Ukraine has been able to give as many options if not more than what Russia is currently doing and it is not garbage like some people may think, plus they are offering updated packages for alot less than what Russia is selling them for, even the U.S has purchased a handful of T-84`s. Heres a couple of other pictures of Ukrainian Armor, note the tank with the enlarged rear turret.
Indian Army News and Discussion
- Thread starter aaaditya
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No doubt... I would pit the Oplot against any tank currently in the Russian inventory with a good chance of success. If I had to choose one for protection that would be it.
I think Russia is already mad enough at Ukriane when they started ciphoning the gas line. Ukraine is already an avowed competitor of Russia and they won't let much of anything stand in their way to fight for that market. My question wasn't Ukraine but what India would do if Russia sold Pak tanks. Would India cancel their cooperation agreement?
FutureTank
Banned Member
In my view there is only a very small chance of this happening because of the totality of the Indian relationship.
It seems to me that you are still colouring your opinions based on the Cold War. The Ukranians are trying to resist big bad Russia, therefore its tanks must be better.
While no doubt there is talent and expereince in Ukraine for producing all sorts of weapon systems, the complexity of transition to market economy and participating in the defence market is daunting for aall FSU states.
Procurement decisions as you pointed out are not so simple, and in case of India they are complex not just because of the individual platforms involved, but the greater economic and political issues. Russia is supplying India's WHOLE STRUCTURE defence forces. Besides that BOTH need to consider long term strategic implications of developments in the Islamic world and China. Neither Ukraine, nor Belarus have these considerations, so their 'marketing' is more based on immediate needs. My analysis is based on this POV.
Can China become Pakistan's 'Russia' with Ukranian help? Aside from the Ukranian desire to integrate into EU (and NATO), I see this as a temporary 'need' for China, and an equally temporary 'want' for Pakistan. I could be wrong of course.
FutureTank
Banned Member
Its a weird thing, but an unidentified Israeli told me that almost every Israeli defence manufacturer is involved in India in one way or another, and its not just military projects. What is 'seen' in public forums is but a proverbial 'tip of the iceberg'. How this 'meshes' with Russian sales and cooperation is a very good question which I don't have an answer to.
FutureTank
Banned Member
Eckherl...please name me one successful tank design with participation of multiple countries. The cost of aircraft manufacturing has forced Europeans to collaborate, but tanks a different.
I honestly have my doubts on the ability of China, Pakistan and Ukraine to collaborate in such a venture.
Israel is also helping in upgrade projects for India`s combat aircraft also from what I was told, hey - we just signed a treaty for nuke power plants and technology transfers with India, could it be that we are trying to contain China, I wonder how Pakistan feels about this new arrangement between the U.S and India.
Al-Khalid is a joint venture between Ukraine, who supplies thermal sighting and diesel engines for the extreme temperatures, the rest of the tank comes from China and Pakistan.The venture seems to be working smoothly to a point where Pakistan seems to be satisfied at this point. As far as countries who have tried this approach I agree with you, but they have all worked in this type of process to come up with one tank for multiple countries, in this case you have three countries designing a tank for just one country. Heres a rear shot of the tank, interesting rear hull design.
FutureTank
Banned Member
I think you know
[sorry for one-liner]I base my opinion on the stance of Putin. He's the one who thinks we're still in a Cold War... go talk to him.
I don't think they are better except for the engines and a little extra protection.
FutureTank
Banned Member
I'm having trouble finding this manufacturer. Do you have more info/source?
What will the upgrade to the FCS entail.
It is hardly new because the previous Buran-Katherine (ESSA) was also made by Byelorussia with french Thomson IR camera.
FutureTank
Banned Member
It seems to me you are confusing parts of the equipment. The T-90 (and T-80) use 1A45T Irtysh FCS. So far as I know it is manufactured in Russia. There are other sub-systems connected to it, and the early Night Vision was the TO1-KO1 (thermal imaging sight) with Buran-PA/TPN-4-49-23 passive/active II sight, replaced later by ESSA (Thales Optronique Catherine-FC TI).
I am not familiar with the company you named, or which one of these devices it manufactures, which is why I asked for more information.
I could not find any info on Beltek. Apparently they were one of the companies in competition for upgradation of T-72 along with Israelis.
This is what the news report had to say.
T-90 order
I think the company is Beltekheksport. In English that became Beltek Exports (Guessing). Beltekheksport is Belarus equivalent of Rosobornexport, not the manufacturer. So the FCS may be from Peleng.
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Sorry, my mistake: ESSA - it is Byelorussian Buran sight with Thales (not Tompson) TI camera: http://peleng.by/En/index.php?option=com_docman&task=docclick&Itemid=44&bid=8&limitstart=0&limit=50 http://peleng.by/En/index.php?optio...&catid=70&order=dmdate_published&ascdesc=DESC
What thermal sighting Ukraine supply? Is it well-known Byelorussian sight with french TI-camera?
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FutureTank
Banned Member
Ok, my fault...kind of
I'm not really into aircraft and the firm is more 'famous' for avionic upgrades then tank FCS. The better transliteration from Russian is BelTehExport. Can be seen here (only in Russian) http://www.vpk.by/el_exib/
Cheers
Buron Thermal vision, due to the target auto tracking system.
FutureTank
Banned Member
I don't know if the Indian Army is getting Tunguska, but here is an interesting radar upgrade (half-way down the page) http://www.vpk.gov.by/photo/az_ros2006.htm
Cheers
Cheers