV) that is based on the chassis of the Sarath ICV and has been indigenously developed to enhance the integral firepower available to mechanised infantry battalions. Other variants include a command post, an ambulance, armoured dozer and engineer and reconnaissance vehicles. Mechanised reconnaissance and support battalions need better surveillance radars, fire-and-forget ATGMs and effective night fighting capability. However, their capabilities can be upgraded on a lower priority compared with infantry battalions that are engaged in border management and IS/CI operations.

The army’s infantry battalions also need their own mini or micro UAVs like Elbit’s Skylark or Rafael’s Skylite, among others, to partly reduce the extent of patrolling necessary in internal security environment and to improve their surveillance capability in conventional conflict. These UAVs should have a range of about 10 to 15 km, should be light-weight (less than 10 kg), hand-launched, carry a single payload, e.g. a daylight video camera or infra-red camera for night operations, and should be inexpensive enough to be dispensable. A mini ground control station should be authorized at battalion HQ for planning and control. Ideally, these should be indigenously designed and developed and locally manufactured.

A new DRDO project, that is reported to be ongoing, aims to equip future soldiers with lightweight force multipliers. Soldiers of the future will have miniaturised communication and GPS systems, small power packs, weapon platforms and smart vests with fibre-optic sensors. The soldiers will also have better and lighter combat fatigues, boots, belts, ammunition pouches, rucksacks and rations in the form of meals-ready-to-eat. Though somewhat akin to the US Army’s Land Warrior programme, the Indian Army programme for modernisation of infantry battalions will result in only incremental changes. However, these would be significant enough to make a difference on the battlefields of the Indian sub-continent. The infantryman’s average combat load is approximately 27 kg, including the 3.06 kg 5.56 mm INSAS assault rifle and its “on weapon” ammunition. If this can be reduced by even a few kg, it will enable the soldier to improve his agility in battle and counter-insurgency operations. Ultimately an infantryman has to be prepared to engage in hand-to-hand combat and agility can make a difference between life and death.

For over 350 infantry battalions, plus about 150 Rashtriya Rifles, Assam Rifles and Territorial Army battalions, these major changes will be extremely costly to implement and will spill over at least 10 to 12 years – that is, if the funds can be found. What is certain is that there is no alternative to making the financial commitment that is necessary to enhance the operational capabilities of the army’s infantry battalions. Without modernising this cutting edge of its sword, the army will soon begin to resemble the armies of India’s lesser neighbours.

The indigenously designed Arjun main battle tank (MBT) has been in the pipeline for over two decades. Though the tank has many good features, it has consistently failed to meet the army’s GSQR for an MBT and orders have been placed for only 124 tanks to be manufactured. The lack of progress on the Arjun MBT had slowed down the pace of armour modernisation. India then signed a deal with Russia to acquire 310 T-90S tanks in the year 2000. Subsequently, India began to assemble these tanks at Avadi. It has recently been reported that in addition to these, India has decided to acquire another 347 T-90S tanks and assemble them within the country.

The first Indian assembled T-90S (Bhishma) rolled off the production line on January 8, 2004. While T-90S Russian tanks have provided new teeth to India’s strike formations in the plains and corrected the imbalance that had resulted from Pakistan’s acquisition of T-80 UD from Ukraine and the Al Khalid tanks jointly designed with China, a large number of T-72 (Ajeya) tanks are still awaiting modernisation. The lack of a suitable fire control system and night fighting capability are major handicaps. As soon as the obsolescent Vijayanta tanks are phased out of service, it will be time to also discard the old T-55s as well as they can no longer be either upgraded or modernised. Armour modernisation is now proceeding apace and can be classified as a success story.

The air defence (AD) of mechanised forces is another area that is crying for attention. The Kvadrat missile system that has been the backbone of AD for strike formations since the early 1970s are now ageing and need urgent replacement. With the DRDO’s indigenous Akash medium-range and Trishul short-range missile projects not making major headway, it is time to start looking at import substitutes. In fact, the assets of Army Air Defence corps of the army are grossly inadequate to provide effective protection against enemy aircraft during war. This young corps requires substantial capital infusion to really come into its own.

Another DRDO project that is way behind schedule is the Nag anti-tank missile system. The antiquated Jonga-mounted SS-11 B1 anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) system has been replaced in missile battalions by MILAN shoulder-fired ATGMs. However, a vehicle-mounted missile system like the Nag is definitely necessary for reconnaissance and attrition tasks. The experimental Plan AREN tactical communications system for strike formations needs early replacement. The ability to carry broadband data needs to be enhanced in particular. Even the more recent static communications network called ASCON lacks ISDN capability for the real-time transmission of maps and streaming video.
 

niteshkjain

New Member
While some Stentor long-range BFSRs have been in service for over a decade, medium-range radars are still to be acquired. At least about 30 to 40 weapon locating radars (WLRs) are required for effective counter-bombardment, especially in the plains, and only a few have been procured so far. Israeli Searcher-I unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) have been introduced into service but these are few in number and it will be a long time before these will really make a difference by providing a real-time surveillance capability so that ground forces can initiate action even as a fresh input is received. Only a small number of Searcher – II UAVs, with an upper ceiling that makes them suitable for the mountains, have been acquired.

An automated command and control and decision support system for use by the General Staff is still a far cry and so are supporting systems like the battlefield surveillance system and air space management system. The urgent requirement of real-time satellite reconnaissance systems has still not been accepted despite the nuclear overhang under which the armed forces now operate. Even though the cameras on India’s remote sensing and cartographic satellites now have sharply enhanced resolutions, less than one metre, military-grade photographs of still better resolution are needed to be purchased from the open market. These sources may dry up quickly during war.

A “system of systems” approach must be followed so that scarce RSTA and communications resources can be synergistically configured and optimally exploited. The war in Iraq fought in March-April 2003 was based on the concept of “network-centric warfare” in which surveillance sensors, targeting systems and “shooters” are fused together in a seamless “system of systems” that reduced response time between the acquisition of a target and its destruction to 15 to 20 minutes. While such a system may take over a decade to establish, a beginning must be made right away.

PGMs are increasingly gaining currency as weapons of choice in conflict on land, both to accurately destroy critical hard targets quickly as well as to avoid or at least minimise collateral damage. During the Gulf War I in 1991, despite all the CNN-generated hype of smart bombs flying unerringly through ventilators, PGMs formed less than 10 percent of the total high explosive dropped over Iraq and were rather inaccurate. The “collateral” destruction of an air raid shelter harbouring women and children has been too well documented to bear recounting. The coalition forces did not destroy a single Iraqi Scud missile launcher. In Kosovo, PGMs accounted for about 30 per cent of the ordnance dropped and accuracies had improved considerably by 1999. In the post-September 11, 2001 retribution inflicted on the Taliban militia and its al Qaeda supporters in Afghanistan, the share of PGMs had risen to nearly 60 percent. In Gulf War II in Iraq, the ratio of PGMs went up to nearly 70 per cent. The Indian artillery does not have any PGMs worth the name. Only limited quantities of the Russian Krasnopol PGM have been imported for the Bofors 155 mm howitzer. Among others, the Bofors Bonus PGM is a suitable candidate, subject to successful trials in the deserts and the mountains.

Finally, the approach to army modernisation must be more focused; the priorities must be clearly established and then adhered to. The government must give a firm commitment in terms of funds and the Ministry of Defence must streamline its procedures and processes for speedy procurement of high priority weapons and equipment. It is time to institute a rolling, non-lapsable defence modernisation fund of Rs. 25,000 crores as a viable method of ensuring that defence procurement is not subjected to the vagaries of annual budgets. The present situation is disturbing and, if allowed to go on indefinitely, will seriously compromise the army’s preparedness to fight the next border war that inimical neighbours like Pakistan can be expected to thrust on India.—(ADNI)

(The writer is Director, Centre for Land Warfare Studies, New Delhi.)
 

niteshkjain

New Member
This could be a significant move:

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=605097

UK's largest military systems manufacturer BAE Systems today said it is awaiting the government's approval for picking up a 49 per cent stake in a defence joint venture with Mahindra group.

India has restricted foreign participation in domestic defence production in the private sector to about 26 per cent and the government is already debating the possibility of allowing foreign companies to pick up 49 per cent stake.

"We are picking up a 49 per cent shareholding in M&M's defence venture, for which we have sought clearance from the Indian government," BAE Systems India's newly-appointed president Julian Scopes said here today.

BAE Systems' proposal needs to be cleared by the government's Foreign Investment Promotion Board (FIPB).

Due to the restrictions, BAE Systems has sought an exception to the rule from the government, as it has done in the case of some Defence Public Sector Undertakings (PSUs).

"Rules say exceptions can be made. We have made the request through the FIPB in May-June this year and are in discussions with the government. The Indian Defence Ministry has an important say in this regard and we are waiting to hear from the government on our request," Scopes said.

Under the arrangement with automotive-to-technology conglomerate Mahindras, BAE Systems would bring in global intellectual capabilities in land vehicles systems, particularly in the area of mine protected vehicles for which the British major has done advanced technology development work in South Africa.

With India's need for mine-resistant vehicles on the rise, BAE Systems sees greater scope for their business to expand in the Indian defence market, he said.

"Mine protected vehicles apart, BAE Systems can bring in expertise to Mahindras in Artillery systems too. BAE Systems has varied experience in air, land and sea platforms and systems integration, which could be a spin-off of the tie-up with Mahindras," Scopes said.

He, however, pointed out that the issue of restricted ownership of defence assets was already "frustrating" several private industries eager to enter into an agreement with foreign manufacturers.

"We are not demanding from the government to allow 49 per cent stake to foreign companies in Indian private defence industry, but have only put up our case before it," said Guy Douglas, BAE Systems India head of communications, who was present during the media interaction.

Stating that his company was implementing new strategic approach towards India, which was a key defence market to operate, Scopes said BAE Systems was here in New Delhi to be part of the Indian defence industry.

"We are not here just to sell, but to be an integral part of India's defence industrial base. We have come here to establish ourselves through partnerships and joint ventures with Indian private defence industry, employ Indians and develop equipment for the armed forces and exports. We want to do design and development, manufacture, and export businesses in India," he said.

BAE Systems, as a company, has changed in the last eight years, Scopes said, pointing out that it had significant operations not just in UK, but also in other parts of the world such as US (becoming the 6th largest supplier to US' Pentagon), Australia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa and Sweden.
 

kay_man

New Member
India and Russia may develop a wide range of combat vehicles together:

http://forceindia.net/feature2.asp

Russia may buy the DRDO-developed HUMS suite from India

One may not be faulted for wondering how a country can play host to two significant exhibitions dedicated to land forces armaments and related technologies within a 40-day period. Yet, that is exactly what recently happened in Russia. The first such expo was the Russian Expo Arms 2008, the sixth biannual exhibition of weapon systems for land forces, which was held between July 9 and 12 in the town of Nizhny Tagil.

The second expo, called the International Defence Exhibition for Land Forces (IDELF), was held between August 20 and 24 in Moscow and attracted 80 high-level official delegations from Algeria, Angola, Armenia, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bulgaria, Canada, China, Congo, Cuba, Cyprus, Djibouti, Egypt, Estonia, Ethiopia, Finland, Greece, Guinea, India, Indonesia, Iran, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Libya, Macedonia, Malaysia, Mongolia, Nigeria, North Korea, Poland, Senegal, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, the United Arab Emirates, the US, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Vietnam, and Yemen. All in all, IDELF 2008 played host to more than 500 Russian exhibitors, with the sole Indian exhibitor being BrahMos Aerospace.

Although Russia’s latest R&D ventures involving new-generation weapon systems were not showcased at IDELF, there was considerable optimistic buzz among informed senior Russian military-industrial officials regarding the almost clinched deal for large-scale industrial cooperation with regard to the co-development between India and Russia to develop a futuristic family of tracked armoured combat vehicles.

While the mass media in India has thus far only publicised two projects — the futuristic main battle tank (FMBT) and futuristic infantry combat vehicle (FICV) — that are to be jointly developed by Russia’s Uralvagonzavod JSC and the Ural Design Office of Transport Mechanical Engineering on one hand, and India’s Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) — the scope of the overall joint R&D effort goes way beyond these two vehicles.

It is believed that Russia’s Rosoboronexport State Corp as far back as 2006 had proposed to India’s ministry of defence (MoD) and Army HQ an ambitious plan to develop a family of futuristic armoured combat vehicles (all sharing a common hull, automotive package and open-architecture vectronics suite) that included the T-95 FMBT, the FICV (to be made available in three versions: one for the ground forces, one for airborne forces, and an amphibious variant for naval infantry), a tracked 155mm/52-cal field artillery howitzer and its ammunition resupply vehicle, a vehicle housing a turret-mounted rifled-bore 120mm breech-loading mortar, an armoured recovery vehicle, an armoured bridge layer, and a vehicle that will be able to house a variety of turret-mounted air-defence weapons, ranging from high-velocity rapid-fire twin 30mm cannons to E-SHORADS missiles and their related target acquisition/target engagement radars and optronic fire-control systems.

All these vehicles will be powered by a 1,200hp four-stroke V-12 diesel engine. As far as the Army HQ’s Directorate General of Mechanised Forces is concerned, the acquisition of such a fleet of new-generation vehicles with unprecedented systems commonality augurs extremely well in terms of not only operational availability of combat capabilities, but also greatly simplified operational logistics.

Senior officials of the Russian Army’s Armoured Weapons Directorate and Uralvagonzavod JSC disclosed that the development of such futuristic armoured weapon systems began as far back as 1988, but reached the decisive product development stage only in 2004. The overall design concept of such vehicles being highly modular, there is considerable scope for Indian industrial participation.

While the vehicles meant for the Russian armed forces will have 100 per cent systems and components sourced from within Russia, the vehicles for India (both for the army and navy) will have 85 per cent indigenous content, with only the FMBT’s 152mm/44-cal smoothbore main gun and the FICV’s on-board hyper-velocity 8km-range anti-armour guided-missiles being supplied off-the-shelf by Russia.

The 50-tonne FMBT, known in Russia as the T-95 or Object 775, will be manned by a three-man crew, and will have a small unmanned turret housing a rotating autoloader connected to a rear-mounted ammunition bustle housing up to 40 FSAPDS kinetic-energy rounds. Seats for the driver, gunner and commander will be located in an armoured capsule that will be separated by an armoured bulkhead from the automatic loader and turret.

This radical design has resulted in the T-95’s silhouette being reduced dramatically, making it less observable on the battlefield. Such a configuration also resolves a major dilemma concerning futuristic MBT designs — combining adequate protection with manoeuvrability and ground/air transportability. The T-95 will also be equipped with an active protection system (APS), and an open-architecture vectronics suite using the MIL-STD-1553B digital data bus.

Main elements of the vectronics suite will include an all-digital hunter-killer fire-control system (comprising the ballistics computer, gunner’s primary sight and a novel mast-mounted commander’s panoramic sight), a combined battle space management system (BMS) and health-and-usage management system (HUMS), and a hybrid GPS/fibre-optic gyro-based autonomous land navigation system. The FMBT’s first round hit capability while on the move will be more than 92 per cent.
well well well . it is the t-95 after all.
i had heard specifications that at the begining t-95 will have a 125mm gun / 130mm and later on 155mm. hope its not true.
hope they make room for the 155 mm gun from the begining so later on there will still be scope for improvement.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
well well well . it is the t-95 after all.
i had heard specifications that at the begining t-95 will have a 125mm gun / 130mm and later on 155mm. hope its not true.
hope they make room for the 155 mm gun from the begining so later on there will still be scope for improvement.
I'd take all that with a large bucket of salt. Prasun Sengupta is perhaps the least reliable defence journalist on the planet.
 

Rish

New Member
Seems like the army is looking for a mini-uav for the battle. I don't know much about the capabilities of uavs of this class, but it seems to me like the army is asking for quiet a lot.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ler_role/articleshow/msid-3578125,curpg-2.cms

Army wants mini spy drones with 'killer role'

NEW DELHI: The Army has launched a global hunt for a "massive" induction of "mini" and "micro" spy drones for short-range surveillance and intelli

gence-gathering missions as well as detection of NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) contaminants in the battlefield.

Interestingly, the Army even wants these man-portable spy drones or UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) to be capable of "a killer role". "They should be capable of carrying warheads and explosives for hard kill of light targets," said a source.

The Army, Navy and IAF, in fact, are all planning another major induction of UAVs, elated as they are with their experience of Israeli ‘Searcher-II' and ‘Heron' UAVs, inducted after the 1999 Kargil conflict and the 2002 Operation Parakram in the wake of the terror attack on Parliament.

At present, the armed forces have around 100 Israeli UAVs, with more being inducted in phases, which include the Harpy "killer drones" designed to detect and destroy enemy radars by functioning like cruise missiles.

The eventual aim, of course, is to have full-fledged UCAVs (unmanned combat aerial vehicles), which in the long run may well replace manned fighter jets for medium and long-range tactical as well as strategic bombing missions.

An interim step would be to have armed drones akin to the American "Predators", armed with ‘Hellfire' missiles and laser designators, which the US has extensively used in operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. The IAF, on its part, is already integrating its UAVs with weapon platforms for delivering precision-guided munitions. But coming back to the "mini" and "micro" UAVs, the 1.13-million strong Army wants to induct them in phases right down to the battalion-level by the end of the 12th Plan (2012-2017).

"Since it will take time to equip all the battalions, the first priority will be the units deployed in Jammu and Kashmir and the North-East. We want both the mini and micro UAVs to be light and modular to facilitate man-pack carriage by two to three soldiers," said the source.
s per specifications drawn up by the Army, the mini UAV should have a range up to 60 km, with a maximum operating ceiling of 25,000 feet, maximu

m weight of 40 kg and a minimum endurance of four hours with standard fuel tanks.

The micro one, in turn, should have a range over 15 km, with the maximum operating ceiling of 25,000 feet, maximum weight of 30 kg and a minimum endurance of two hours. Apart from the "killer" and NBC detection roles, the key features of these remotely-piloted spy drones include detection, recognition and identification of "human targets"; post-strike damage assessment; and communication and intelligence missions.

Since the drones will be stealthy in nature, the Army plans to also equip its Para (Special Forces) battalions with them for covert missions beyond enemy lines, counter-terrorism operations and ‘beyond-the-hill' surveillance. All this comes even as the Army is in the process of operationalising two new UAV squadrons of Israeli high-altitude Herons, with eight drones each for the Srinagar-based 15 Corps and Leh-based 14 Corps.
 

aaaditya

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #557
hey guys,check this out,it seems that the indian army is -planning to acquire uav's for its special forces which can serve as laser target designators,iam sure it will reduce the risk associated with the roles of forward artillery spotter .

here is the link and the article:

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200810121082.htm

UAVs for Special Forces to hit targets behind enemy lines

New Delhi (PTI): India is embarking on a defence project to develop unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) carrying Laser Target Designators (LTDs) to be used by its Special Forces to accurately hit targets inside enemy territory.
The country's premier defence research agency, DRDO, is spearheading the project, in partnership with the Army, Navy and IAF's Special Forces, that aims to reduce the risk of losing personnel operating behind enemy lines.
"We are planning to base LTDs on UAVs to cut down the risk of our troops getting caught inside enemy territory while illuminating targets for attack and save the cost of sending another aircraft for doing the task," a senior Defence Ministry official told PTI.
The LTDs, at present, are carried inside enemy territory by Special Forces troops, who focus it on enemy targets for the Air Force's aircraft to drop a Laser Guided Bomb (LGB) to hit the target.
The other way of doing the special operation is to send in two aircraft -- one to illuminate the target with laser and the other to attack the target -- which turns out to be a costly proposition for the armed forces.
"It was realised that sending troops with the LTDs six to seven km close to highly-guarded targets behind enemy lines and then flying in an aircraft to attack it was quite risky and very expensive," the official said. It was found that a UAV could fit the bill, as they can penetrate deep into enemy territory with minimal chance of being detected and can be operated from long distances using a remote. Moreover, there would be no loss of lives in the Special Forces troops, he said.
 

kay_man

New Member
hey guys,check this out,it seems that the indian army is -planning to acquire uav's for its special forces which can serve as laser target designators,iam sure it will reduce the risk associated with the roles of forward artillery spotter .

here is the link and the article:

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200810121082.htm

UAVs for Special Forces to hit targets behind enemy lines

New Delhi (PTI): India is embarking on a defence project to develop unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) carrying Laser Target Designators (LTDs) to be used by its Special Forces to accurately hit targets inside enemy territory.
The country's premier defence research agency, DRDO, is spearheading the project, in partnership with the Army, Navy and IAF's Special Forces, that aims to reduce the risk of losing personnel operating behind enemy lines.
"We are planning to base LTDs on UAVs to cut down the risk of our troops getting caught inside enemy territory while illuminating targets for attack and save the cost of sending another aircraft for doing the task," a senior Defence Ministry official told PTI.
The LTDs, at present, are carried inside enemy territory by Special Forces troops, who focus it on enemy targets for the Air Force's aircraft to drop a Laser Guided Bomb (LGB) to hit the target.
The other way of doing the special operation is to send in two aircraft -- one to illuminate the target with laser and the other to attack the target -- which turns out to be a costly proposition for the armed forces.
"It was realised that sending troops with the LTDs six to seven km close to highly-guarded targets behind enemy lines and then flying in an aircraft to attack it was quite risky and very expensive," the official said. It was found that a UAV could fit the bill, as they can penetrate deep into enemy territory with minimal chance of being detected and can be operated from long distances using a remote. Moreover, there would be no loss of lives in the Special Forces troops, he said.
I think the UAV they are talking about is the indegenous LAkshya UAV.
sounds like the Lakshya.
how ever can anyone tell me wheather the above mentioned mission requires a long endurance uav os a portable short endurance uav like lakshyaa can do the job ?
 

kay_man

New Member
a step closer towards alliance

India, China to Hold Joint Army Exercise in December




Dated 7/11/2008
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Taking the thaw in military-to-military relations between them a notch higher, India and China on Friday agreed to hold their next joint army exercise at Belgaum in Karnataka this December.

The fortnight-long exercise, the first on Indian soil, comes a year after the Indian Army and the Peoples Liberation Army had conducted their maiden military counter-terrorism exercise on Chinese soil last December at Kunming in south west China. Army headquarters sources told PTI that though the dates and venue for the exercise were agreed to "tentatively," at the bilateral meeting in progress in Beijing at present, a final confirmation from the Chinese was expected soon.

Belgaum has been suggested as the exercise venue by India, as it is home for its Army's Commando School. "December is when the school will be holding no courses and the campus would be available to host the Chinese troops," said an army officer who is closely associated with the talks in Beijing. India and China, which had fought a short war in 1962 that had strained relations for nearly four decades, had since the dawn of the 21st Century improved their defence ties.

Mukherjee, who had this week named China as a futuristic threat to India's economic and strategic national interest, was the architect of the improved defence ties, which was firmed up when he as defence minister in 2006 signed agreements for greater military-to-military exercises between New Delhi and Beijing.

Incidentally, Chinese navy chief Admiral Wu Sheng Li had visited New Delhi this week on a five-day visit to further strengthen navy-to-navy ties. Both navies have in the past held joint naval exercises too, particularly in 2007 as part of confidence building measures when Indian warships had visited the eastern coast of China and held naval war games.

Also, Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major is currently in China to meet his Peoples Liberation Army-Air Force counterpart and senior defence officials, apart from visiting air defence establishments in Beijing and Hanzhou, and attending the Zhuhai air show. The IAF has also loaned its Suryakiran aerobatics team for performing in the Chinese skies, for the first time, during the Zhuhai air show and it has already enthralled the audience there this week.

Major also carried India's proposal for a joint air exercise between the IAF and PLAAF, which both sides are currently discussing.

India has time and again expressed doubts over Chinese defence forces' expansion plans, particularly their deployment along the line of actual control along Tibet [Images] and the growing incursions by its navy in the Indian Ocean Region.

Now this is gonna be the mother of all exercises !!!
The 2 largest armies of the world in a joint exercise.
This is gonna be a spectacle.:nutkick:nutkick

Read the following & edit your posting accordingly. Or the post would be deleted.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8357
 
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Wagner243

New Member
hello fellow forumers,

I was wanting to ask a few questions pertaining to the Indian tanks & the IAF. I've noticed if im not mistaken(and do correct me if im wrong) that the Indian army has alot of different types of tanks from T-72's, to T-90's to domestic. I was wanting to ask on how is India able to support all this since different tanks need diffrent parts and maintenance(like doesnt it get confusing? for parts and maintenance in general )

And the same thing for the IAF(which has too many differnt types of aircraft of various manufactures) ?

Thank you
 
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